Fractal Talk

[BenIfin]

Awesome! Game changer! FAS modeling 10.0 - now even more muffled than before!

So you like it too:)

 

[duzie]

 

[Stone]

No Muffled sound in my FM9

 

[GTR37]

Plexi 100W High and JVM OD Orange are how I spent my evening.

The JVM orange OD1/OD2
Have become my recent favs for that 80s hot rodded Marshall

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Every time I used the real JVM’s I’ve loved them, and I found the new Bogren 410 to sound decent. I’ve always struggled with the Fractal ones for sounding too dark/muffled. I think some of the more recent tweaks (like adding channel volume) helped a bit but still…. I wish I loved it

 

[Orvillain]

Every time I used the real JVM’s I’ve loved them, and I found the new Bogren 410 to sound decent. I’ve always struggled with the Fractal ones for sounding too dark/muffled. I think some of the more recent tweaks (like adding channel volume) helped a bit but still…. I wish I loved it

Honestly, lately I'm feeling similar with Fractal reverbs. I can't get the same kind of high frequency splash wash that I can easily get from the RV-5, MercuryX, and now the Golden.

I'm wondering if Cliff is deliberately filtering stuff out to avoid aliasing, and we're losing valuable content in the process???

I know that might ruffle feathers. But it is just something I wonder.

I concur with you on the JVM - they're still not as bright and aggro as the real thing is.

 

[jay mitchell]

I'm wondering if Cliff is deliberately filtering stuff out to avoid aliasing, and we're losing valuable content in the process???

Highly unlikely. Reverbs are predominantly linear and won't give rise to internally-generated aliasing. Even with drive or compression added, the nonlinearity of a reverb will be much less than that due a high-gain amp or drive.

 

[- ★ - BROCKSTAR - ★ -]

Honestly, lately I'm feeling similar with Fractal reverbs. I can't get the same kind of high frequency splash wash that I can easily get from the RV-5, MercuryX, and now the Golden.

I'm wondering if Cliff is deliberately filtering stuff out to avoid aliasing, and we're losing valuable content in the process???

I know that might ruffle feathers. But it is just something I wonder.

I concur with you on the JVM - they're still not as bright and aggro as the real thing is.

If I recall right you like effects and what not before amp/cab right? Maybe that is what's blocking it? Maybe it works nicely in real world that way, but in fractal world probably works best after the amp/cab which is what many seem to do in modelers.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Honestly, lately I'm feeling similar with Fractal reverbs. I can't get the same kind of high frequency splash wash that I can easily get from the RV-5, MercuryX, and now the Golden.

I'm wondering if Cliff is deliberately filtering stuff out to avoid aliasing, and we're losing valuable content in the process???

I know that might ruffle feathers. But it is just something I wonder.

I concur with you on the JVM - they're still not as bright and aggro as the real thing is.

Tried quickly matching AxeFX's JVM OD1 Orange to Bogren's JVM:

https://samply.app/p/J4gA6u2bmS3f1btP11sM

No idea what settings Bogren used, but to get it close I have to crank the EQ quite a lot. Annoyingly I don't have the real amp to compare with, but I don't remember it being so dark that I need to crank the top end like this. Maybe someone with an AxeFX and a JVM410H can compare? Even with these settings, it doesn't have the same aggression in the upper mids and top end, and playing it feels less aggressive IMO.

 

[Mongillo19]

The fractal line has always sounded the most congested/darkest of all modeling units. For better or worse.

Every modeling unit has their own "personality" they add imo

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Tried quickly matching AxeFX's JVM OD1 Orange to Bogren's JVM:

https://samply.app/p/J4gA6u2bmS3f1btP11sM

No idea what settings Bogren used, but to get it close I have to crank the EQ quite a lot. Annoyingly I don't have the real amp to compare with, but I don't remember it being so dark that I need to crank the top end like this. Maybe someone with an AxeFX and a JVM410H can compare? Even with these settings, it doesn't have the same aggression in the upper mids and top end, and playing it feels less aggressive IMO.View attachment 43559

In fact...

If I change the default High Cut Frequency in the preamp block to 40kHz, these settings get closer.

https://samply.app/p/VrfZ4JEbDpPf6Qvf4Xwf

https://samply.app/p/iKuSSVJymAR1N173b7mw

4:10 here shows the usual sort of setting I’d go to on a JVM. Usually on Marshalls I really can’t crank the treble much past 6 before things get weird, and I don’t remember the JVM presence being one that needs to be cranked.

 

[GTR37]

In fact...

If I change the default High Cut Frequency in the preamp block to 40kHz, these settings get closer.

View attachment 43560https://samply.app/p/VrfZ4JEbDpPf6Qvf4Xwf

https://samply.app/p/iKuSSVJymAR1N173b7mw

Bogren I bet is using
Hi cut , low cut and likely an d multi band compressor
Trying adding and tweaking the Fractal MBC

***your second clip with the hi cut wide open sounds closer to his
Are you running the fractal through his irs
I know a lot of the Euro guys tend to favor a 421/57
Which is a brighter combination in general

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Bogren I bet is using
Hi cut , low cut [...]

When you have to raise the Bass and Treble on the FAS units quite drastically and disable the high cut in the preamp, this suggests exactly the opposite of what you're proposing.

Cliff even explained before why his modeling sounds darker than the competition. Has something to do with from where you tap the signal you want to measure - if I remember correctly in his case it's at the speaker jack. I don't have the technical knowledge to judge if this approach is right or wrong, I just know that I don't like the result. FAS modeling always sounded too dark and congested to me, even back when I had an AX8. Some firmware updates made a step in the right (bright) direction, others made two steps backwards.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Bogren I bet is using
Hi cut , low cut and likely an d multi band compressor
Trying adding and tweaking the Fractal MBC

There’s no way the Bogren plugin is doing all that. Sounds like straight amp to me.

And doing that in the Fractal would make it sound less like what I want it to, it would be taking it in the opposite direction.

 

[Mongillo19]

Not to like on the bagging Fractal train but when someone asks the pros and cons of digital vs analog, this is what I'm talking about:

Fractal: yeah if you toggle over to the speaker tab, adjust the impedance, high cut frequency, add in a MBC, etc it sounds good

Amp: plug in and get what is expected

Obviously there are more pros and cons to list (which have been listed over and over) but you get the point

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Some typical settings from youtubers (Leon, SDS Jon, Euge, Rabbea, Blake Mansfield etc). No one is really cranking the treble or presence much.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Not to like on the bagging Fractal train but when someone asks the pros and cons of digital vs analog, this is what I'm talking about:

Fractal: yeah if you toggle over to the speaker tab, adjust the impedance, high cut frequency, add in a MBC, etc it sounds good

Amp: plug in and get what is expected

Obviously there are more pros and cons to list (which have been listed over and over) but you get the point

This is it. I know the tones are there in the Fractal, but I only know what to tweak once I have the real thing side by side and I get stuck in getting my hands dirty. It sort of defeats the purpose for me if I need to use the real amp to be able to dial in Fractal how I want…

 

[GTR37]

There’s no way the Bogren plugin is doing all that. Sounds like straight amp to me.

And doing that in the Fractal would make it sound less like what I want it to, it would be taking it in the opposite direction.

I am not sure you would have to ask him , but I bet there is some post processing going on in the plug in

 

[Rock Chalk]

How many “IRs” are even in a DynaCab? Would removing or making the Legacy cabs optional even free up enough space for additional DynaCabs?

Good question…..that’s what I was “wondering” about.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I am not sure you would have to ask him , but I bet there is some post processing going on in the plug in

Why do you assume that? Processing just the amp DI alone would usually be a bad idea. And I don’t hear anything at all about the tone that suggests it’s processed.

Try those settings above with the rest of the amp at default and see if your guitars sound like the examples from Leon/Euge/Blake/Jon/Rabbea etc.