Fractal Talk

[norminal]

That's actually an interesting take on it. I've never thought about it that way.

I’ve been putting together an FPGA retro gaming system. Sort of the same concept.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

I’ve been putting together an FPGA retro gaming system. Sort of the same concept.

I've never heard of FPGA gaming systems before. Just having a look now and it looks pretty cool.

 

[iaresee]

I’ve been putting together an FPGA retro gaming system. Sort of the same concept.

And you'll make compromises and changes there as well because FPGAs can't replicate all hardware 1:1.

People seem to forget Fractal is a business, not a historical preservation society. It's not on Fractal's shoulders to preserve anything for any amount of time. They are as likely to go away, maybe even more so, than these sacred amplifies people seem to want them to preserve for all time.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

People seem to forget Fractal is a business, not a historical preservation society. It's not on Fractal's shoulders to preserve anything for any amount of time. They as likely to away, maybe even more so, than these sacred amplifies people seem to want them to preserve for

Probably in their interest to make them sound and behave better though. Who wouldn’t want better sounding models that are also more realistic?

The bar has been continually raising for years, largely in part due to Fractals ability to make accurate models. The JVM models make up quite a number of the available amps available in the unit, I think if they can be improved it’s a win for all.

 

[la szum]

Came home from a weekend of Momming for Mother's Day, and I see the kvethcing level
regarding the new FM3 update. WTF? I want to reach right through my computer, and do a
nut check on grown ass men. These are grown ass men, right?

No?

Ok.

My bad.

 

[yek]

Probably in their interest to make them sound and behave better though. Who wouldn’t want better sounding models that are also more realistic?

The bar has been continually raising for years, largely in part due to Fractals ability to make accurate models. The JVM models make up quite a number of the available amps available in the unit, I think if they can be improved it’s a win for all.

Do you have the Axe-Fx, FM9 or FM3?

 

[Frodebro]

These are grown ass men, right?

No ma’am, we’re musicians.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Do you have the Axe-Fx, FM9 or FM3?

Axe-Fx III

 

[AlbertA]

So @[Nathan] kindly reamped some DI's through his JVM and sent settings. All pretty typical stuff, OD1 Orange:

View attachment 43626

Amp Tone: https://samply.app/p/yXEcY9wp5olKpcUtvXry

My first AxeFX tone was eyeballing settings, trying to be as generous as I can to match the tone. If you put settings like this in, it sounds bloated and farty and not like how you'd expect a JVM.

JVM Fractal 1: https://samply.app/p/H2fL7vtcjV40mSoFVLYM

Just to prove the tonal difference is beyond pot tolerances and tapers, the next tone sets the presence and treble to both to 10. This ends up sounding a lot closer to the JVM at "typical" settings.

JVM Fractal 2: https://samply.app/p/ZN11CW4zVRNoot8YkTVF

Lastly, I did a tone that I just dialled totally by ear. This involved being more heavy handed with the amp EQ, changing the preamp LPF, changing the MV bright cap etc. It's not exact, but it's possible to get in the ballpark. But to get it to sound like a "typical" JVM, you need to get your hands dirty, AND use more extreme settings. I don't really associate the JVM as the kind of amp that needs weird settings or a lot of work to sound good, most people seem to use roughly the same kinds of settings.

JVM Fractal 3: https://samply.app/p/UoOW5WnNljRLE5C3KeHx

Eyeballing settings:

View attachment 43627

Treble+ Presence on 10:

View attachment 43628

Tweaking by ear (TOTALLY different mids, treble, presence settings as well as other deeper tweaks):

View attachment 43629

I've always felt the JVM models didn't really represent my experiences with the amps, particularly for sounding too dark/muffled. I can get close enough to be happy with some tweaks, but this only really works when having the real amp to reference against. I'd WAY prefer to be able to just dial the amp like the real thing and get typical tones with more ease.

The real JVM is an amp I think of as fairly bright/tight/twangy/aggressive. The Fractal model leans more fat/fuzzzy/dark/bloated unless you massage it into something else. It doesn't really remind me of a JVM unless you do those sort of adjustments.

All examples can be downloaded here:

https://samply.app/p/GNrA3eINKjjR1rG1ZOSK

Curious about the comparison. How is the real amp recorded? Mic'ed cabinet? Loaded down into an IR?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Curious about the comparison. How is the real amp recorded? Mic'ed cabinet? Loaded down into an IR?

Amp is recorded direct, IR applied afterwards. Same IR applied for Axe FX models. I tested several SIC’s to try and find something close.

 

[KingsXJJ]

They are popular and considered classics for a reason. And who is to say what Cliff says is an improvement is an improvement to someone else. You remove as much bias as possible by just being as accurate as possible.

Idk, it's weird to see this shift that "it's okay for fractal not to be 1:1"

I swear that's reason #1 or close to why people get the thing.

Nobody is actually reading a word I am saying.

 

[KingsXJJ]

You completely misunderstand. It isn't about the amps being built the best they possibly could be.

It is about the digital version of the amp matching 1:1 with the real physical thing.

If the amp was built badly, or doesn't sound good, then the model should match.

This philosophy would mean that approaching an Axe amp the same way as a physical amp, would give you EXACTLY the same experience.

Which is not really the case right now; and there is a lot of apocryphal knowledge required to get the best out of the Axe FX III.


Let's say you're like me, and you have a lot of experience with the JVM.

The Axe FX JVM does not sound as good as the real thing. It just doesn't. Thus - Axe3 isn't giving me the best possible tones.

I understand. Just because they are classic, sold tons and are revered doesn’t mean they can’t be better. If you are arguing that is the case we live in different worlds.

 

[norminal]

And you'll make compromises and changes there as well because FPGAs can't replicate all hardware 1:1.

Not all. But a lot of the cores do.

People seem to forget Fractal is a business, not a historical preservation society. It's not on Fractal's shoulders to preserve anything for any amount of time. They are as likely to go away, maybe even more so, than these sacred amplifies people seem to want them to preserve for all time.

Who’s calling Fractal a historical preservation society? I don’t think anyone forgets that they aren’t a business. That’s just hyperbolic nonsense.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I understand. Just because they are classic, sold tons and are revered doesn’t mean they can’t be better. If you are arguing that is the case we live in different worlds.

“better” is subjective though. If an amp has sold tons and is considered classic/revered, then if you just stick to modelling that as close as possible, it’ll match people’s expectation.

If you try and improve it, 50% might prefer it, 50% might dislike it, and 100% will say it’s not quite the same. IMO it’s fixing things that aren’t broken.

 

[KingsXJJ]

The same damn thing happens every time an idea is brought up that some people don’t like. Even though it can be implemented with ZERO EFFECT ON THEM. They don’t like it so they rail against it like it’s some sort of blasphemy and try to deny it for others.

Folks have been modding amps forever. I put forth the idea that maybe I’d like to see Cliff’s preferred mods as an OPTION on the Fractal gear.
He certainly knows amps but Oh…

THE HORROR!

Give me break. There’s no logic to the counter argument at all. So keep digging in your heels everyone.
You’re still wrong on this.

 

[Mongillo19]

Nobody is actually reading a word I am saying.

No I understand, I just don't think it makes sense and I'm trying to relay why I don't think it does.

 

[Mongillo19]

The same damn thing happens every time an idea is brought up that some people don’t like. Even though it can be implemented with ZERO EFFECT ON THEM. They don’t like it so they rail against it like it’s some sort of blasphemy and try to deny it for others.

Folks have been modding amps forever. I put forth the idea that maybe I’d like to see Cliff’s preferred mods as an OPTION on the Fractal gear.
He certainly knows amps but Oh…

THE HORROR!

Give me break. There’s no logic to the counter argument at all. So keep digging in your heels everyone.
Your still wrong on this.

Sorry we disagree. I wouldn't take it this personal. Sure, Cliff is more than welcome to add it his preferred mods, but I think models should be as accurate as possible before that starts happening. Just my opinion.

Also, Cliff can be wrong. Believe it or not

THE HORROR

You are absolutely within your right to prefer Cliff approved alterations to amps. However, to me that is wild and the whole reason you buy a digital device is to have accurate emulations of amps everybody knows and loves. And I get it, you are saying "why not both". That sounds great in theory but that also requires more bandwidth from Cliff and id much prefer him continuing to improve models to as close to 1:1 as possible. If you start deviating from that.....I honestly don't get the point. That's all I'll say on the matter.

 

[KingsXJJ]

“better” is subjective though. If an amp has sold tons and is considered classic/revered, then if you just stick to modelling that as close as possible, it’ll match people’s expectation.

If you try and improve it, 50% might prefer it, 50% might dislike it, and 100% will say it’s not quite the same. IMO it’s fixing things that aren’t broken.

Well if 50% prefer the change and 50% prefer the original and you can choose either then *checks notes*. That’s 100% of the folks getting what makes them happy.

It’s not an either/or situation at all.

 

[iaresee]

Who’s calling Fractal a historical preservation society? I don’t think anyone forgets that they aren’t a business. That’s just hyperbolic nonsense.

I can only take what you wrote literally…

I look at the Axe-FX as a preservation device. In the future, when all of the tubes are gone, and amps start failing, all of these amps will be preserved in digital form in the Axe-FX.

 

[norminal]

I can only take what you wrote literally…

That was a thought.

I don’t know how that turned into “People seem to forget Fractal is a business, not a historical preservation society.”