Digital Igloo (Eric Klein, YGG)

What's your favorite thing about what can be done with the Helix aside from driving Powerpoint?

If the chief architect role came with even more omnipotence, what would you dictate next for Helix?
 
What non-YGG products have you been most impressed with in say the last 5 years?

Maybe one in HW form and one plugin.

and how close do you feel modelling is in general to being DONE (are we there already)? what would a perfect/complete emulation consist of to you?
 
Stone said:
Hello DI, say is this a possibility @ YGG ? i mean yes anything is possible, but has there ever been any discussion or plans ?

Catalyst "FRFR" ---> --> remove all Modelling, add a tweeter and a XLR Input, put a tilt stand, close the back, add a port in the front, keep bass treble and presence (room shaping) and keep ~ same price as 100watt Catalyst, would be a serious contender in the "FRFR" market below $400 USD range maybe Even offer a 60 watt 10 Inch for even Less, market it as a Entry level "FRFR" plastic PA Killer,
something like we have a Toyota and we also have a lexus (Powercab Plus) :idk
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Powercab is overseen by a different PM, but my understanding is that we're far from done with Powercab and its ilk.
Mooselake said:
What's your favorite thing about what can be done with the Helix aside from driving Powerpoint?
Click to expand...
I love that there are bands who claim they simply cannot play live without Helix and Variax. (Twelve Foot Ninja was one, R.I.P. :cry:) The notion of hitting a single switch to cycle through up to 8 completely different guitars, per-string tunings, per-string volumes, amp sets, effects, and 64 parameter values—all with zero gap and perfect spillover—still boggles my mind.

And then how each knob on Variax can control whatever amp and effects parameters you want with custom min/max values, like an expression pedal under your fingers. The first time you cause a Space Echo to squeal—or your Moog synth's ladder filter cutoff and resonance to self-oscillate over MIDI—with the tone knob, nowhere near your floorboard, and the audience is all "Wha?! That's gotta be fake." Immense fun.

But that's pretty geeky stuff. I also love the notion that a kid just starting out can borrow an HX Stomp from their uncle and play around for a few days to figure out what amps and pedals they like. Whether they end up with a Stomp or not, using it to do nothing but learn what types of sounds you might like before building a traditional rig is really cool. I would've killed for something like this when I was a teenager.
If the chief architect role came with even more omnipotence, what would you dictate next for Helix?
Click to expand...
I'll be honest—there are fairly constant battles at Line 6 and although Products (and by extension, our customers) win out more often than not, the fact that it sometimes takes countless hours of internal marketing to convince others to do what we understand to be the right thing is often exhausting. "Eric, I get that you've read millions of posts over the years, have written tens of thousands yourself, and are in constant contact with a public that overshares every detail of their purchasing journey, but... they're just one data point. What about all the customers who don't post online?" :mad: If I had any omnipotence at all, I'd remove the need to constantly validate the glaringly obvious to our own people.
MirrorProfiles said:
What non-YGG products have you been most impressed with in say the last 5 years? Maybe one in HW form and one plugin.
Click to expand...
and how close do you feel modelling is in general to being DONE (are we there already)?
Click to expand...
For most guitarists, I'd say we have the law of diminishing returns well within our sights (collectively in the high-end modeling industry, not just Line 6). But 99% of lingering, sweeping negative comments about modeling are based on not understanding the impact of one's playback system, so education is a much bigger hurdle than nailing the last tiny little nuance of one particular op amp when it ages slightly. However, I'm guessing we'll continue to tackle both for many years to come.
what would a perfect/complete emulation consist of to you?
Click to expand...
We'll never be complete. I think some of the effort may pivot from higher granularity to other things—perhaps even tangential to actual tone—in the coming years, but in tech, there's no such thing as "perfect."
 
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Digital Igloo said:
Powercab is overseen by a different PM, but my understanding is that we're far from done with Powercab and its ilk.

I love that there are bands who claim they simply cannot play live without Helix and Variax. (Twelve Foot Ninja was one, R.I.P. :cry:) The notion of hitting a single switch to cycle through up to 8 completely different guitars, per-string tunings, per-string volumes, amp sets, effects, and 64 parameter values—all with zero gap and perfect spillover—still boggles my mind.

And then how each knob on Variax can control whatever amp and effects parameters you want with custom min/max values, like an expression pedal under your fingers. The first time you cause a Space Echo to squeal—or your Moog synth's ladder filter cutoff and resonance to self-oscillate over MIDI—with the tone knob, nowhere near your floorboard, and the audience is all "Wha?! That's gotta be fake." Immense fun.

But that's pretty geeky stuff. I also love the notion that a kid just starting out can borrow an HX Stomp from their uncle and play around for a few days to figure out what amps and pedals they like. Whether they end up with a Stomp or not, using it to do nothing but learn what types of sounds you might like before building a traditional rig is really cool. I would've killed for something like this when I was a teenager.

I'll be honest—there are fairly constant battles at Line 6 and although Products (and by extension, our customers) win out more often than not, the fact that it sometimes takes countless hours of internal marketing to convince others to do what we understand to be the right thing is often exhausting. "Eric, I get that you've read millions of posts over the years, have written tens of thousands yourself, and are in constant contact with a public that overshares every detail of their purchasing journey, but... they're just one data point. What about all the customers who don't post online?" :mad: If I had any omnipotence at all, I'd remove the need to constantly validate the glaringly obvious to our own people.


For most guitarists, I'd say we have the law of diminishing returns well within our sights (collectively in the high-end modeling industry, not just Line 6). But 99% of lingering, sweeping negative comments about modeling are based on not understanding the impact of one's playback system, so education is a much bigger hurdle than nailing the last tiny little nuance of one particular op amp when it ages slightly. However, I'm guessing we'll continue to tackle both for many years to come.

We'll never be complete. I think some of the effort may pivot from higher granularity to other things—perhaps even tangential to actual tone—in the coming years, but in tech, there's no such thing as "perfect."
Click to expand...
pfeeeew, damn you handled that onslaught well
 
I actually think the Powercab stuff is brilliant, even if I haven't tried it and can't speak to the execution. But as you said, 99% of problems with modeling are due to user monitoring issues (same applies to me sadly). Offering a product that is standardized and controlled definitely would help to minimize those issues. Especially when the use case is playing guitar through a speaker in the room.

I'd like to see a "Powercab Mini" with an 8" driver and smaller amp that would be great for home use, especially in stereo configuration somewhere in the $400-450 price range.

Or a variation which is basically a 12" guitar speaker in a cab with a good flat SS amp, basic EQ controls, and a volume knob. To compete with the SD Powerstage / Orange Pedal Baby plus cab.
 
Jarick said:
I actually think the Powercab stuff is brilliant, even if I haven't tried it and can't speak to the execution. But as you said, 99% of problems with modeling are due to user monitoring issues (same applies to me sadly). Offering a product that is standardized and controlled definitely would help to minimize those issues. Especially when the use case is playing guitar through a speaker in the room.

I'd like to see a "Powercab Mini" with an 8" driver and smaller amp that would be great for home use, especially in stereo configuration somewhere in the $400-450 price range.

Or a variation which is basically a 12" guitar speaker in a cab with a good flat SS amp, basic EQ controls, and a volume knob. To compete with the SD Powerstage / Orange Pedal Baby plus cab.
Click to expand...
Yup what I requested from Line 6

Catalyst "FRFR" ---> --> remove all Modelling, add a tweeter and a XLR Input, put a tilt stand, close the back, add a port in the front, keep bass treble and presence (room shaping) and keep ~ same price as 100watt Catalyst, would be a serious contender in the "FRFR" market below $400 USD range maybe Even offer a 60 watt 10 Inch for even Less, market it as a Entry level "FRFR" plastic PA Killer,
something like we have a Toyota and we also have a lexus (Powercab Plus)
 
Digital Igloo said:
... 99% of lingering, sweeping negative comments about modeling are based on not understanding the impact of one's playback system, so education is a much bigger hurdle than nailing the last tiny little nuance of one particular op amp when it ages slightly.
Click to expand...

:love

Literary treasure, every word of it!
I would also include the relationship between the model knobs and volume of the real amp.

EDUCATION
 
Digital Igloo said:
Powercab is overseen by a different PM, but my understanding is that we're far from done with Powercab and its ilk.
Click to expand...
Agreeing Putt Putt GIF by ABC Network
 
Digital Igloo said:
One of our partners mistakenly posted a "3.5" announcement on Facebook, which made the rounds. Never mind it's 3.50, but... yeah.
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What about that one partner who posted an ocean view photo with a conspicuous filename? I bet you guys revoked his beta testing privileges for life. Hell, even Sweden found out about it.

...;)
 
Digital Igloo said:
Ask Me Anything.
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Now, I'm by no means complaining about the Helix 3.50 update, but one of the things I expected to see in 3.50 were the new "HX" amps from the Catalyst, so I was a little surprised when they weren't included.

So, my question is, are there any plans to include these in a future Helix update?
 
Digital Igloo said:
Powercab is overseen by a different PM, but my understanding is that we're far from done with Powercab and its ilk.

I love that there are bands who claim they simply cannot play live without Helix and Variax. (Twelve Foot Ninja was one, R.I.P. :cry:) The notion of hitting a single switch to cycle through up to 8 completely different guitars, per-string tunings, per-string volumes, amp sets, effects, and 64 parameter values—all with zero gap and perfect spillover—still boggles my mind.

And then how each knob on Variax can control whatever amp and effects parameters you want with custom min/max values, like an expression pedal under your fingers. The first time you cause a Space Echo to squeal—or your Moog synth's ladder filter cutoff and resonance to self-oscillate over MIDI—with the tone knob, nowhere near your floorboard, and the audience is all "Wha?! That's gotta be fake." Immense fun.

But that's pretty geeky stuff. I also love the notion that a kid just starting out can borrow an HX Stomp from their uncle and play around for a few days to figure out what amps and pedals they like. Whether they end up with a Stomp or not, using it to do nothing but learn what types of sounds you might like before building a traditional rig is really cool. I would've killed for something like this when I was a teenager.

I'll be honest—there are fairly constant battles at Line 6 and although Products (and by extension, our customers) win out more often than not, the fact that it sometimes takes countless hours of internal marketing to convince others to do what we understand to be the right thing is often exhausting. "Eric, I get that you've read millions of posts over the years, have written tens of thousands yourself, and are in constant contact with a public that overshares every detail of their purchasing journey, but... they're just one data point. What about all the customers who don't post online?" :mad: If I had any omnipotence at all, I'd remove the need to constantly validate the glaringly obvious to our own people.


For most guitarists, I'd say we have the law of diminishing returns well within our sights (collectively in the high-end modeling industry, not just Line 6). But 99% of lingering, sweeping negative comments about modeling are based on not understanding the impact of one's playback system, so education is a much bigger hurdle than nailing the last tiny little nuance of one particular op amp when it ages slightly. However, I'm guessing we'll continue to tackle both for many years to come.

We'll never be complete. I think some of the effort may pivot from higher granularity to other things—perhaps even tangential to actual tone—in the coming years, but in tech, there's no such thing as "perfect."
Click to expand...
Great post Eric! Thanks for sharing all your thoughts here!
 
Foxmeister said:
Now, I'm by no means complaining about the Helix 3.50 update, but one of the things I expected to see in 3.50 were the new "HX" amps from the Catalyst, so I was a little surprised when they weren't included. So, my question is, are there any plans to include these in a future Helix update?
Click to expand...
There's no technical reason why Catalyst amps can't be added to Helix.
 
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Just found this thread and read through it, interesting stuff. Thanks for answering!

I've got more questions:

Where do you see the "digital amp" going in the future? I feel this is a product that nobody has nailed yet. The way I see it, this is just a relatively compact digital amp and cab. No effects, reverb at most. No menus, a limited set of options, easy to operate. Possibly with built in poweramp and/or own speaker.
  • Yamaha THR100HD was a great thing in many ways, plagued by weird quirks and inconveniences in so many areas. I feel like it's one more iteration away from being really great with its blendable channels, stereo poweramp and simple operation.
  • Strymon Iridium has a good feature set, but its lack of high/low cut functionality for IRs is a small inconvenience and in terms of modeling it doesn't sound quite as good as some of the competition even though it does sound very good overall.
  • Universal Audio amp pedals sound good, but have very rigid cab sim options and an insanely dated feature set for a digital pedal.
  • Amplifire and Walrus Audio stuff is somewhere in between.
  • Fender Tonemaster stuff is popular as a "looks and operates like a real amp" thing but that also ditches most of the good parts of digital amps, the ability to be a shape shifter between various tones.
  • Boss Katana or Line6 Catalyst do a lot of things right but are decidedly aimed at the more budget end of the scale.
  • HX Stomp sacrifices usability for a compact and affordable form factor while also being a full blown multifx unit.
  • The analog BluGuitar Amp 1 is closer but even that doesn't quite nail it as it sucks for the direct recording features without the BluBox which in itself is good but not great (could also use low/high cut). The upcoming BluGuitar Amp X is a bit too far off towards the full blown multifx system with competition from Line6 and others already while being about as large as a FM9.
 
laxu said:
Just found this thread and read through it, interesting stuff. Thanks for answering!

I've got more questions:

Where do you see the "digital amp" going in the future? I feel this is a product that nobody has nailed yet. The way I see it, this is just a relatively compact digital amp and cab. No effects, reverb at most. No menus, a limited set of options, easy to operate. Possibly with built in poweramp and/or own speaker.
  • Yamaha THR100HD was a great thing in many ways, plagued by weird quirks and inconveniences in so many areas. I feel like it's one more iteration away from being really great with its blendable channels, stereo poweramp and simple operation.
  • Strymon Iridium has a good feature set, but its lack of high/low cut functionality for IRs is a small inconvenience and in terms of modeling it doesn't sound quite as good as some of the competition even though it does sound very good overall.
  • Universal Audio amp pedals sound good, but have very rigid cab sim options and an insanely dated feature set for a digital pedal.
  • Amplifire and Walrus Audio stuff is somewhere in between.
  • Fender Tonemaster stuff is popular as a "looks and operates like a real amp" thing but that also ditches most of the good parts of digital amps, the ability to be a shape shifter between various tones.
  • Boss Katana or Line6 Catalyst do a lot of things right but are decidedly aimed at the more budget end of the scale.
  • HX Stomp sacrifices usability for a compact and affordable form factor while also being a full blown multifx unit.
  • The analog BluGuitar Amp 1 is closer but even that doesn't quite nail it as it sucks for the direct recording features without the BluBox which in itself is good but not great (could also use low/high cut). The upcoming BluGuitar Amp X is a bit too far off towards the full blown multifx system with competition from Line6 and others already while being about as large as a FM9.
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It is a shame L6 has abandoned the high end, fully digital amp space, post Vetta. It’s a hard sell though. I wonder how popular the Tonemasters are? It might merit revisiting as more people realize digital is so viable now. Interested to hear DI’s thoughts on this too.

I would not be surprised if the tide will turn at some point… As more kids grow up seeing rig rundowns of Helixes, AxeFX, Kemper, and, yes, QC rigs, the digital stuff becomes aspirational.
 
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