Design Flaws, and why guitarists generally fear change

Yeah I love those. Just wish they did one without a floyd. The new Modern series is cool, but the only thing modern about it is the neck shape and heel. The headstock still sucks (IMO).

I don't think Gibson really can ever get away from that though; it's their signature headstock.
Yeah, I hear what you’re saying.

And they do make them without floyds. I’ve been eyeing this forever, but ended up finding and buying my Blue Widow, so that stole the funds away…

 
Once upon a time, rock guitarists were rebels and innovators; always challenging the norm. Today, many are narrow-minded purists and conservative a-holes :poop:
 
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That analogy doesn't fit. If my Les Paul was giving me half as much trouble as your hypothetical 57 Bel Air it would be gone in a second and something else would take it's place.

But it doesn't give me any problems at all.

In all 192 shows I played with it last year I never once had a situation where something about it was bothering me or not working the way I wanted it to. I never once had any frustration with it, and never once thought I wish I had something else. It just worked.

I don't find myself feeling a need for anything on it to be changed, or fixed, or updated, or improved. If I did, I would get rid of it and get something that worked better for me.

It has nothing to do with it being cool, or vintage, or traditional. It has nothing to do with fearing change, it has nothing to do with what any other guitarist besides me has ever used. It's a tool I have, and it works.

So why should I give up a tool that does everything I need just because it happens to be traditional and there are other modern alternatives available?

I can think of a huge list of reasons to trade a 57 Bel Air for a 2023 Hyundai, because there are a ton of practical considerations there. But I can't think of a single reason to trade my Gibson for anything else. :idk
For the reasons stated. The Gibson suffers from design flaws. It’s heavy, its recessed headstock makes it overly prone to breaking, the upper access sucks and lord knows they haven’t learned to get a finish right in 70 years.

Now these things may not give you problems. I wouldn’t call these things really a “problem”, other than they’ve all been improved on over the years to make a much better playing experience. Sure, we can both get thru shows just fine with a Les Paul if we tolerate the issues inherent with the Les Paul. It’s hard to argue there aren’t great sounding guitars that are lighter, have better upper register access, better finishes and safer headstocks.

You can call a pair of Skippies a tool if you’re running track. Everyone with a pair of Brooks running shoes will wonder why you wear skippies. Maybe you like them. Maybe they feel comfortable to you. Doesn’t mean there aren’t better options.

You’re sitting in the Model T of guitars. It was literally the first or second solid body guitar. It’s not the Les Pauls fault it is what it is. You’re hand cranking the engine saying the car does everything you need it to do. That’s cool if that works for you, that’s all that really matters anyway.
 
Then why not make improvements that are now easily done? I’m just sayin’, maybe YOU don’t like Gibson because of the adherence to tradition, but I think they’re (Gibson) are afraid to alienate people (again) by modernizing stuff.
I haven't had any more tuning trouble with Gibson style guitars vs. Fender-style. The only difference is that the tuning stability problems on G-style will almost always be the G-string, where on other guitars...it's whatever string the nut slot isn't quite perfect on.

Broken headstocks...I mean, don't drop your guitar or pack it poorly? A laminate acoustic guitar is more technologically forward thinking than a solid wood acoustic in terms of humidity cracks...doesn't mean I want it. Volute is similar...I'd rather just, ya know, be responsible with my musical instruments, then have them all gussetted up because other people choose not to.
 
I haven't had any more tuning trouble with Gibson style guitars vs. Fender-style. The only difference is that the tuning stability problems on G-style will almost always be the G-string, where on other guitars...it's whatever string the nut slot isn't quite perfect on.

Broken headstocks...I mean, don't drop your guitar or pack it poorly? A laminate acoustic guitar is more technologically forward thinking than a solid wood acoustic in terms of humidity cracks...doesn't mean I want it. Volute is similar...I'd rather just, ya know, be responsible with my musical instruments, then have them all gussetted up because other people choose not to.
Of all the friends I've got that've had snapped headstocks, it was nothing to do with "being careful", it was an accident, a drunk oaf, etc. So yeah, a volute (as appears on the one Axxess model) is a better design.
 
Of all the friends I've got that've had snapped headstocks, it was nothing to do with "being careful", it was an accident, a drunk oaf, etc. So yeah, a volute (as appears on the one Axxess model) is a better design.
I mean if you want a guitar with a scarf joint, volute, or other design choice to make it more resilient to drunken oafs, there are plenty of options available and one should choose one of those options rather than not choosing one and then bitching about the poor design they chose to buy :beer :beer :beer
 
I mean if you want a guitar with a scarf joint, volute, or other design choice to make it more resilient to drunken oafs, there are plenty of options available and one should choose one of those options rather than not choosing one and then bitching about the poor design they chose to buy :beer :beer :beer
That’s hilarious. Buy a completely different guitar, because of one design issue that’s easily fixed (and they have, on one model).
 
That’s hilarious. Buy a completely different guitar, because of one design issue that’s easily fixed (and they have, on one model).
We will go bike analogy. And instead of comparing a '70s era banana seat to a modern carbon fiber bike, we'll talk about two high performance machines:

Dude 1:. "ugh, why don't they just add an extra layer of carbon fiber at the seat tube/top tube junction, or a gusset, or something. That way when my 300 pound friend sits on my bike even after I ask him not to, it won't crack!! It'll add less than 50 grams to the frame!"

Dude that doesn't have a rude 300 pound friend: "yeah, pleas don't."
 
We will go bike analogy. And instead of comparing a '70s era banana seat to a modern carbon fiber bike, we'll talk about two high performance machines:

Dude 1:. "ugh, why don't they just add an extra layer of carbon fiber at the seat tube/top tube junction, or a gusset, or something. That way when my 300 pound friend sits on my bike even after I ask him not to, it won't crack!! It'll add less than 50 grams to the frame!"

Dude that doesn't have a rude 300 pound friend: "yeah, pleas don't."
Nah, let’s go car analogy. “This Model T is bumpy as all hell. Let’s give it shocks and struts”.
 
For the reasons stated. The Gibson suffers from design flaws. It’s heavy, its recessed headstock makes it overly prone to breaking, the upper access sucks and lord knows they haven’t learned to get a finish right in 70 years.

Now these things may not give you problems. I wouldn’t call these things really a “problem”, other than they’ve all been improved on over the years to make a much better playing experience. Sure, we can both get thru shows just fine with a Les Paul if we tolerate the issues inherent with the Les Paul. It’s hard to argue there aren’t great sounding guitars that are lighter, have better upper register access, better finishes and safer headstocks.

You can call a pair of Skippies a tool if you’re running track. Everyone with a pair of Brooks running shoes will wonder why you wear skippies. Maybe you like them. Maybe they feel comfortable to you. Doesn’t mean there aren’t better options.

You’re sitting in the Model T of guitars. It was literally the first or second solid body guitar. It’s not the Les Pauls fault it is what it is. You’re hand cranking the engine saying the car does everything you need it to do. That’s cool if that works for you, that’s all that really matters anyway.

Weight doesn't bother me, I don't even notice it, I've never broken a headstock, and I have no problem reaching any fret. I don't care about finish at all so maybe someone more picky than me would tear mine apart, but it looks fine to me.

I've owned and played tons of modern guitars and right now I like the sound and feel of my Gibson better than any of them. I have zero brand loyalty when it comes to guitars. I just play what sounds and feels the best to me and right now that's Gibson.

So... why should I play I guitar that doesn't sound or feel as good to me just because it's "modern"? Why should I ditch the one that sounds and feels the best to me just because it's "traditional"?



Going modern for the sake of being modern is just as dumb as going traditional for the sake of being traditional. I'm not interested in either of those paths.
 
Weight doesn't bother me, I don't even notice it, I've never broken a headstock, and I have no problem reaching any fret. I don't care about finish at all so maybe someone more picky than me would tear mine apart, but it looks fine to me.

I've owned and played tons of modern guitars and right now I like the sound and feel of my Gibson better than any of them. I have zero brand loyalty when it comes to guitars. I just play what sounds and feels the best to me and right now that's Gibson.

So... why should I play I guitar that doesn't sound or feel as good to me just because it's "modern"? Why should I ditch the one that sounds and feels the best to me just because it's "traditional"?



Going modern for the sake of being modern is just as dumb as going traditional for the sake of being traditional. I'm not interested in either of those paths.
None of the mentioned problems are a problem……until they’re a problem.

When folks hand adjusted their mirrors and chiseled ice off of them, it wasn’t a problem. Enter power mirrors and defrost. It’s STILL not a problem, but…….
 
I haven't had any more tuning trouble with Gibson style guitars vs. Fender-style. The only difference is that the tuning stability problems on G-style will almost always be the G-string, where on other guitars...it's whatever string the nut slot isn't quite perfect on.

Broken headstocks...I mean, don't drop your guitar or pack it poorly? A laminate acoustic guitar is more technologically forward thinking than a solid wood acoustic in terms of humidity cracks...doesn't mean I want it. Volute is similar...I'd rather just, ya know, be responsible with my musical instruments, then have them all gussetted up because other people choose not to.
Not sure how often you bring your guitars out or the environments you may play in, but being careful is the least of it.
 
None of the mentioned problems are a problem……until they’re a problem.

When folks hand adjusted their mirrors and chiseled ice off of them, it wasn’t a problem. Enter power mirrors and defrost. It’s STILL not a problem, but…….

You're skipping around the question I'm asking with analogies that don't fit.

I've played tons and tons of modern guitars and I like the feel and sound of my Gibson better.

So... why should I use a guitar that doesn't sound or feel as good to me just because the one I like best happens to be a traditional design?


That makes no sense to me. It's going modern for the sake of going modern. Which to me is every bit as ridiculous as going traditional for the sake of going traditional.

I don't care if it's modern or vintage or traditional, I only care if it sounds and feels the way I want it to. :idk
 
Not sure how often you bring your guitars out or the environments you may play in, but being careful is the least of it.
I get that. But saying that any guitar that isn't designed to stand up to precarious gigging situations has a "design flaw", given how few guitars are actually used in those kinds of situations, is kind of pretending that all cars should be designed to be 3-row seaters with loads of storage space and 4-wheel drive, even if you're a widowed empty-nester living in the suburban south.
 
You're skipping around the question I'm asking with analogies that don't fit.

I've played tons and tons of modern guitars and I like the feel and sound of my Gibson better.

So... why should I use a guitar that doesn't sound or feel as good to me just because the one I like best happens to be a traditional design?


That makes no sense to me. It's going modern for the sake of going modern. Which to me is every bit as ridiculous as going traditional for the sake of going traditional.

I don't care if it's modern or vintage or traditional, I only care if it sounds and feels the way I want it to. :idk
I’ve told you more than once, you shouldn’t. If you like the sound and feel of your Gibson, keep playing it. I hope you circle the world 10 times on the biggest stages with it. It still doesn’t negate the inherent problems with Gibsons. That’s what we are talking about. If those shortcomings suit you and are worth it you you for feel and tone supposed gains, then keep playing a Les Paul.
 
I get that. But saying that any guitar that isn't designed to stand up to precarious gigging situations has a "design flaw", given how few guitars are actually used in those kinds of situations, is kind of pretending that all cars should be designed to be 3-row seaters with loads of storage space and 4-wheel drive, even if you're a widowed empty-nester living in the suburban south.
We can go back to cars. If one car was built without crumple zones and most people dropped dead in accidents in that car, the answer isn’t stop having accidents. Gibsons are known for the delicate headstock for a reason.
 
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