Gain stacking various pedals. Especially beyond two of them.

[KingsXJJ]

Sounds a lot like switching IR’s once you get the details right, maybe I am doing it wrong…

 

[Aelred]

I don't know anything abouit swtiching IR's, but often have more than 2 gain pedals in my sig chain. Fuzz, OD and Distortion, maybe some saturation from a Deco and/or Volante. I've also had "pre-amp" pedals as well or instead.

What's the issue?

 

[KingsXJJ]

I don't know anything abouit swtiching IR's, but often have more than 2 gain pedals in my sig chain. Fuzz, OD and Distortion, maybe some saturation from a Deco and/or Volante. I've also had "pre-amp" pedals as well or instead.

What's the issue?

Hoping for some variety in tone other that a slight shift in mid/high frequencies… sounds like just a simple mic placement change across pedals.

 

[Aelred]

I don't really know what to say. My Black Arts Toneworks Coven sounds nothing like my Spaceman Nebula, and combining the two is another tone or three again.

And different again with different amps and guitars.

YMMV

 

[KingsXJJ]

Thanks. I’m stacking various pedal to learn more about it. I’ve got the two pedals down pat but am still working on my idea of 3-4-5 low gain pedals cascading to create high gain. It’s a work in progress and may very well be a fool’s errand. I’m stilll trying to figure it out but my first pass was disappointing and as reported earlier. Key finding so far once you go past a certain gain stage at any single point… you get diminishing returns.

I’m looking for glass->glass->glass->glass->glass->tube amp compression->out. Looking for sweet high gain that remains open and jangly until you dig in to it and it roars.

Just like my namesake. Best tone ever IMO.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I like stacking. The only issue is you may have to compromise certain qualities for each pedal. One might sound really great at a certain gain level but as soon as you boost with another it becomes too much... and so on. You have to commit to something that may not be as optimal when they're used standalone.

 

[Aelred]

Thanks. I’m stacking various pedal to learn more about it. I’ve got the two pedals down pat but am still working on my idea of 3-4-5 low gain pedals cascading to create high gain. It’s a work in progress and may very well be a fool’s errand. I’m stilll trying to figure it out but my first pass was disappointing and as reported earlier. Key finding so far once you go past a certain gain stage at any single point… you get diminishing returns.

I’m looking for glass->glass->glass->glass->glass->tube amp compression->out. Looking for sweet high gain that remains open and jangly until you dig in to it and it roars.

Just like my namesake. Best tone ever IMO.

Cool! I like messing around with pedals.

YMMV, but I've not found stacking low gain pedals makes a decent high gain tone. That's why I have things like the Boss Angry Driver (BD-2 + Distortion), Black Arts Toneworks Coven (Colorsound OD + Fuzz) etc.

For example, something like my AmpTweaker BigRockPro. I cannot stack anything with the AmpTweaker TightDrivePro that makes it sound like the BigRock, not even a distortion. Sorta close - but when I use the BigRock its instant. One of my current sig chains is Skyboost > Phaser > OD > Nebula (Octave Blender) > Coven (Colorsound OD + Fuzz, which works at the end of the chain. Fuzz rarely does).

A SD-1 > BD-2 > OD-3 > TS9 chain didn't work for me - and I tried various orders of them. And a DS-1, of course.

Maybe try to Google "stacking overdrives". Brian Wampler and the like know more about it than I do.

 

[KingsXJJ]

A lot of folks are gonna hate me for this and call me deaf, but after running through a ton of pedals, switching order and gain, input and output levels, etc… I hook up a Nux Amp Core Studio with a Neunabor Echo and Immense MKII in the loop and it smokes whatever pedals I run straight in to a nice stereo IR. It’s not even close. I think it’s the addition of the power amp sim along with a bunch more going on in the preamp versus a pedal. But I’m not sure… the hunt goes on. I have no doubt the pedals sound great and wake up fed to an amp.

But I’m not doing that.

 

[Aelred]

I've never tried stacking physical pedals into a modeller or IR and have no idea how they would react. I don't use pedals with my Fender Mustang or Yamaha THR10. I use what's on them.

But my new Copperhead Nu-tube OD into my new Engl AE50 with real tubes sounds fantastic. Smokes the modellers something shocking.

To me. If you like M-vave and Nux into IR, go for it. I'll retire from this thread.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I've never tried stacking physical pedals into a modeller or IR and have no idea how they would react. I don't use pedals with my Fender Mustang or Yamaha THR10. I use what's on them.

But my new Copperhead Nu-tube OD into my new Engl AE50 with real tubes sounds fantastic. Smokes the modellers something shocking.

To me. If you like M-vave and Nux into IR, go for it. I'll retire from this thread.

The Copperhead is cool! Jump in any time!

 

[FuzzyAce]

I've never tried stacking physical pedals into a modeller or IR and have no idea how they would react. I don't use pedals with my Fender Mustang or Yamaha THR10. I use what's on them.

But my new Copperhead Nu-tube OD into my new Engl AE50 with real tubes sounds fantastic. Smokes the modellers something shocking.

To me. If you like M-vave and Nux into IR, go for it. I'll retire from this thread.

I use gain pedals into HX all the time. Copperhead is one, and also the others in the valvenergy line. OD-3 works well running into the Mystic Edge or Silk Drive, then into a Helix model like the Dripman or Whowatt for example. Fuzz Face, TS9, BK Tube Driver, all I've had pleasing results using with HX stomp or Native.

 

[Aelred]

I use gain pedals into HX all the time. Copperhead is one, and also the others in the valvenergy line. OD-3 works well running into the Mystic Edge or Silk Drive, then into a Helix model like the Dripman or Whowatt for example. Fuzz Face, TS9, BK Tube Driver, all I've had pleasing results using with HX stomp or Native.

Damn, I said I'd retire...

You stack low gain "pedals" to create your high gain tone? Cool!

 

[FuzzyAce]

Damn, I said I'd retire...

You stack low gain "pedals" to create your high gain tone? Cool!

I'm not a super high gain player most of the time, but when I want the heat I do really like a drive or two into an amp that's breaking up a bit. It just feels right to me.

 

[Aelred]

I'm not a super high gain player most of the time, but when I want the heat I do really like a drive or two into an amp that's breaking up a bit. It just feels right to me.

Again, cool. That's what I do most of the time.

But I can’t get the Clean channel on my Fireball 25 to sound like the Dirt channel, or High Gain, using low gain pedals. I really did have SD-1 > OD-3 > BD-2w > TS9 and swapped them around.

If I use a Wampler Dracarys or BAT Coven – that’s some gain. Just different from the Dirt channel gain. A low gain pedal into the Dirt channel is just a bit superfluous.

I can’t get the Bad Cat Black Cat to sound like it – unless I try to force the Dirt channel on it with pedals. But I do like the Dirt channel on the Black Cat for classic rock tones.

I just don’t think a Blues Junior or sim of one with some low gain pedals will get me to the high gain tones I sometimes revel in. Turn on the Fireball’s Lead Channel and there it is. Even with a Strat.

YMMV

 

[gearJunkie]

My daily driver pedal stack is ..

King Tone Fuzz
Brown Amplification Protein (dual overdrive)
Lovepedal Purple Plexi + Boost
Origin Effects Magma57 (overdrive + vibrato)

That's 6 drive stages stacked with vibrato slamming the input of my King Kong 50 or my Fillmore 50.

 

[Aelred]

So, that's getting high gain tones from low gain pedals? OK.

My next chain: Spaceman Sputnik III > Wampler Dracarys > BAT Quantum Mystic > AmpTweaker BigRockPro > BAT Coven > Orange Dark Terror

For low gain, of course. I really should stop looking at this thread...

 

[newpedals]

In a band mix (while playing live), the differences may not be too appearent.

I am a guitarist as well as a singer. I can't frequently look at my feet (pedals), so I put my overdrive pedals in increasing order of volume so that I will know that they are activated. Charlie Brown Volume lower than < volume of SD-1.

Please check if you have run into a "headroom" issue on your amp or your pedals. Experiment with the level/ volume knobs, also on your guitar.

Experts on this pedal will tell you about the technical reasons behind this phenomenon (which I don't understand), but there could also be some impedance issue. This is what a friend told me, because he was getting good tones from a multi effects unit for high gain. He said since he is using a single device, there is no issue of "imepdance mismatch" if he had used individual pedals with different impedances.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Sounds a lot like switching IR’s once you get the details right, maybe I am doing it wrong…

IRs are not gainstages, they do very different things then a drive pedal.
What they do have in common: they both apply their eq on a signal.
If a change in EQ is all you get from adding a gain stage…I suspect your individual gain stages are set to nuclear..and nuclear x2 is not perceived as a change in gain maybe?


Personally I never use more then 2 in front of whatever gain the amp provides.
More complicates too much for me…too many variables, gets unpredictable what does what, and I don’t hear upsides compared to manipulating a limited amount of gainstages:

I do always use EQs/cleanboosts to tickle the gainstages I use, either by simply increasing the input level to increase gain, or apply some EQ pre gain stage to change it sound/behavior. I use this method in both analog awa digital setups.
In a digital device that does “scenes”, one eq block can do different things depending on the selected scene, that makes it super flexible. One scene it might do a low cut for an overdrive sound fit for a neck pup, another scene that same stomp/eq might give me a mid and a gain boost for a lead sound.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I use gain pedals into HX all the time.

Same here. It's the foundation of all my dirt sounds.
And fwiw, if anything, pretty much all the HX amps take pedals like champs, only limited in the same way the real deal would be limited. I'm mentioning it explicitely because that's defenitely not the norm.

Apart from that, as far as gain/dirt stacking goes, I usually use a very lightly "hairy" amp (which sometimes may as well be completely clean) as a base sound and add whatever drives I feel like adding. For a little "more" I'm running an RC Booster clone (got an original and 3 different clones) in front which seems to work with just each and every following dirt box I ever tried with. The booster is set to add a bit of dirt on its own and also supplies a very light volume bump. For leads I usually add a very light compressor also pushing the volume a tad (but really just very little), this is adding some "meat" to the decay of the tone.

Fwiw, not much tap dancing required, I preselect the drive I want for any particular situation, the rhythm/lead switching (which is also adding an EQ to finetune the lead level and frequency response and some sort of spatial FX, typically a delay) is taken care of by either a loopswitcher or, as right now, by the GT-1000. I throw in the RC Boost clone as I see fit.
Incredibly flexible and easy to use.

Could post a sound example of how it all works.

And fwiw #2: Because I have all those pedals around, I obviously tried stacking things in mutliple ways. But I ended up with what I described above, so there's always one main dirt box with a bunch of utilitarian stuff placed around. Also makes working with your volume pot a lot easier.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Again, cool. That's what I do most of the time.

But I can’t get the Clean channel on my Fireball 25 to sound like the Dirt channel, or High Gain, using low gain pedals. I really did have SD-1 > OD-3 > BD-2w > TS9 and swapped them around.

If I use a Wampler Dracarys or BAT Coven – that’s some gain. Just different from the Dirt channel gain. A low gain pedal into the Dirt channel is just a bit superfluous.

I can’t get the Bad Cat Black Cat to sound like it – unless I try to force the Dirt channel on it with pedals. But I do like the Dirt channel on the Black Cat for classic rock tones.

I just don’t think a Blues Junior or sim of one with some low gain pedals will get me to the high gain tones I sometimes revel in. Turn on the Fireball’s Lead Channel and there it is. Even with a Strat.

YMMV

High gain with a Strat can sound awesome when done right!