Free updates - where does it stop?

BenIfin said:
:giggle: Hey Orvillain !

All good ! Got a great laugh out of the first post .... had a much needed chuckle :)

Yep ... those UK prices are pretty darn f%cked as well.

Can only speak re:- my view / experience here in Oz ..... like I wrote above, when you see a modeler in use here live ... %99.99 of the time its a Helix or KPA ... along with a QC or Boss every now and then.

A few years ago ... in my view ... Fractal could pretty easily run the "we are the best modeler by a mile so you gotta pay" line and usually get away with it ..... nowadays, just using Helix as an example, the audio/feel differences are virtually, or actually, non-existent ... personal preferences notwithstanding of course.

I.m.h.o ..... Fractal can maintain their [relatively] "extreme" pricing "premium" for 2 reasons ..... they are a very small, closely held, almost fully vertically integrated company - which is the way doubtlessly Cliff wants it and more power to him ! .... but the result of that is very limited and erratic supply which means the "niche-Fractal-market-within-the-niche-modeler-market" buyers who "simply must" have a Fractal for whatever reason are - so far at least - willing to wait and pay through their a#se for one.

Its an amazing product ... but so too are the other top units ... people are increasingly, if not already, clicking on to that.

I mean .... FFS sake ... an Axe 3 + FC + EV1 will set you back [new] here $7,174 .... and if that's not bad enough, they you still got to buy a good Amp and good "FRFR" Speaker .... its f&cking hilarious - NOT !

Anyway ... its all just pontification on my part :)

My apologies for all the italicizing, underlining, both and "quotations" ... I'm on medications for it :)

Ben
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We get it.
 
madmarcus1960 said:
Fractal updates continue until a new generation of hardware(AXE2, AX8, FX8-->AXE3, FM9, FM3) is created. Even then they finalized a last FW, as they did with the AX8 prior to stating it was no longer being updated(that was after the AX3 release).
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It's cheaper to develop software than hardware. The updates are not a gift, it's a way to keep selling the same hardware over a much longer timespan and reduce the r&d cost related to new hardware.
 
luckymethod said:
It's cheaper to develop software than hardware. The updates are not a gift, it's a way to keep selling the same hardware over a much longer timespan and reduce the r&d cost related to new hardware.
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Nothing wrong with that in my book.

Plus digital modeler companies are also reliant on what DSP chips get released. There's not a whole lot of room for Fractal to move up from the TI chips in the Axe-Fx 3. There are ones that contain more of those same cores in one package, but the cost goes through the roof. Remember that these companies don't design their systems around the absolute top tier chip on the market, but the one that has the best cost-performance-availability ratio.

Makes me wonder if dedicated DSP cores might end up getting ditched for general purpose ARM processors in the future as they might be fast enough even for DSP tasks while being easier to get with potentially better development tools on offer. That seems to be the trend on the simpler modelers where afaik both Strymon and UA are using ARM processors now, though Strymon has not yet updated the Iridium to them but probably could.
 
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laxu said:
Makes me wonder if dedicated DSP cores might end up getting ditched for general purpose ARM processors in the future as they might be fast enough even for DSP tasks while being easier to get with potentially better development tools on offer. That seems to be the trend on the simpler modelers where afaik both Strymon and UA are using ARM processors now, though Strymon has not yet updated the Iridium to them but probably could.
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Korg already did that amongst many others, their new synths are powered by raspberry-pi cards.

www.raspberrypi.com

Electronic music icon Korg makes music with Raspberry Pi - Raspberry Pi

Think of synth music, racks of keyboards, or massive DJ rigs, and Korg comes to mind. Raspberry Pi is at the heart of some of its new synthesizers.
www.raspberrypi.com www.raspberrypi.com
 
luckymethod said:
Korg already did that amongst many others, their new synths are powered by raspberry-pi cards.
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Don't know about their flagship models, but Headrush's MX5 is built around a cheap Rockchip SoC with ARM+DSP cores.

DSP power capable of serious performance for guitar has been long commoditized by now.
 
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eggpl@nt said:
I understand the cost is exorbitant in your market. No argument there. But the math checks out and doesn’t seem exploitative or objectively unreasonable. Ultimately, the high price tag is due to the weak Australian dollar and the distributor markup.
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I bought the Axe 3 [1st gen] when it first came out for $4080 p.p.

At that *same* time the top-of-the-line Full Helix Floor and Rack + FC + Quality EXP were the *same* price as they are today => %0 change

The current Axe 3 [3rd gen] top-of-the-line is now %5090 => +%25 change.

Anyway ... I sense I/m flogging a dead horse here :horse :)

All the best,
Ben
 
BenIfin said:
I bought the Axe 3 [1st gen] when it first came out for $4080 p.p.

At that *same* time the top-of-the-line Full Helix Floor and Rack + FC + Quality EXP were the *same* price as they are today => %0 change

The current Axe 3 [3rd gen] top-of-the-line is now %5090 => +%25 change.

Anyway ... I sense I/m flogging a dead horse here :horse :)

All the best,
Ben
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I mean, even in the US the price direct from Fractal has changed here and there. Helix too. It was down to $2000 at one point and is $2300 now (albeit the Mk II). That’s a 15% increase without accounting for—wait for it—distributor markup. Helix is like $1700 now and I’m borderline positive it was $1500 at one point.

Also why are you comparing the price you paid for a Mark I (non turbo) to the current price of a Mk II Turbo? Of course that price is higher, regardless of AUD strength or distributor markup. The Turbo is more expensive in the States too (duh).

The Mk II (non Turbo) has increased 19% over your Mk I figure. I again point to that 15% increase in the States.

At least establish some kind of baseline. Your comparisons are all over the place. Once again, it all seems less drastic than you make it out to be once you compare apples to apples.
 
Orvillain said:
I think you might be being a little black and white there. I don't know what the mark-up is on an Axe FX III, but it aint going to be tiny.

Dealers will be around as long as companies don't want the infrastructural hassle of setting up their own supply chains.
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I have many friends in the business and quite a lot of products that you need to keep just aren’t worth it from a business perspective.
 
Eagle said:
I have many friends in the business and quite a lot of products that you need to keep just aren’t worth it from a business perspective.
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Yes agreed. But go and look at the products that G66 hold in stock, for example. They aint selling strings!
 
Kenan Thompson Reaction GIF
 
quadgear said:
Ok, I’ll bite. What’s the markup on strings?
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I have no idea of actual numbers but I would expect they are kind of like drinks at a restaurant - huge markup because they're the small stuff people buy regularly yet as one time purchases aren't that expensive. 100-200% figures could easily apply.
 
Free updates - where does it stop?
[AI]
The concept of free updates for software or services can vary depending on the specific company or product. However, there are generally a few factors that can influence where free updates might stop:
  1. Product Lifecycle: Companies often provide free updates for a certain period after the initial purchase or release of a product. This period is typically defined by the product's lifecycle, which can vary from a few months to several years. Once the product reaches the end of its lifecycle, the company may stop providing free updates and instead offer new versions or upgrades for a fee.
  2. Major Version Upgrades: Some companies offer free updates within a specific major version of their software or service. For example, updates within version 2.0 may be provided for free, but when version 3.0 is released, it might require a separate purchase or an upgrade fee. This approach allows companies to generate revenue from major updates while still providing incremental improvements and bug fixes within the existing version for free.
  3. Subscription Models: In the case of subscription-based services, the concept of free updates can be different. As long as the subscription is active, users typically have access to the latest updates and new features at no additional cost. However, if a user decides to cancel their subscription, they may lose access to future updates unless they renew or purchase a new subscription.
  4. Limited Support: Companies may choose to offer free updates for a specific period but limit the level of support provided after a certain time. This means that while users can still receive updates, they may need to pay for additional technical support or assistance.
Ultimately, the decision on where free updates stop lies with the company offering the product or service. It is influenced by factors such as business models, customer demand, development costs, and the need to generate revenue to sustain further development and support.
[/AI]
vomit GIF
 
laxu said:
I have no idea of actual numbers but I would expect they are kind of like drinks at a restaurant - huge markup because they're the small stuff people buy regularly yet as one time purchases aren't that expensive. 100-200% figures could easily apply.
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35% at list for some and 55% for others . Most bigger items you see in a music shop that are anything below SRP have only 15% on them.
 
laxu said:
I have no idea of actual numbers but I would expect they are kind of like drinks at a restaurant - huge markup because they're the small stuff people buy regularly yet as one time purchases aren't that expensive. 100-200% figures could easily apply.
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Back in the 90’s/early 00’s they were around $3.50-$4.50 a pack, so usually seeing around a 50% markup in stores.

FWIW, the markup on fountain drinks in restaurants is HUGE. When I left the restaurant business 5 years ago it was about $0.03 to fill a glass of soda.
 
Eagle said:
35% at list for some and 55% for others . Most bigger items you see in a music shop that are anything below SRP have only 15% on them.
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Yup, sounds right. People need to remember that once something gets to a retailer, it’s 30% usually off of MAP. So, for a Helix Floor it’d be $1259, give or take. But wait! Unless there’s a shipping deal, the retailer pays that. Oh, and then the buyer expects free shipping. Then, if it’s on Reverb, that’s another 5%+3.5%.

Then people bitch because they can’t get a great deal, but then “hmmm, I wonder why all the small shops are closed?”

Because people care only about the almighty dollar, and nothing more. Service doesn’t mean shit.
 
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