dean701
Roadie
- Messages
- 904
@MirrorProfiles has some excellent comparison videos on this site for a lot of amps vs vsts. The big reveal is that there are a lot of competitive plugins that can perform the job well.
Fractal ICONS Plugin
- Thread starter CorrosiveMatter
- Start date
Ed DeGenaro
Shredder
- Messages
- 2,232
That’s the audio assault stuff?
![[Nathan]](/data/avatars/m/0/613.jpg?1726885163){kind=avatar}
[Nathan]
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,308
I think that's the first time I've ever heard his name... he IS "Berried Alive" haha
jellodog
Rock Star
- Messages
- 5,152
Sir, could I trouble you for a Binson recommendation?
MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
- Messages
- 5,381
£30 or so on PluginBoutique atm:
Pulsar Echorec - Magnetic Disk Delay Plugin
Pulsar Echorec is a high quality audio plugin, available in VST, VST3, AU and AAX, that emulates the iconic Binson Echorec 2 magnetic disk delay.
pulsar.audio
This one is cool too:
Echoes T7E - Legendary Binson® Echorec® Plugin (VST, AU, AAX, CLAP)
Echoes T7E is a faithful simulation plugin of the iconic Binson® Echorec® T7E, rare vintage analog all tube magnetic echo made in Italy in the early '60s. Available as VST2, VST3, AU and AAX plugins!
www.audiority.com
Soundtoys Echoboy has Binsonette mode which I'd say is more "inspired" by an Echorec rather than a model. UAD have had a trademark for one forever but its never surfaced.
MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
- Messages
- 5,381
crosspost from Fractal forum:
I'd love to have toggle buttons for going through amp models. Im just firing up an old track and with so many Fender amps available, it's hard to know what is going to work. To flip from one amp to the next, you have to click a few times and move the mouse around. Arrows would make this way faster. You wouldn't want to do this on an AxeFX where scrolling through amps can go through TOTALLY different amp types. Here they are more curated and its quite feasible that any of them could work on a given track.
I'd also love on the cab block to be able to hold a modifier to drag the mic position more granularly. It would also be good to be able to click and drag the text boxes for position as well as the actual position graphic. It's currently quite hard to accurately adjust distance without moving position. If you can drag the text boxes, it ensures you only move the intended axis.
I'd like to see a bit more exposed to the user as far as phase, timing and MPT. Blending doesn't feel particularly realistic to me. It all feels very convenient and dumbed down but at the expense of losing a more realistic workflow. To hear what I mean, try blending mics together and move the position around, both in distance and horizontally. I get why it is the way it is, but it does not feel or sound natural to me. Many sounds are simply not achievable.
It would be great to be able to lock parameters and blocks in place via right clicking. Both for auditioning presets, and also just when dialling things in.
I think there may be a with the Room feature on the cab block. When on a mono instance, blending it in sounds very comb filtery. If you do the same on a stereo track and pan both channels to mono. It would be great to have a mono option for this where it's only processing a single channel for the room mic, rather than doing L and R and summing them.
When duplicating the plugin to another instance, the "do not show this screen at startup" setting is being ignored and it's showing every time. There's also no way within the plugin to save the default window size as default (this can be done with a DAW factory setting but it would be great if this was handled by the plugin too, then it applies across DAW's and standalone).
The tuner feels janky graphically. I'd love to have the strobe mode, but also for the ballistics to be smoother. Submission Audio LockOn does a really solid job at displaying strobe style and needle type tuning in the same view.
The delays are too basic. Not just with the models available, but also with the parameters themselves. There are also too few reverb types. It needs some curveball options, not just meat and potato spring/room/hall. IMO the parameters are also too dumbed down for the reverbs.
There should be more graphics and knob styles across all the different block types. This goes for cabs and mics too.
I'd love to have toggle buttons for going through amp models. Im just firing up an old track and with so many Fender amps available, it's hard to know what is going to work. To flip from one amp to the next, you have to click a few times and move the mouse around. Arrows would make this way faster. You wouldn't want to do this on an AxeFX where scrolling through amps can go through TOTALLY different amp types. Here they are more curated and its quite feasible that any of them could work on a given track.
I'd also love on the cab block to be able to hold a modifier to drag the mic position more granularly. It would also be good to be able to click and drag the text boxes for position as well as the actual position graphic. It's currently quite hard to accurately adjust distance without moving position. If you can drag the text boxes, it ensures you only move the intended axis.
I'd like to see a bit more exposed to the user as far as phase, timing and MPT. Blending doesn't feel particularly realistic to me. It all feels very convenient and dumbed down but at the expense of losing a more realistic workflow. To hear what I mean, try blending mics together and move the position around, both in distance and horizontally. I get why it is the way it is, but it does not feel or sound natural to me. Many sounds are simply not achievable.
It would be great to be able to lock parameters and blocks in place via right clicking. Both for auditioning presets, and also just when dialling things in.
I think there may be a with the Room feature on the cab block. When on a mono instance, blending it in sounds very comb filtery. If you do the same on a stereo track and pan both channels to mono. It would be great to have a mono option for this where it's only processing a single channel for the room mic, rather than doing L and R and summing them.
When duplicating the plugin to another instance, the "do not show this screen at startup" setting is being ignored and it's showing every time. There's also no way within the plugin to save the default window size as default (this can be done with a DAW factory setting but it would be great if this was handled by the plugin too, then it applies across DAW's and standalone).
The tuner feels janky graphically. I'd love to have the strobe mode, but also for the ballistics to be smoother. Submission Audio LockOn does a really solid job at displaying strobe style and needle type tuning in the same view.
The delays are too basic. Not just with the models available, but also with the parameters themselves. There are also too few reverb types. It needs some curveball options, not just meat and potato spring/room/hall. IMO the parameters are also too dumbed down for the reverbs.
There should be more graphics and knob styles across all the different block types. This goes for cabs and mics too.
GurthPeedler
Newbie
- Messages
- 14
Ironically I'm not a fan of his band or music so I wasn't sure whether to mention him at all lol. But his plugin is decent for the price, and I like whatever the amps are going for there
Jkist7
Roadie
- Messages
- 187
I do agree that the idea of a "central standalone container" where you can mix and match different aspects of plugins (a la Neural DSP) is a cool idea.
However, it would have to be done very well, and in a very specific way. An experience like we are describing already exists in Amplitube. They basically have a container that technically has everything in it. However, I find the user experience to be quite poor. Its pretty overwhelming, sometimes its hard to know what you own and what you don't own, it can be hard to navigate, etc. Its part of the reason I moved away from it.
I think the real magic in the NDSP stuff IS the fact they are limited in scope, and built for specific purposes. Its been well proven and documented that imposing limitation actually makes creativity easier. I think whether people recognize it or not, this is one of the subtle things that make NDSP plugins so inspiring to use. They are extremely straightforward to use and simple to understand.
Not to mention they have some of the best UX / UI in the business. I know they stole ideas from the likes of Line6 and others, but the end result is more than impressive, and other companies have copied their UX verbatim because its so good.
Anyways, all this to say I get the "silo'd" approach. I think it works well if its priced right. I also get users wanting to mix and match. With what plugins have been ported to QC, you can technically do this mix and match thing already on the hardware. The problem is its tedious.
That's why the concept itself isn't the issue, it is entirely the execution of it. I love Fractal stuff, but given their history of mediocre UX, I wouldn't bet on them being able to pull it off. Would love to be proven wrong.
However, it would have to be done very well, and in a very specific way. An experience like we are describing already exists in Amplitube. They basically have a container that technically has everything in it. However, I find the user experience to be quite poor. Its pretty overwhelming, sometimes its hard to know what you own and what you don't own, it can be hard to navigate, etc. Its part of the reason I moved away from it.
I think the real magic in the NDSP stuff IS the fact they are limited in scope, and built for specific purposes. Its been well proven and documented that imposing limitation actually makes creativity easier. I think whether people recognize it or not, this is one of the subtle things that make NDSP plugins so inspiring to use. They are extremely straightforward to use and simple to understand.
Not to mention they have some of the best UX / UI in the business. I know they stole ideas from the likes of Line6 and others, but the end result is more than impressive, and other companies have copied their UX verbatim because its so good.
Anyways, all this to say I get the "silo'd" approach. I think it works well if its priced right. I also get users wanting to mix and match. With what plugins have been ported to QC, you can technically do this mix and match thing already on the hardware. The problem is its tedious.
That's why the concept itself isn't the issue, it is entirely the execution of it. I love Fractal stuff, but given their history of mediocre UX, I wouldn't bet on them being able to pull it off. Would love to be proven wrong.
- Messages
- 7,228
With UI It’s a double edged sword though.
I think because FAS doesn’t have the same presentation layer as Neural, UA, or STL, that it makes less sense to do their style of heavily curated releases.
The fact that Neural can succeed by doing focused releases of a specific artist or amp, doesn’t mean that approach will land the same way for FAS when you remove a significant factor in what makes those releases resonate with people.
Id much rather FAS not even try to play that game and just charge a premium for a more comprehensive approach, rather then nickle and dime our way to the same end price and leave us having to micromanage a bunch of random pieces to get there. If anything, that is a better market angle for them than trying to win on presentation and UI.
Someone on the FAS forum brought up a good point i thought. Nobody complains about AxeEdit being too cumbersome to manage hundreds of amp models, so it’s not any less manageable or productive on a plug that you’ll interface with in largely the same way.
I think because FAS doesn’t have the same presentation layer as Neural, UA, or STL, that it makes less sense to do their style of heavily curated releases.
The fact that Neural can succeed by doing focused releases of a specific artist or amp, doesn’t mean that approach will land the same way for FAS when you remove a significant factor in what makes those releases resonate with people.
Id much rather FAS not even try to play that game and just charge a premium for a more comprehensive approach, rather then nickle and dime our way to the same end price and leave us having to micromanage a bunch of random pieces to get there. If anything, that is a better market angle for them than trying to win on presentation and UI.
Someone on the FAS forum brought up a good point i thought. Nobody complains about AxeEdit being too cumbersome to manage hundreds of amp models, so it’s not any less manageable or productive on a plug that you’ll interface with in largely the same way.
MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
- Messages
- 5,381
At first Fender wouldn’t have been my first choice for a Fractal suite of plugins, but as soon as I started using them it dawned on me that these sounds are EXACTLY the ones I like to dump to a plugin. Anything clean/crunch are the kind that I CBA to bust an amp out for. It’s also a massive gap in my amp and cab collection, and somewhere where the extra mic choices work well.
Enjoying it a lot. I really hope this is just the beginning and Fractal really go all out for the format. The potential is there, and it feels like there is a serious determination to make these great. It’ll be a real marker when we see Fractal do something innovative and out there with plugins that can only exist in that medium. there may be some mixing instances where latency is not an issue, or where step sequencing or MIDI can just have at it.
Maybe we’ll see a full on mod workbench where you can build pedals or amps to load into the AxeFX. Who knows.
Enjoying it a lot. I really hope this is just the beginning and Fractal really go all out for the format. The potential is there, and it feels like there is a serious determination to make these great. It’ll be a real marker when we see Fractal do something innovative and out there with plugins that can only exist in that medium. there may be some mixing instances where latency is not an issue, or where step sequencing or MIDI can just have at it.
Maybe we’ll see a full on mod workbench where you can build pedals or amps to load into the AxeFX. Who knows.
- Messages
- 7,228
Yeah I think maybe had this been paired with a chug head offering I might have skipped it, so it’s been kind of fun to deep dive a lot of amps I wouldn’t have turned to otherwise.
I’ve always just kind of defaulted to a Deluxe or Twin and moved on, but the Bassman variants have been a bit of a revelation, and there is a Tweed/Phaser preset in there that reminds me of No Quarter and I just kind of zone out for stretches on it, playing some of the worst Hack Zepplin Intro music known man.
Its def showed me more stuff to mess with when using the big box and it’s so much fun to be able to pull up random projects and just slap this on there and tweak away.
...I just kind of zone out for stretches on it, playing some of the worst Hack Zepplin Intro music known man.
The Happy Place!
Fun
MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
- Messages
- 5,381
Yep, this has been a very big thing for me so far with it too. I’m going for different sounds than I ever have with the FM-3 or Axe FX and the process of getting there is different and arguably more fun.
No patching cables on a grid or assigning in’s and outs. Way fewer lists and menus and going back and forth. Having less choice actually makes me focus a little more on whats there - if I see tons of amps I just gravitate to the same old ones.
It’s been interesting because some of my main takeaways from it aren’t things that I expected.
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People love the grid.
I bet people will HAPPILY forget the grid as this evolves... and if it ties in cleanly with future hardware.
Thanks for your detailed experiences... and for making informed suggestions at this early stage.
Jkist7
Roadie
- Messages
- 187
Great points. I do think the hardware editors automatically get free points because the editing experience on the hardware itself can be so arduous. That means anything that's even slightly better will feel like a big improvement.
Still though, you are absolutely right. I have an FM3, and working in the desktop editor is a joy overall. Never had a major issue.
Downloaded..
- Messages
- 1,245
Same here. There's a lot of players in the "I just plug my pedalboard into a clean amp" category who will get a kick out of this. Also the Vibroverb, Super Reverb and Bassman variations are nowhere near as represented as 5150/Recto variations yet they have a similar devoted user base.
James Freeman
Rock Star
- Messages
- 4,379
*click* Noice.
MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
- Messages
- 5,381
My god, TOP threads about ICON are the worst discussions imaginable
