Calibrating Input Level for Plugins

[MirrorProfiles]

Perfect, just what I was looking for! Thank you so much! So I've basically been on the money anyways. I've been running +4 at 0 added gain. So the Neural stuff has been sounding pretty much as it should for me this whole time. Thats good to know, I've always been happy anyways. Just wondered if I was missing anything.

Thanks again MP!

No worries. I kind of originally ballparked my Helix Native level guessing by ear before I knew about this thread. My DI and converters are all stepped, and it just happened that I was 0.1dB out. Our ears can be surprisingly good at times

Cordy if you reading this;
Your Steinberg RT4 specifies "+8.5 dBV" which is a different unit than dBu.

dBV + 2.21 = dBu
https://www.extron.com/calculators/db-to-volts/


8.5 dBV + 2.21 = 10.71 dBu
To get to 12.2 dBu for Neural plugins subtract 1.5 dB in your DAW before the plugin.

Chatted to him a bit yesterday, definitely seemed like a massive AHA moment and he really understands why it matters. A few mistakes in the video but the take home message in the video is the right one - set gain to 0, check specs, adjust in the plugin.

Also encouraging to see the comments on youtube of it making sense to others and people “getting it”. Wonder who’ll be the next youtuber with a big following to discuss it…

 

[Whizzinby]

It’s hard to understate how important this is. I was using my plugs way too hot…. for years @MirrorProfiles dropping valuable knowledge.

 

[bikescene]

Setting levels at a common reference has been key for me recently to be able to track DIs using different interfaces. This thread was a bit part in helping me understand how to do so.

 

[T Gobbs]

So if my Interface is 1M Ohm like the HX stuff, do I just leave the input gain at zero, or do I have to go through the whole process?

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

So if my Interface is 1M Ohm like the HX stuff, do I just leave the input gain at zero, or do I have to go through the whole process?

The whole process. The input impedance is not the same as the input level.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Looks like NDSP stuff wants -13dBFS as the reference, what should the Helix be? I see the way to find it on the first post, but we shouldn't even need to do that, just feed a tone in and make sure its the right level

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Looks like NDSP stuff wants -13dBFS as the reference, what should the Helix be? I see the way to find it on the first post, but we shouldn't even need to do that, just feed a tone in and make sure its the right level

it’s all in the thread. NDSP=1Vp=0.707V RMS=-13dBFS=12.2dBu

Helix Native = 11.5dBu

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

@MirrorProfiles you can add ML Sound Lab to the chart. :-)

 

[MirrorProfiles]

@MirrorProfiles you can add ML Sound Lab to the chart. :-)

View attachment 16853

Thanks, its added!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Cordy is on it

 

[bikescene]

it’s all in the thread. NDSP=1Vp=0.707V RMS=-13dBFS=12.2dBu

Helix Native = 11.5dBu

<snip>

It’s help to see all of this info in one place. For Mercuriall Spark, are the values valid with the plugin’s input trim left at the default value of 4?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

It’s help to see all of this info in one place. For Mercuriall Spark, are the values valid with the plugin’s input trim left at the default value of 4?

Nah, the values for Mercuriall are using their input pot rather than dB values.

 

[Blix]

I use a VU meter plugin from Hornet for quick gain staging, it has a handy auto gain where you set your "0 VU" to your target level and the plugin does the rest:

VU Meter MK4, VU meter with grouping and auto gain - HoRNet Plugins

Digital VU meter with automatic gain

www.hornetplugins.com

 

[theimageofall]

I’m pleased this is getting some more traction now. I tried it out a while ago and felt it brought many of my amp sim plugins to life!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I use a VU meter plugin from Hornet for quick gain staging, it has a handy auto gain where you set your "0 VU" to your target level and the plugin does the rest:

VU Meter MK4, VU meter with grouping and auto gain - HoRNet Plugins

Digital VU meter with automatic gain

www.hornetplugins.com

this thread is about calibrating for the converters, you don’t want to normalise guitar signals if you want accurate gain responses from amp sims

 

[Blix]

this thread is about calibrating for the converters, you don’t want to normalise guitar signals if you want accurate gain responses from amp sims

Thread title says "calibrate input level for plugins" that's what you can do with this when you place it before your amp plugin..
It's just a quick and simple tool for the job.

​

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Thread title says "calibrate input level for plugins" that's what you can do with this when you place it before your amp plugin..
It's just a quick and simple tool for the job.

Right, but to calibrate your input level for plugins, its about adjusting your headroom to match the plugin you are using. The purpose of it is to get away from normalising guitar signals to the same volume - an auto adjustment plugin like this will normalise a strat with vintage single coils to the same level as a les paul with EMG's.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

With the attention from Cordy’s video, some more information is coming to light from developers. Mikko from ML suggested his plugins are designed around 12dBu.

I also just had an email from Mike Scuffham:

Hello again Ed,



I’ve just caught up with what you’ve been doing and now understand what you are looking for and why.



With S-Gear, nominally the headroom is approx 12dBu. With my RME interfaces, I’ll often add another 3dB boost (sometimes using a Lehle Sunday Driver into my audio interface), which I think gives very good results. So, you could say between 9 and 12 dBu nominal, but I encourage experimentation because often the amps have different sweet spots when you hit them harder/softer with different guitars/pickups.



With a focusrite Scarlett audio interface, you can set the input gain knob to zero, or just above to give some extra body to the sound. To my ears, it sounds better to boost on the focusrite rather than in the box. This could be some characteristic of the focusrite.



Cheers,

Mike

 

[theimageofall]

That supports what I’ve been feeling through S-Gear using the input at 0 on my Audient, so I’m glad I’ve been in the ball park.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Had a few youtube experts tell me about signal to noise ratio being an important reason why you should track just below clipping. Thought I’d make a video showing the signal to noise of a guitar DI (playing nothing), both as a plain DI, and going through an amp sim and IR.

20dBu of headroom through to 8dBu in 3dB steps.