Free updates - where does it stop?

[dronerstone]

Of course not. That’s just silly to do so.

You don't know me.

I walked there during the first Covid lockdown, about 6 hrs spent walking, just to buy a 1/8"-to-barrel adaptor for 3€, in order to power a newly-acquired OG 1993 Sansamp.

That was fun, seriously.

 

[paisleywookiee]

You don't know me.

I walked there during the first Covid lockdown, about 6 hrs spent walking, just to buy a 1/8"-to-barrel adaptor for 3€, in order to power a newly-acquired OG 1993 Sansamp.

That was fun, seriously.

I hope you were wearing a fitness tracker, because you definitely got some steps in that day!

 

[dronerstone]

I hope you were wearing a fitness tracker, because you definitely got some steps in that day!

No tracker, but yeah, I felt my feet for a couple days.

 

[Eagle]

Sorry, but your OP still has no basis in reality: "Line 6 always drops everything as soon as soon as the new product comes out" is simply not true historically. They stop production when the thing stops selling in sufficient numbers to turn a profit. Or like when the 500 went to the 500x, a part becomes unavailable. Not because a new product comes out. I mean: https://line6.com/pocket-pod/

This is rubbish. I have to fix this crap. Good luck with that bullshit encoder.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

This is rubbish. I have to fix this crap. Good luck with that bullshit encoder.

You having to fix the encoder, the encoder being rubbish, the encoder being bullshit, the encoder being crap, the Helix being crap, or anything else about Line 6 products that annoy you has nothing to do with the fact that history points towards the Helix continuing to be available and folks being able to get their rubbish broken bullshit encoder fixed/repaired by disgruntled repair techs for years to come following the release of whatever Line 6's next product is.

 

[Eagle]

You having to fix the encoder, the encoder being rubbish, the encoder being bullshit, the encoder being crap, the Helix being crap, or anything else about Line 6 products that annoy you has nothing to do with the fact that history points towards the Helix continuing to be available and folks being able to get their rubbish broken bullshit encoder fixed/repaired by disgruntled repair techs for years to come following the release of whatever Line 6's next product is.

I deal with getting parts for old Line6 products periodically and they are very quick to pull support for legacy products . You might not like this FACT but it is my experience. The Encoder is just an example of a part that is a very poor idea and WILL fail. There is obviously nothing like it on other products so once the left over stock has got that will be it. IME (30+ years a full time repair tech) this is particularly bad with Line 6 and Yamaha are nearly as poor for this. This is in the UK so your experience may be different . Who are you and what is your personal experience ?

 

[Orvillain]

 

[the-trooper]

There is obviously nothing like it on other products so once the left over stock has got that will be it.

Crazy question for the sake of crazy questions, would it be possible to change the joystick for a regular encoder and five buttons? Literally punch holes on the case and put buttons.
By the time that joystick is out of stock I doubt people will be very worried about how it looks, as long as it works.

 

[Lysander]

Crazy question for the sake of crazy questions, would it be possible to change the joystick for a regular encoder and five buttons? Literally punch holes on the case and put buttons.
By the time that joystick is out of stock I doubt people will be very worried about how it looks, as long as it works.

The Helix "joystick" is built around the exact same rotary encoder + push button part used for all other knob controls. Line 6's part number for it is 24-12-0022, and it can be easily found online for anything between $6 and $10. Plenty of drop-in replacements too.

You can also purchase a brand new LCD/control board for ~$200.

 

[Red Solo Cup]

 

[JiveTurkey]

Line 6 camp must not have been that much fun? I guess I had zero attraction to the Vetta/AXSys/whatever other turd we are having repair PTSD about because you couldn't move without tripping over a 5150/Recto wtever else that would certainly solve the problems at hand at that time

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I deal with getting parts for old Line6 products periodically and they are very quick to pull support for legacy products . You might not like this FACT but it is my experience. The Encoder is just an example of a part that is a very poor idea and WILL fail. There is obviously nothing like it on other products so once the left over stock has got that will be it. IME (30+ years a full time repair tech) this is particularly bad with Line 6 and Yamaha are nearly as poor for this. This is in the UK so your experience may be different . Who are you and what is your personal experience ?

The issue you raised in the post that got us bickering wasn't how quickly they pull support for legacy products, it was how quickly products BECOME legacy products.

But whatever...

 

[eggpl@nt]

The issue you raised in the post that got us bickering wasn't how quickly they pull support for legacy products, it was how quickly products BECOME legacy products.

But whatever...

That’s not how I interpreted @Eagle ’s comment. I interpreted it as, “when Helix 2 (or whatever) comes out, it will be difficult or impossible to service Helix based on past experiences.”

I didn’t read anything into their comments that suggested L6 products become legacy products quickly.

 

[Eagle]

That’s not how I interpreted @Eagle ’s comment. I interpreted it as, “when Helix 2 (or whatever) comes out, it will be difficult or impossible to service Helix based on past experiences.”

I didn’t read anything into their comments that suggested L6 products become legacy products quickly.

Manufacture of unique parts stops on day one and then the number dwindles until it is out of stock .

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

That’s not how I interpreted @Eagle ’s comment. I interpreted it as, “when Helix 2 (or whatever) comes out, it will be difficult or impossible to service Helix based on past experiences.”

I didn’t read anything into their comments that suggested L6 products become legacy products quickly.

That is exactly how I read Eagle's comment and your framing of it is just as inaccurate as his.

When Helix came out, the POD HD500x was still sold along side it for years and years and years. Even after Helix LT came out. Who was buying it, I have no idea. But it was still in the Line 6 catalog, being sold as a new device through dealers with a full factory warranty. Similarly, When HXFX came out the M5, M9, and M13 were all sold along side it for years and years and years.

Judging by this history, I would assume that Helix will continue to be sold (and thus necessarily supported) for as long as it can be sold at a profit, regardless of if/when Helix 2 is released.

All of that said, and we are wildly off topic here given we are talking about hardware, not software, digital processors are necessarily more like cars, where tube amps and guitars are more like houses. One buys a car knowing it will eventually either be irreparable or not worth repairing. If that is something that bothers you: don't buy any digital processor. From any manufacturer.

Helix has also been in the wild long enough that I think people should start being a lot more careful about buying used units, especially those with foot switches. It doesn't matter how well it's been taken care of or how good it looks, if the foot switches have been in heavy use for 6 or 7 years, there's a decent chance 1 of the 12 is going to fail in the next few years. Or maybe things look good on the outside but internal solder joints are starting to get annoyed by 7 years of thoughtless plopping on the floor three nights a week at rehearsal/gigs. Or that USB jack is getting awfully tired of having a cable removed/reinserted several times a week. Or the photos look good, but when you get it you can tell the joystick is slightly bent and now you've got to deal with some annoying repair tech grumble about Line 6 while you just wait for him to just do the job he signed up for - fix shit that is broken.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Manufacture of unique parts stops on day one and then the number dwindles until it is out of stock .

I mean, if that's your concern, don't buy anything but simple non-PCB tube amps? That's just the nature of digital processors these days. I cant imagine even Roland, with their proprietary chips, are making all the parts of their gear in-house.

 

[Eagle]

I mean, if that's your concern, don't buy anything but simple non-PCB tube amps? That's just the nature of digital processors these days. I cant imagine even Roland, with their proprietary chips, are making all the parts of their gear in-house.

You sound like your on the payroll

 

[eggpl@nt]

That is exactly how I read Eagle's comment and your framing of it is just as inaccurate as his.

When Helix came out, the POD HD500x was still sold along side it for years and years and years. Even after Helix LT came out. Who was buying it, I have no idea. But it was still in the Line 6 catalog, being sold as a new device through dealers with a full factory warranty. Similarly, When HXFX came out the M5, M9, and M13 were all sold along side it for years and years and years.

Judging by this history, I would assume that Helix will continue to be sold (and thus necessarily supported) for as long as it can be sold at a profit, regardless of if/when Helix 2 is released.

All of that said, and we are wildly off topic here given we are talking about hardware, not software, digital processors are necessarily more like cars, where tube amps and guitars are more like houses. One buys a car knowing it will eventually either be irreparable or not worth repairing. If that is something that bothers you: don't buy any digital processor. From any manufacturer.

Helix has also been in the wild long enough that I think people should start being a lot more careful about buying used units, especially those with foot switches. It doesn't matter how well it's been taken care of or how good it looks, if the foot switches have been in heavy use for 6 or 7 years, there's a decent chance 1 of the 12 is going to fail in the next few years. Or maybe things look good on the outside but internal solder joints are starting to get annoyed by 7 years of thoughtless plopping on the floor three nights a week at rehearsal/gigs. Or that USB jack is getting awfully tired of having a cable removed/reinserted several times a week. Or the photos look good, but when you get it you can tell the joystick is slightly bent and now you've got to deal with some annoying repair tech grumble about Line 6 while you just wait for him to just do the job he signed up for - fix s**t that is broken.

Sorry but as a repair tech I have lots of issues with line 6 as soon as they stop production.

I dunno. I feel like Eagle provided the clarification here. There’s a difference between simply releasing a new product (like Helix after HD500x or HX FX after M9) and releasing a direct successor that causes an older product to cease production.

Pointing to the coexistence of HD500 and Pocket POD and Helix as a counterpoint to this claim isn’t really relevant—they’re vastly different and don’t compete in the same space.

The pain point, as I read Eagle’s account, is when a successor causes an older product to cease production, making it harder to get unique parts for the now-replaced product.

I’m reading two different arguments between the two of you, not two sides of one argument.

 

[Eagle]

I dunno. I feel like Eagle provided the clarification here. There’s a difference between simply releasing a new product (like Helix after HD500x or HX FX after M9) and releasing a direct successor that causes an older product to cease production.

Pointing to the coexistence of HD500 and Pocket POD and Helix as a counterpoint to this claim isn’t really relevant—they’re vastly different and don’t compete in the same space.

The pain point, as I read Eagle’s account, is when a successor causes an older product to cease production, making it harder to get unique parts for the now-replaced product.

I’m reading two different arguments between the two of you, not two sides of one argument.

This is my point and some components (the ones that fail) run out quite quickly . The problem I have with the joystick push rotary is it is a problem built in. The Helix boxes without it are a far better bet and they do sound good.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

This is my point and some components (the ones that fail) run out quite quickly . The problem I have with the joystick push rotary is it is a problem built in. The Helix boxes without it are a far better bet and they do sound good.

@Digital Igloo at his next product team meeting: "hey guys. Helix is still selling like hotcakes, and all components are still widely available. Which makes next quarter the ideal time to stop production and stockpile 15 years worth of joysticks."