Fractal ICONS Plugin

[FuzzyAce]

F$ck......I could listen to that all day.........nice!

Awesome, thanks, you made my day!

Nice groove. I listened to the whole thing which I rarely do for clips.

Appreciate it! It's definitely lead guitar centric so thanks for hanging in there.
The swing groove is what got me locked in too, you can't help but tap your toe.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

Figured I'd post a clip in this thread if it's cool.
First track using ICONS. All improv, one take, some mindless wankage but I like it . I rushed the mix so don't judge too harshly haha.
The amps feel really great!

Tools were my white tele only into Fractal ICONS plugin. Left was a '59 J Vaughn preset, right was a Band-Commander. Center was the 'Hat Tip To Robin HT' preset, which is a '59 Bassguy Jumped with a Klon and Vibe.
Bass is my Fender Mustang into the Fender Rumble plugin in Studio Pro, I used the Super Bassman with 8x10 cab.
Drums are SD3.

Jammed it twice! Great stuff!

 

[paisleywookiee]

Figured I'd post a clip in this thread if it's cool.
First track using ICONS. All improv, one take, some mindless wankage but I like it . I rushed the mix so don't judge too harshly haha.
The amps feel really great!

Tools were my white tele only into Fractal ICONS plugin. Left was a '59 J Vaughn preset, right was a Band-Commander. Center was the 'Hat Tip To Robin HT' preset, which is a '59 Bassguy Jumped with a Klon and Vibe.
Bass is my Fender Mustang into the Fender Rumble plugin in Studio Pro, I used the Super Bassman with 8x10 cab.
Drums are SD3.

That fucking smokes!!

 

[Whizzinby]

I really think this is so far from the truth. Guitarists by and large want HW modellers, they could sell boatloads of plugins for $29 if they wanted and it would funnel towards more HW sales. The number of people that are buying an axefx when they really just want plugins is miniscule. The first thing loads of plugin users ask is “when is the HW coming?”

Yeah I’ve never really understood why that was a talking point. If plugins cannibalized hardware sales then how have Line 6 and Neural managed to do both? L6 sells native for $400 and they have had no issues pushing hardware.

It’s just a different consumption method for users and a new revenue stream for companies. Win-win.

 

[Chocol8]

Yeah I’ve never really understood why that was a talking point. If plugins cannibalized hardware sales then how have Line 6 and Neural managed to do both? L6 sells native for $400 and they have had no issues pushing hardware.

It’s just a different consumption method for users and a new revenue stream for companies. Win-win.

To add to the list, NAM is free with more and more hardware coming out, and IK hasn't struggled to sell Tonex hardware with a cheap plugin option. I doubt ICONS is going to kill Fractal hardware sales at any price.

 

[RiffDuck]

The plugins will help create brand loyalty. When people who are new to the FAS brand and have started with the plugins decide it’s time to move to hardware or can eventually afford it, they tend to want whatever will provide them with the same tones they’re already used to. So you get the plugin market as well as new hardware customers down the road. It’s a no-brainer.

 

[KFF]

So you get the plugin market as well as new hardware customers down the road.

Particularly if new hardware is interchangeable with ICONS.

-Offload processing while mixing
-Studio to stage sounds

yes

 

[[Nathan]]

Icons is a side quest, bring on fractal native

 

[Melodioso]

Icons is a side quest, bring on fractal native

But I don’t think they’ll ever release it.

Their product positioning is already very clear:

• You want the best with every feature and bell & whistle: buy the Axe-Fx III
• You want most of that in a floor format: buy the FM9 / FM3
• You want the essentials: buy the AM4 / FM4

They don’t want their native products (ICONS) to compete with - or cannibalize - hardware sales. If they did, ICONS would be priced and packaged very differently. As it stands, ICONS feels like an on-ramp: a way to let new users taste “Fractal quality,” then eventually upsell them into the hardware ecosystem.

Financially, buying multiple ICONS packages quickly stops making sense. Fractal knows that—and it’s certainly intentional.

A full Fractal Native would run directly against their strategy, which is still fundamentally centered on selling hardware units.

 

[FuzzyAce]

A full Fractal Native would run directly against their strategy, which is still fundamentally centered on selling hardware units.

I do believe a full native will be an option one day. It could be 5 yrs from now though. I think getting in the plugin space the way they have is smart. There's no reason putting all the eggs in one basket from the get go (even though I wished for it initially). They can keep the price way down like this because not everybody wants or needs the full lineup, but it's a way to get into the FAS world without a bigger financial commitment.

 

[[Nathan]]

I do believe a full native will be an option one day. It could be 5 yrs from now though.

Yeah agreed. They can scoop up the user base release after release with the icon stuff. Hopefully it does well and they can work out if a full blown fractal native makes sense to them (I think it will).

If they have some sort of loyalty discounts and hopefully keep it all In one and not 12 different plugins I might grab a couple. But if they’re all separate amp plugins ontop of delay, reverb and other effect only plugins it’s going to be a costly endeavour. I’d personally rather get the hardware at that point

More options for consumers is a good thing so hopefully this stream works out for them. It’s a step towards full fractal native.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

You want the best with every feature and bell & whistle: buy the Axe-Fx III

Until a HW AxeFX can reamp 20-30 tracks at once, all with being able to quickly edit, automate parameters, and easily integrate other plugins, then arguably my most important bells and whistles are going to be missing on any HW.

The main bells and whistles of the HW to me are the I/O, the DSP, a large dedicated display and controls, the external controllers, and portability. None of these are relevant for a plugin user. Trying to position one platform as the superior flagship choice doesn't make any sense, and tbh I think the newer Fractal products reflect this. An AM4 or VP4 isn't inferior to an AxeFX on a sonic level. You are just swapping the trade offs from each platform to have the most optimal performance possible. For some users an AxeFX IS optimal. For many users, it is too lopsided towards features that aren't needed, and thats why it's smart to diversify the product offering.

 

[Chocol8]

They don’t want their native products (ICONS) to compete with - or cannibalize - hardware sales.

I think this concern is way overblown. I see them as different products with different use cases. Some will want one, some will want the other, many will want both, and very few (IMHO) will be indifferent and just choose the cheaper option.

Mirror makes a great case for pluggins in the professional or home recording environments. Hardware is usable but not ideal in that situation, and the limitations might lead you to a competitors software.

On the other hand, hardware is king for live use. Yes, you could use a laptop live, but I would rather hammer bamboo spikes under my toe nails.

It's not just theory, the market has shown us that where a vendor offers both, a lot of people use both and hardware sales don't suffer, and might actually benefit. The flip is definitely true. Tonex blew past NAM for a while after the hardware came out, and widespread interest in NAM didn't really take off much until hardware started to become a reality. From the big dogs, Native never killed Helix, and QC didn't hurt and wasn't by NDSP plugins except for the whole PCOM debacle...which in itself points to the demand by many to have both.

 

[sevenagn]

They don’t want their native products (ICONS) to compete with - or cannibalize - hardware sales.

I think this is actually the opposite. Just see Neural DSP. People assume QC is good because their plugins sound good. They got a lot of sales because of that.

 

[Mongillo19]

I think this is actually the opposite. Just see Neural DSP. People assume QC is good because their plugins sound good. They got a lot of sales because of that.

Imo Icons is a little different than Helix Native and the NDSP plugs. Definitely closer to Helix Native though, maybe even their Metallurgy line.

The NDSP plugs aren't the same exact amp models that you can find on the QC unit. They usually have unique combos, effects, and more recently, tied to an artist. It's not like when you buy a NDSP plug you are buying the QCs Dual Rec model.

Helix Native is the entire hardware lineup but in plugin form. Which is what I really wanted Icons to be. Even at full price at $399 you get all the amps effects etc of a Helix Hardware unit.

Now we get to Icons. You are getting the exact models down the hardware, similar to Helix Native, but at a massive cost. If the trend holds, you are going to spending close to $3000 to have the equivalent of Helix Native. Their pricing doesn't make sense compared to the competition or even the hardware they've put out. I'm surprised so many on here are cool with the pricing model they've introduced.

 

[yek]

Helix Native is the entire hardware lineup but in plugin form. Which is what I really wanted Icons to be. Even at full price at $399 you get all the amps effects etc of a Helix Hardware unit.

Now we get to Icons. You are getting the exact models down the hardware, similar to Helix Native, but at a massive cost. If the trend holds, you are going to spending close to $3000 to have the equivalent of Helix Native. Their pricing doesn't make sense compared to the competition or even the hardware they've put out. I'm surprised so many on here are cool with the pricing model they've introduced.

Buying the enormous inventory of Fractal Audio amps, cabs and effects at a price of a single Strymon BigSky pedal? Dream on.

 

[Mongillo19]

Buying the enormous inventory of Fractal Audio amps, cabs and effects at a price of a single Strymon BigSky pedal? Dream on.

Buying everything from ICONS for $3000 when I can get it for $700 in the AM4? Dream on.

And you make it seem like Helix Native isn't plentiful and it can be had for $50/$100 at times. Not saying ICONS should be $50/$100 but the pricing is absurd. I really don't know how some of you are justifying it.

You really need to be interested in only a select few amps in the fractal universe to make it make sense.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Buying everything from ICONS for $3000 when I can get it for $700 in the AM4? Dream on.

And you make it seem like Helix Native isn't plentiful and it can be had for $50/$100 at times. Not saying ICONS should be $50/$100 but the pricing is absurd. I really don't know how some of you are justifying it.

You really need to be interested in only a select few amps in the fractal universe to make it make sense.

To be fair, pricing for Helix Native is a steal. I got it for $99 for getting a stomp. That's a ridiculous value. But that doesn't mean every brand should feel they have to do it that low. Line 6/Yamaha was able to pull that off so kudos to them. Not sure FAS could pull the same off with their entire suite that makes financial sense, unless it was a discounted add-on partial suite for buying a hardware unit.

 

[Mongillo19]

To be fair, pricing for Helix Native is a steal. I got it for $99 for getting a stomp. That's a ridiculous value. But that doesn't mean every brand should feel they have to do it that low. Line 6/Yamaha was able to pull that off so kudos to them. Not sure FAS could pull the same off with their entire suite that makes financial sense, unless it was a discounted add-on partial suite for buying a hardware unit.

I agree and as I stated, I don't think Fractal should make it $100 (although I absolutely think they should offer a discount for hardware users)

You need to be able to have the full suite for less than $700 imo. Otherwise I don't get the point. Even if I loved plugins and the workflow, I'm not sure how you could justify spending more for less and not even getting hardware with it. It's not like you can't reamp with the AM4, right?

But with Yek saying "AlL tHe FaS StuFF fOr tHe PRiCe Of a StRyMon, YeAh RIgHt BudDY"

Okay, how about a little less than 2 Strymon pedals because that's what you get with the AM4

 

[Chocol8]

I agree and as I stated, I don't think Fractal should make it $100 (although I absolutely think they should offer a discount for hardware users)

You need to be able to have the full suite for less than $700 imo. Otherwise I don't get the point. Even if I loved plugins and the workflow, I'm not sure how you could justify spending more for less and not even getting hardware with it. It's not like you can't reamp with the AM4, right?

But with Yek saying "AlL tHe FaS StuFF fOr tHe PRiCe Of a StRyMon, YeAh RIgHt BudDY"

Okay, how about a little less than 2 Strymon pedals because that's what you get with the AM4

For someone who wants to work with plugins on a larger scale, an AM4 is not a substitute. Not even close. For a home player who just want to jam sure, but they shouldn't need the entire suite.

Someone in a professional studio environment might want the entire suite and might be willing to pay more than the hardware in order to get it.

I don't know what the right price is, but consider the cost of software development (not cheap) can be spread out over a smaller number of premium users or a larger number of budget consumers or somewhere in between. There may or may not be a price/volume point that will make it profitable for Fractal, but pretending you know where that price point is better than Cliff and company is rather foolish. You don't know anywhere near enough to make that judgement.