FM3 as audio interface?

[DrewJD82]

I don't think anyone is too interested in the back and forth anymore, but rather just the info re: latency and latency reporting, but to be clear: for me the bad part about their response was that they didn't actually say they will fix it in the FM3, but instead said that addressing it "would need to take effort away from other areas".

So I don't think it's a matter of them lying or something like that, not at all, but just of it being too difficult of a problem for them to guarantee a fix in the FM3 at all, even though they'd like to fix it (of course).

Fractal seems like an honest company to me and they have a great track record of addressing issues, of course, and again the FM3 is a high quality pro product, no doubts there. So I hope a fix comes, but the response seemed to imply that it may not or at least is not a priority.

Here's the quote again for convenience:


I think everyone here just wants to know the situation since many people, including the OP, do use it as an audio interface or would be interested in using it in that way in at least some contexts, and that everyone here, whether they own it or not, thinks the FM3 is a great product and that Fractal is a good company.

It's great that we have some numbers now that confirmed suspicions both about latency reporting and actual RTL and, through the thread Orvillain linked to, can directly compare them to other audio interfaces too. Hopefully we get more to see if they're relatively consistent across setups.

I know modding can be rough, so while we disagree here, thanks for your work, I appreciate it.

I actually don't disagree with any of that post, including the ambiguous nature of the statement. I can only speculate that they don't have a final answer on a solution themselves at the time and don't want to go too far in either direction with what they say.

Like I said, I'll re-format posts in here to make all the number reporting easier to access if you all decide that's worthwhile. I'm fairly illiterate with this stuff and after several times of trying to sort through what's latency related to the DAW and what's latency related to blocks, I give up. My head is focused on totally different numbers today, but I think it'd helpful if someone made a post as an overall breakdown describing which latency is which and what the known methods are for correcting anything there is. I'll stick it at the front and any additional reporting can be formatted after.

 

[aflynt]

FWIW I just re-"measured" my FM3T (following this post's instruction) with my main PC and got a consistent 298 samples offset latency (~6.2ms).
Same offset worked within all ASIO buffer sizes I tried, only varied with the Fractal global setup USB buffer size parameter (set to 48 here).
Latency was also the same whether the preset was a pure In->Out loopback or 84.9% CPU usage one, numbers also consistent within reboots, cold boot and longer (2 hours) session.

It's definitely better than the last time I checked (~12ms offset) so not sure what to think of it.
My testing was with a click track in my DAW as RTL Utility crashes on startup for me.

When I do that I get 231 samples lag in Logic @48k/32 which matches the difference between actual (596 samples) and reported (365 samples) latency measured in RTL Util.

-Aaron

 

[DLC86]

I just measured the RTL of my FM3 using RTL Util. No blocks in chain other than input and output.

Out 2 L to in 1 L, FM3 USB buffer size at 48 (minimum) in IO settings, M3 Pro (un-binned) MacBook Pro w/16GB Ram.

Sample Rate	Buffer	Rep RTL	Meas RTL	Meas RTL (ms)
48000	16	333	573	11.938
48000	32	365	605	12.604
48000	64	429	669	13.938
48000	128	557	797	16.604
48000	256	813	1053	21.938
48000	512	1325	1565	32.604

-Aaron

For comparison...

 

[SeeD]

If Fractal had a history of not taking care of things, I'd be joining in with ya.

With this FM3 USB thing It`s been over 4 years since released ( 23 April 2019 )

 

[DrewJD82]

With this FM3 USB thing It`s been over 4 years since released ( 23 April 2019 )

That felt good, didn’t it?

 

[GuitarJon]

To anyone who has used both the FM3 and HX Stomp as USB audio interface: how does the performance of the Stomp compare to the FM3? Is it just as stable when it comes to working in full mix sessions for example?

I know, some of you think I should get a dedicated audio interface etc etc but this thread was spawned primarily because I'm building a compact laptop rig and having a modeler like the FM3 or HX Stomp as audio interface can be quite convenient for a multitude of reasons!

A benefit of the FM3 is that it has XLR outs but some benefits of the HX Stomp are the variable samplerates, Helix Native for instant reamping and its size.

 

[bikescene]

I

To anyone who has used both the FM3 and HX Stomp as USB audio interface: how does the performance of the Stomp compare to the FM3? Is it just as stable when it comes to working in full mix sessions for example?

I know, some of you think I should get a dedicated audio interface etc etc but this thread was spawned primarily because I'm building a compact laptop rig and having a modeler like the FM3 or HX Stomp as audio interface can be quite convenient for a multitude of reasons!

A benefit of the FM3 is that it has XLR outs but some benefits of the HX Stomp are the variable samplerates, Helix Native for instant reamping and its size.

I’ve only worked with them on older desktops (i7 2600K) and mobile devices ( old i5, Surface, 4 year old iPad Pro), so my experience may not be typical. I normally run them at a buffer size of 128 to avoid pops and clicks. The clicks don’t make it into the recorded audio but are annoying to listen to. I try not to have too many VST/VSTi when using either. Maybe an EZDrummer kit instead of a full blown SD3 kit.

I much prefer to use a dedicated audio interface when I can. I can run a lower buffer size (64 or 96) and use more VSTs. I use the HX Stomp and FM3 as portable audio interfaces to record clean DIs to reamp at a later point.

I can try to commandeer my wife’s M1 MBP this week and see how they run with something from this decade.

 

[Lysander]

To anyone who has used both the FM3 and HX Stomp as USB audio interface: how does the performance of the Stomp compare to the FM3? Is it just as stable when it comes to working in full mix sessions for example?

Helix, Stomp included, is in my experience rock solid as an audio interface. The problem is still the (comparatively) high latency, so it won't be very useful fo monitoring. It wasn't nearly as bad as the FM3, but getting it under 10ms took some work.

Frankly, if you want a compact rig with for recording, a dedicated AI is still your best bet. Maybe something like U-Phoria UM2, which is very compact and also very very cheap.

 

[LP59]

To anyone who has used both the FM3 and HX Stomp as USB audio interface: how does the performance of the Stomp compare to the FM3? Is it just as stable when it comes to working in full mix sessions for example?

I know, some of you think I should get a dedicated audio interface etc etc but this thread was spawned primarily because I'm building a compact laptop rig and having a modeler like the FM3 or HX Stomp as audio interface can be quite convenient for a multitude of reasons!

A benefit of the FM3 is that it has XLR outs but some benefits of the HX Stomp are the variable samplerates, Helix Native for instant reamping and its size.

I've used both as an audio interface and both worked fine, except for the latency reporting on the FM3. If you're just recording the HX Stomp or FM3, there's no need for an audio interface. The variable sample rate on the HX Stomp is a big plus, but you can get lower latency if you give that up and don't use the driver. If you're monitoring direct, the latency won't matter anyway.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Keep at it guys, James didn't get a 2203 in the HX by being quiet!

 

[Bruce]

FractalAudio​

Administrator​

Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator

• Apr 11, 2010
• 
  
• Add bookmark
• #1

Welcome to the Fractal Audio forum. This is a friendly group, which abides by just a few simple rules. If you cannot follow the rules you will be warned. Three warnings will result in a temporary ban of 30 days. Further infractions will result in a ban of 90 days. After that you will be banned permanently. Moderators and admins may also skip right to the banning at their discretion.

1. First and foremost, be civil and courteous. Attacks, insults or harassment of others will not be tolerated.
2. No excessively foul language, trolling, hate speech, or adult content. Also, don't SHOUT.
3. None of this stuff like "I can hear something and if you can't hear it you're an idiot." Tone is subjective and personal. If others don't agree with your opinion that's life. Take the "stereophile" nonsense elsewhere.
4. Respect the moderators and the founders of the forum. The moderators do their job without pay and graciously dedicate their time.
5. No politics, no religion. There are plenty of other places on the Internet where you can discuss your political leanings and religious beliefs.
6. It costs money to host this forum. As such it's not a democracy. The guy who pays the bill (me) has the ultimate say.
7. If you have any affiliation with any other company in the MI industry, you must mention this in your "signature" on this forum. This goes for all employees, representatives, beta testers, affiliates, marketers, endorsers/endorsees, or others associated with any such company in any way. Affiliations must be clearly displayed in an unaltered font (i.e not extremely tiny and very light gray). See this thread for discussion: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/affiliations.102186/
8. To post any commercial content on this forum, you must apply to become an APPROVED VENDOR. Vendors have their own rules which must be followed. See this thread for discussion:
   https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/vendor-program-and-rules.156235/

If you have a question or a problem with this forum, with another user, for whatever reason, please visit https://www.fractalaudio.com/getting-help

As for locking that thread, rule #6 above applies.

They’ve pretty much said this wont be fixed tomorrow. ALL software and hardware has limitations. They have a 15 day return policy. If functioning above and beyond what the interface capabilities provide for is important to the buyer, they shouldn’t buy something based on what they want it to be. I want a lot of things to be a lot of things they’re not. I want my puppy to still be alive. I want my wife to cook more. I want a toilet made out of solid gold. None of these things are going to happen for me any time soon. So, I work within my limitations and accept what I currently have. I order food out. I crap on ceramic and cherish my little guys ashes.

The real sticking point about the FM3 limitation is it is easily compensated for in the DAW. Trust me, there is a damn good chance you’ll come across other hardware in your life you’ll have to nudge tracks for. The choices are obvious:
Buy an interface.
Buy an FM9.
Buy a competitors product.
Learn to nudge your tracks.

The bigger problem here is the lack of coping with an imperfect world in my opinion. If you learned to nudge the tracks, is that a bad thing? In protools there is a shortcut for it. What’s the worst that can happen, you learn your DAW better?

 

[paisleywookiee]

The FM3 is an awesome unit, but amazing audio interface it ain't. The Stomp stomps all over it, in that regard. I don't know WTF is the issue, nor do I care anymore (since I don't have one) but it's not something I'd ever recommend for audio interface use.

 

[Bruce]

The FM3 is an awesome unit, but amazing audio interface it ain't. The Stomp stomps all over it, in that regard. I don't know WTF is the issue, nor do I care anymore (since I don't have one) but it's not something I'd ever recommend for audio interface use.

You know what I’d recommend for an audio interface?

An audio interface.

 

[JT]

Mojo sent on the loss of your dog, Bruce

 

[paisleywookiee]

You know what I’d recommend for an audio interface?

An audio interface.

I get there’s an attractive nature to all in one, no additional conversion, etc. but yeah.

 

[Bruce]

Mojo sent on the loss of your dog, Bruce

Oh man, thanks. This hit my family HARD. I cried more for this puppy than when my father died.

 

[JT]

Oh man, thanks. This hit my family HARD. I cried more for this puppy than when my father died.

It's one of the worst things ever

 

[duzie]

FractalAudio​

Administrator​

Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator

• Apr 11, 2010
• 
  
• Add bookmark
• #1

Welcome to the Fractal Audio forum. This is a friendly group, which abides by just a few simple rules. If you cannot follow the rules you will be warned. Three warnings will result in a temporary ban of 30 days. Further infractions will result in a ban of 90 days. After that you will be banned permanently. Moderators and admins may also skip right to the banning at their discretion.

1. First and foremost, be civil and courteous. Attacks, insults or harassment of others will not be tolerated.
2. No excessively foul language, trolling, hate speech, or adult content. Also, don't SHOUT.
3. None of this stuff like "I can hear something and if you can't hear it you're an idiot." Tone is subjective and personal. If others don't agree with your opinion that's life. Take the "stereophile" nonsense elsewhere.
4. Respect the moderators and the founders of the forum. The moderators do their job without pay and graciously dedicate their time.
5. No politics, no religion. There are plenty of other places on the Internet where you can discuss your political leanings and religious beliefs.
6. It costs money to host this forum. As such it's not a democracy. The guy who pays the bill (me) has the ultimate say.
7. If you have any affiliation with any other company in the MI industry, you must mention this in your "signature" on this forum. This goes for all employees, representatives, beta testers, affiliates, marketers, endorsers/endorsees, or others associated with any such company in any way. Affiliations must be clearly displayed in an unaltered font (i.e not extremely tiny and very light gray). See this thread for discussion: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/affiliations.102186/
8. To post any commercial content on this forum, you must apply to become an APPROVED VENDOR. Vendors have their own rules which must be followed. See this thread for discussion:
   https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/vendor-program-and-rules.156235/

If you have a question or a problem with this forum, with another user, for whatever reason, please visit https://www.fractalaudio.com/getting-help

As for locking that thread, rule #6 above applies.

They’ve pretty much said this wont be fixed tomorrow. ALL software and hardware has limitations. They have a 15 day return policy. If functioning above and beyond what the interface capabilities provide for is important to the buyer, they shouldn’t buy something based on what they want it to be. I want a lot of things to be a lot of things they’re not. I want my puppy to still be alive. I want my wife to cook more. I want a toilet made out of solid gold. None of these things are going to happen for me any time soon. So, I work within my limitations and accept what I currently have. I order food out. I crap on ceramic and cherish my little guys ashes.

The real sticking point about the FM3 limitation is it is easily compensated for in the DAW. Trust me, there is a damn good chance you’ll come across other hardware in your life you’ll have to nudge tracks for. The choices are obvious:
Buy an interface.
Buy an FM9.
Buy a competitors product.
Learn to nudge your tracks.

The bigger problem here is the lack of coping with an imperfect world in my opinion. If you learned to nudge the tracks, is that a bad thing? In protools there is a shortcut for it. What’s the worst that can happen, you learn your DAW better?

It is what it is.

 

[Bruce]

It's one of the worst things ever

You dont know the half of it. 6 month old chihuahua pup got sick on Christmas Day. I had family coming over for dinner in 48 hours. We spent the entire next day in the animal hospital, 9 hours. Got the bloodwork back and the bad news (we had previous bad news a few weeks prior, heart problem and knew the situation was grave). The dog died in my wife’s arms the next morning. We spent the morning driving up to the pet cemetery with him to have him cremated. Went to bed and stayed there for the next 2 days. Didn’t eat, didnt shower, just binge watched Sopranos and cried a lot. We still miss him terribly. Worst holiday season ever. Cancelled my Christmas dinner, my brother and daughter were coming over. Even gifts, who cares. I told my wife the gift I want is his medical bill so she paid that. Thats what I got for Christmas this year. If I cant have my dog I dont want anything. We had a war chest ready to go (our vacation account) in case he needed a procedure but his heart was so bad there was no saving this dog.

 

[synthpenguin]

Helix, Stomp included, is in my experience rock solid as an audio interface. The problem is still the (comparatively) high latency, so it won't be very useful fo monitoring. It wasn't nearly as bad as the FM3, but getting it under 10ms took some work.

Frankly, if you want a compact rig with for recording, a dedicated AI is still your best bet. Maybe something like U-Phoria UM2, which is very compact and also very very cheap.

I’ve only used the Stomp as an interface for convenience when using HX Edit, but this fits my experience too (though IIRC with a little better RTL, but nothing too spectacular either)