HotRats
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An FM9 is nice alternative to the Helix floor but price in Europe is crazy, I think is around 2x an Helix these days
Buying Today, What do you Buy?
- Thread starter wharf rat
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An FM9 is nice alternative to the Helix floor but price in Europe is crazy, I think is around 2x an Helix these days
the-trooper
Shredder
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dronerstone
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Complete wipe + fresh start?
HX FX
Dunlop DVP3
ToneX Pedal
FreqOut
ISP Stealth
and a decent open-back 2x12"
HX FX
Dunlop DVP3
ToneX Pedal
FreqOut
ISP Stealth
and a decent open-back 2x12"
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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And n case you're also willing to look for 2nd hand units, things are much worse - simply because there's no FM9s at all at this very moment, whereas a Helix LT can sometimes be had for around 800 (i paid 900 for my Floor in 2019 and once global part shortages will be somewhat less severe than today, the prices will drop to that level).
Besides, even if the SRPs are not double as much for the Fm9 vs. the HX Floor, you will likely have to add an EXP pedal, setting you short another 150 bucks (in case you want the same functionality as the Helix' internal one is offering).
the-trooper
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That's better not worse
No way in hell FM9 is worth that much more.
Sascha Franck
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I meant the relations were getting much worse. Because...
I basically agree with that,
There's a few things to consider, though, when comparing these two. Even apart from the vastly larger amount of amps and some most excellent FX that can't be found in the HX series.
- Better hardware. At least partially, the HX hardware is just cheap, in some cases even abysmally bad (such as the display, which is simple the worst in its class under critical lightning conditions).
- Better audio interface capabilities.
- More advanced things such as modulators (which I really find to be awsome).
- Perhaps Global Blocks (from what I've read somewhere, these will likely come to the FM9). Those would be a big one for me.
laxu
Rock Star
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I have to disagree on the displays. When I had the FM3, QC and Helix Floor at the same time, the FM3 actually had the worst display quality. It had very raised black levels and the worst viewing angles. Helix was actually the best to me, being the easiest to see on the floor. QC was somewhere in between but closer to Helix, with slightly worse viewing angles if I remember.
To be fair the Axe-Fx 3 Mk2 display is markedly better than the FM3 and I expect the FM9 uses the same model. Not sure if they've silently upgraded the FM3 display too.
For audio interface capabilities to me both are fine but not the best, though to be fair I did not use the Helix a lot in that capacity.
Fractal does have a superior headphone amplifier.
I don't think modifiers are a big enough feature for most users, certainly not something that would make me pick Fractal over Line6. Same for global blocks though I can understand the appeal for live use. In any case they are not in the FM9 at the moment so I wouldn't consider unconfirmed future features when buying.
You could buy a Helix Floor and HX Stomp for less money than the FM9 alone. Or you could buy Helix Rack + Helix Control and HX Stomp for about the same money as the FM9. If you look it like that, the Fractal is a hard sell in Europe and I'm saying this as someone who has settled on the Axe-Fx 3 as my digital modeler of choice.
Lysander
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Yeah, that's my experience as well. Both are still perfectly usable, mind you.
I find that the build quality for the Helix line in general is superb - completely gig-worthy. Same goes for Fractal.
Sascha Franck
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But have you played any outdoor daylight gigs with the Helix? Or some larger stages with intense lightning? I have, and on one gig the bass player (also a pretty decent guitarist still using an AX8 here and there) was looking at me asking whether the Helix was even switched on.
I have some pics somewhere - it's beyond belief.
No idea about how well (or not well) the FM3 or QC would do, but please give me displays and switch LEDs from someone actually knowing what their doing, such as Boss. The GT-1000 stays completely visible, even in direct sunlight. I happily do without fancy colors.
There's some other pretty bad hardware issues coming along with the Helix, too. The joystick makes zero sense in terms of functionality and it's breaking often (no wonder in case you constantly apply friction in 7 possible directions on a non-military-grade piece of electronic gear), the XLR output can't deal with phantom power (WTF? I mean, did they even test this at all?) and the switches aren't something worth writing home about either, lots of folks have broken ones. At one point in time (shortly after I bought mine), I knew 7 Helix owner in person (we once even had a little gathering over here), 5 of them with units that had been serviced already, 2 of them even twice (mine had to have the tap tempo switch repaired, too).
In terms of latency, the Helix interface is just the worst of them all. Which is a shame as the USB routing options are really nice.
And as far as things such as global blocks go, I know many people don't care - but very often that also seems to be because they simply can't imagine what they could be used for and how they could somehow efficiently improve the experience beyond some obvious things.
I know, all that reads like me hating Line 6 or so - but I don't. I'm just quite dissapointed that what could've been at least close to perfect turned out to be something that I simply had to sell.
laxu
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Outdoor gigs, no. Intense enough stage lighting, a few. Maybe I just got lucky but Helix Floor was fine for me. The viewing angles on the FM3 bothered me more as it became harder to read if you weren't looking at it straight from the top. By comparison never had any issues with the footswitch displays though.
Well, I can only speak of my experience. No issues with the hardware. Worst I managed to do was get it to crash once during the few years I had it. I far prefer the Helix joystick to what Fractal does with their all-too-far-apart placed navigation buttons. The joystick default knob functionality just shouldn't be "change model" because that makes it awful.
Sascha Franck
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Well, regardless whether it's visibility, questionable XLR outs, non-durable switches or what not - with a unit in that price range, I absolutely think I shouldn't have to care about. None of the Boss units I owned (or still own) ever had any of these issues, the (noticeably cheaper) GT-1000 doesn't, either. My cheesy 100 bucks Zoom G3 ignores phantom power just fine but Line 6's flagship modeler is all barfing up.
A unit (also) aiming at professionals shouldn't have any of these issues. It's just nothing I should ever deal with. And no, I don't expect high end by any means - but I do expect rock solid performance from both hard- and software.
A unit (also) aiming at professionals shouldn't have any of these issues. It's just nothing I should ever deal with. And no, I don't expect high end by any means - but I do expect rock solid performance from both hard- and software.
Boudoir Guitar
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What are you recording where you care about latency? Any monitor-effexts I need I just slap on from the processor and monitor latency free while capturing dry.
Sascha Franck
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Software amp sims. IRs inside my computer. Virtual instruments (admittedly not as important for those as I'm a miserable keyboarder and latency is somewhat lower anyway). With a decent interface, I could have it either way, with the Helix, I had to switch constantly.
Boudoir Guitar
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Yeah, if you wanna play through software sims, not ideal, but for tracking...I'd just dial in something sufficiently similar on the Helix and go. To me, for an interface that IS a hardware DSP effects processor, latency is the least of my concerns. Having a separate volume knob for the headphone output, the mic-pre, etc., all make the Helix SOOOO much more convenient as an audio interface than Fractal, Boss, whatever...its the only hardware modeler I'd consider using as my main audio interface.
Sascha Franck
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I used the Floor exactly that way and was getting along kinda fine. But ever since I got rid of it and went back to my interface, things are just better for me, I'm absolutely not missing anything. more to the opposite, as I can just switch to software monitoring in case I want (I'm not even using it all that often as I prefer to have my sound (minus spatial FX) done before it hits the DAW).
And fwiw, I'm not expecting latency figures along the lines of RME, Motu and what not. But given the Helix a) comes with pretty elaborated interface functions (which is absolutely great) and b) is the the flagship unit of Line 6, I should be able to get something else out of it but the worst of its class.
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Here’s the FM9 in direct Florida sunlight-
When I say direct Florida sunlight, I literally mean I was in an area without a single f*cking thing blocking the sun at noon, it was almost directly over us for that gig. Had I moved forward an inch you’d see the main display much better, but the scribble strips were visible no matter where I stood.
Sascha Franck
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Thanks, that's what things should be like! Btw, the GT-1000 is as good.
I don't mind not being able to enjoy whatever nifty color schemes on those big screens, but I want to have an idea about what's going on. With the Helix, that often isn't the case. Has been too often for my taste, so it had to go.
This is a switched on Helix. Hasn't even been that sunny, almost a little grey-ish clouds.
Will Chen
Roadie
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FM3 - This is my current rig. Does everything I want and allows me a level of control to really dial things in to sound exactly like I want. Effects are fantastic and switching incredibly flexible. I'd buy it again in a heartbeat. Nothing more to say which hasn't been said 1000 times.
HX Stomp - I love this box as well but more as a multifx box than and all in one modeler and I have it dedicated for use with my SY-200. If one is playing a tube amp or has some other preamp pedal, this pedal is pretty much an ideal pairing. Personally, I feel the amp modeling lacks the deeper parameters I want to custom tailor tones which forces me to include additional blocks limiting what I can do in a preset, but for others that lack of depth is a positive. For an all in one, I'd have to look at the larger units but at those prices I'd likely just get the FM3.
KPA - I had the original toaster back in the early days. I still have some nostalgia about that box, but I didn't enjoy sifting though profiles to find ones that worked for me. That said, once you found one (or profiled your own rig), fantastic box. The signal chain is no where near as flexible as the other 2 and back then were somewhat limited but sounded great and there have been a ton of updates. That said, I personally prefer having specific models vs only profiles. EDIT: One thing to add, and can't compare them H2H to really be certain, but I remember the pitch shifting and specifically the formant function being the best I'd heard, very natural sounding even at extreme ranges, don't recall what the latency was like but that probably means it was acceptable.
HX Stomp - I love this box as well but more as a multifx box than and all in one modeler and I have it dedicated for use with my SY-200. If one is playing a tube amp or has some other preamp pedal, this pedal is pretty much an ideal pairing. Personally, I feel the amp modeling lacks the deeper parameters I want to custom tailor tones which forces me to include additional blocks limiting what I can do in a preset, but for others that lack of depth is a positive. For an all in one, I'd have to look at the larger units but at those prices I'd likely just get the FM3.
KPA - I had the original toaster back in the early days. I still have some nostalgia about that box, but I didn't enjoy sifting though profiles to find ones that worked for me. That said, once you found one (or profiled your own rig), fantastic box. The signal chain is no where near as flexible as the other 2 and back then were somewhat limited but sounded great and there have been a ton of updates. That said, I personally prefer having specific models vs only profiles. EDIT: One thing to add, and can't compare them H2H to really be certain, but I remember the pitch shifting and specifically the formant function being the best I'd heard, very natural sounding even at extreme ranges, don't recall what the latency was like but that probably means it was acceptable.
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Starting over from scratch? Probably an FM9, with monitors for home, and a power amp for playing out. That covers everything I need.
That said, I'm glad I don't have to start over from scratch, cause I sure love the amps I've acquired, and using them with the Axe Fx 3 just has so many possibilities it's crazy. I am really happy with where I'm at gear wise. There's only a thing or two on the list at this point- would love to grab a Carol Ann Triptik 2 at some point, but they're kind of unobtainium these days.
That said, I'm glad I don't have to start over from scratch, cause I sure love the amps I've acquired, and using them with the Axe Fx 3 just has so many possibilities it's crazy. I am really happy with where I'm at gear wise. There's only a thing or two on the list at this point- would love to grab a Carol Ann Triptik 2 at some point, but they're kind of unobtainium these days.
Brandon7s
Groupie
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Today I just bought an Axe FX III Turbo. I've been wanting to get an FM9 while a while but then started looking more and more into an Axe FX unit instead of a floor unit and have decided that the only thing I really want to have switchable via footswitch are the looper controls, and that's easy enough to set up with one of my existing 2-switch foot switches. It's going to be very nice never having to worry about DSP again; that's a frustrating limitation of the FM3 . I was constantly fighting with the amount of CPU available in my presets with the FM3 even though I don't even use a complex presets.
