Boss GT-1000 (and possibly other things Boss...)

[ian_dissonance]

Uh-Oh. Big. Can. Of. Worms. And I mean BIG! At least round certain necks of the woods... (as you will very likely know).
I'm working like that (2- or very rarely 3 channels of basic sounds all throughout, all further variations coming from additional dirt boxes and FX) for so long I can't even remember.
But when I entered TOP for the first time, I was almost lynched for several reasons.

- "It's so great to have a dedicated patch with dedicated amps, IRs and what not for each song and different scenes in it per part!"
Just that it isn't. At least not for the majority of us mere mortals. FOH folks will think about hiring an assassin if you keep throwing completely different sounds at them. Your bandmates won't be able to dial in your guitar on their monitors properly for the same reason. Even yourself won't be, because if you really try to mimic whatever famous sounds all the time, the levels will be completely over the place (unless you're doing a strict AC/DC cover show).
Let alone players way more up in the food chain seem to be doing just fine with 2 or 3 amp channels. Heck, Paul Gilbert would likely get along with one single patch and still play anything from Beatles to Sepultura as convincingly as it gets.

- "If you need to adjust sounds live, your patch programming skills are the fault!"
Yeah, right. As if Fletcher Munson didn't exist. As if people wouldn't usually pick harder live (which will throw all their balances between clean and dirt, and yes, that's an extremely common thing!). As if you'd know what kinda patches to bring with a telephone band or as a last minute sub.

- "No professionals will ever touch their amps during gigs!"
Just that they do. At least Robben Ford does. And Larry Carlton. And really gazillions of others. But hey, maybe they just don't have sufficient experience.

And just so that nobody gets me wrong: Right, in an extremely "controlled environment", you may not have to ever adjust anything. But we typically only find those very controlled environments in limited contexts. Such as well-rehearsed musical shows, tribute acts and on the big stages of this world. Where the conditions are almost 100% identical each evening. Similar stage and venue sizes, same monitoring (typically IEM), same FOH personnel.
Add to this that I have sometimes found some live stuff of the very people coming up with these claims. More often than not it was just a sad affair, to put it carefully.

Also, I may as well just want to use slightly different core sounds, even for the same kinda gig (I can usually allow myself doing so).



Yeah well. This is how I used the Floor. Had a handful of huge, complexed kitchen sink presets (one for each possible situation). And while it was working fine, these were the relevant things annoying me:
- Not enough switches to accomodate such a complexed preset. I typically used 4stomps/4snaps mode and sometimes switched to 10 stomp mode, but I could've used much more switches.
- Hardly possible to keep track of such patch creatures. Just some days ago I looked at one of my Floor patches (in HXN) and didn't even know what it worked like.
- You will very likely still run into limits, regardless whether it's organisational or DSP limits.

Spreading these things over different patches is a lot more efficient in my book. As an example, just on that little gig two days ago, I already used more FX on a single gig than ever in the HX-verse (I only checked them briefly to see whether they were working, but still). That was only possible because I could spread them over 5 patches, with 2 dedicated FX switches per patch only.

So: Global Blocks FTW!

It’s all about use case. I have no problem balancing snapshots/presets live and it’s easy enough to create a new couple of favorites for amps/cabs if I need to put different effects on a different preset for live use. Assigning the global EQ to stage monitor and letting FOH handle their own EQ is also pretty easy, but I’m playing originals and only moving between 1-4 presets during a gig that have all be dialed in at band volume. For my use I wouldn’t want to edit my delay on one preset and have that effect any other presets because those presets have totally different settings for a reason.

 

[JiveTurkey]

There's no reason in any world I would move from a HX to a GT. If I was enjoying the sounds produced by the HX, at least. I prefer (specific) Boss tones and fx by a large margin but everything else comparatively is a hard no.

 

[Sascha Franck]

For my use I wouldn’t want to edit my delay on one preset and have that effect any other presets because those presets have totally different settings for a reason.

With my new setup, I can have it either way. And I used both options already.

 

[Sascha Franck]

There's no reason in any world I would move from a HX to a GT.

That's exactly why I use both in one setup.

 

[banned]

From Pedalplayground, may not be 100% accurate.

Footswitch spacing from narrowest to widest horizontally: QC/Ampero Stage, GT-1000, Helix Floor, FM9, Kemper Stage.

View attachment 33225

The difference between the QC/Ampero vs GT-1000 is pretty marginal.
I think the QC feels cramped because its second row of switches is so close to the first.

If we instead stack them based on vertical switch spacing, the lineup looks like this:

View attachment 33226

The QC remains the tightest, the Boss and Ampero switch around, while Fractal becomes the king of vertical spacing.

Based on that 2nd image, the Boss is the absolute tightest I'd go to in terms of vertical spacing - I think QC is too tight. Ampero looks good.

 

[JiveTurkey]

With my new setup, I can have it either way. And I used both options already.

I don't like Helix amps so I would just stick to the GT

 

[Sascha Franck]

Based on that 2nd image, the Boss is the absolute tightest I'd go to in terms of vertical spacing

Possibly the same here. As said, no issues during the last gig. QC would be too small.
Fwiw, I have european size 46-47 (12-13 US size) feet and they're pretty wide, yet no issues.

 

[Sedaxel]

Possibly the same here. As said, no issues during the last gig. QC would be too small.
Fwiw, I have european size 46-47 (12-13 US size) feet and they're pretty wide, yet no issues.

God, you have truly accurate stomping abilities.

I've got a 45 size and in always afraid of switching what I shouldn't...

 

[Sascha Franck]

God, you have truly accurate stomping abilities.

I've got a 45 size and in always afraid of switching what I shouldn't...

Well, in fact, some of my shoes are still in 45, but for, say, Chucks, I need 46 and I recently had to buy new football shoes and defenitely needed 47 because all other sizes were so slim they'd hurt.

 

[Shredder777]

With my new setup, I can have it either way. And I used both options already.

What is the rationale to have both? Is it so you have instant patch switching with the HX? So you can AB between an HX amp and a GT amp without having to wait on the HX?

Or do you just like the amp on the HX better and the FX on the Boss? If so I think there are better amp in a box choices to supplement the GT. You might try a Zoom MS80IR+. ToneX. Or Friedman IR-X.

 

[Sascha Franck]

What is the rationale to have both? Is it so you have instant patch switching with the HX? So you can AB between an HX amp and a GT amp without having to wait on the HX?

It's all written in this very thread, but in a nutshell: I want my amp sounds (and some other FX "items") to be global. The same throughout all patches I might use on a given gig. This is what the GT-1000 is providing, but unfortunately the dirt amps aren't anything to write home about. That's where the Stomp kicks in. And it's fitting absolutely well in my "amp sounds need to be global" concept as I will never ever switch a patch on the Stomp during a gig.

Or do you just like the amp on the HX better and the FX on the Boss?

Correct.

If so I think there are better amp in a box choices to supplement the GT. You might try a Zoom MS80IR+. ToneX. Or Friedman IR-X.

No. The Stomp is one of the best choices for this very setup. I absolutely like the amp sounds, I can chose from a lot and also add some other funky things if needed. The Zoom is *way* too fiddly to operate and only supports MIDI through some hacks. The ToneX has a horrible UI and way less on offer (outside the amp stuff) than the Stomp. The Friedman was on my radar for a while but is way limited. Could as well just kept using my Amplifirebox.
Seriously, the Stomp seems to be *the* perfect companion for the GT.

 

[banned]

It's all written in this very thread, but in a nutshell: I want my amp sounds (and some other FX "items") to be global. The same throughout all patches I might use on a given gig. This is what the GT-1000 is providing, but unfortunately the dirt amps aren't anything to write home about. That's where the Stomp kicks in. And it's fitting absolutely well in my "amp sounds need to be global" concept as I will never ever switch a patch on the Stomp during a gig.



Correct.



No. The Stomp is one of the best choices for this very setup. I absolutely like the amp sounds, I can chose from a lot and also add some other funky things if needed. The Zoom is *way* too fiddly to operate and only supports MIDI through some hacks. The ToneX has a horrible UI and way less on offer (outside the amp stuff) than the Stomp. The Friedman was on my radar for a while but is way limited. Could as well just kept using my Amplifirebox.
Seriously, the Stomp seems to be *the* perfect companion for the GT.

So clean amps from Boss and Dirty amps from Stomp? Is that the setup?

 

[Sascha Franck]

So clean amps from Boss and Dirty amps from Stomp? Is that the setup?

Precisely. Thought about slapping one half (the Stomp has sufficient CPU juice to run two completely separate amp paths) in each of the GT loops and use the Stomp cleans, too, but at my testgig the cleans were just fine. Which is great as I have more Stomp-juice for whatever things and can use the second loop for the MS-50.

 

[Orvillain]

Cons:

- No idea where to start, but the amps are an important thing for sure.
WTF? If this is the best Boss could come up with when others, such as FAS, Line 6, Atomic, Headrush, Strymon and whomelse already pretty much nailed amp modeling (yes, to varying degrees, but you get the gist), then they just don't deserve to be named among them at all. By now even the cheaper offerings such as NUX, Mooer and even Donner, etc. mop the floor with Boss' modeling.
The main reason for this dilemma isn't even necessarily the overall sound of their amps but their dynamics. Each and every (!) amp model is compressing way too much. The only useful one not doing it all too much would be the "natural" amp ("transparent" as well, but that one just sucks because of the useless tone controls), which is sort of saving the unit for me (more on that possibly later). Once you've played one of the better modelers, the GT modeling really pales. To put it mildly. The kind of compression also isn't feeling like an amp starting to pump, like an organic "breathe" or whatever. No, it's just cheap, digital compression.
The amps are so bad I'm actually almost shocked (and I have no idea why I didn't notice it some years back when I had one borrowed for 2 days or so). Even worse: That kinda compression can't be "unheard" or rather "un-feeled".
But then: For the kind of jobs where I will use the GT on it's own, this very compression will possibly even be kinda helpful (we shall see, I'll report...).
Also: The "natural" amp will likely be able to serve fine as a pedal platform - and it might perhaps be what I'll end up using the unit the most (in case I don't sell it).

Yknow, I'm quite happy that we agree on this! The Boss modelling is just ... well it is a nothingness. A black void of misery and decay. They should've just not. The should've just noped out of it. They should've dove out the window like:

 

[Sascha Franck]

Sometimes I think I'm just borderline crazy (or that I might even have crossed that line already...). I mean, it's 2024, I have decades of experience with all that nonsense on my belt and instead of finally buying, say, an FM9, I'm somehow cobbling together a setup based on two devices that both have very obvious shortcomings.
And as if that wasn't enough already, as both of these devices don't come with sufficient onboard controls for my usecase, I'm even hacking together an Android-based (Android, platform of cheapskating losers!) control thingy using Bluetooth (notoriously known as the most stable protocol in the world...).

To add to this, let me quote myself:

But as said before, this has got to be the least inspiring unit I ever bought. Not even the slightest hint of a honeymoon.

So, there's all that. And it's all still somewhat true.

And yet, that testgig was a blast already - and I can't remember the last time I had so much fun slapping some presets together as I had yesterday. Yes, the initial editing is quite cumbersome, but the reward is pretty much happening instantly. And once the patches are done, there's possibly no easier to "maintain" setup than this (I will have to keep track of how things interact, though, already created a doc with all relevant info, so I don't scratch my head when loading a patch some months after its creation).

Really, can't wait to slap it all onto my board - unfortunately, my Thomann order will only arrive tomorrow (or maybe even not...). At least for now my feeling is that the GT and Stomp have only been waiting for Mr. Franckenstein to bring it all together.
Once done and configured, I'll do a little video.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Thomann delivery! Preliminary test-setup:

What could I possibly say? This is an incredibly flexible and very likely fun to work with board. Sound quality is absolutely pristine, as little noise as it gets for all those gain stages.
Not particularly happy with the location of the PSU, but it'll all be hidden nicely later on (sawing and cable management first...) . And in case this stands the test of time (hence around some months of testgigs), I will likely slap together a custom DIY kit board.
Will also have to figure out the CME WIDI thing and then TouchOSC. Good things still don't come for free - but I could already gig this board for the rest of my life without running into any serious shortcomings.

 

[Sascha Franck]

So, anyone familiar with the CME WIDI jack and Android devices? I have a Samsung A55 phone and a Samsung Tab A9+ tablet. Connecting the phone works every bit as described here, but with the tablet it just doesn't. Any clues?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Got it. Location services were switched off (stupid idea that these are required).

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, now that this is sorted, some more annoyances. Just the common stuff when slapping pedalboards together. Wanted to have the WIDI Jack sitting on the GT, so it's nicely hidden, but then realized, that my angled MIDI cable wouldn't work along with either the WIDI plug or the USB plug. Well, getting along with it somehow, until a new MIDI cable arrives, I'll run the WIDI Jack into the Stomp. Next issue: I was quite happy to see that the WIDI Jack would work with bus power from either device. Just that I can't use it because I need the output to run from the Stomp to the GT.
All a big "GRR!".

---

Anyhow, and that's the main thing: It really seems as if everything would be working. Had two testpatches, could control anything I'd ever want via some "MIDI controller" tablet app (something pretty simple, had no time to get into TouchOSC yet). Incredible, you should've seen my big grin.

Whatever, setting up MIDI controls for the GT is the definition of a nightmare (in fact, setting up any assignments is). With something such as the HX devices around, with synths featuring way easier controller assign since almost decades, it's completely beyond me how Boss hasn't changed their stupid assign paradigm in ages.
For a start, 16 assignments per patch are very little if you really want to control most of your global blocks. 5-7 of them are used up in each patch already anyway (for switching duties), add amp gain, volume, BMT and you're left with pretty little headroom. No idea how this is so crippled when the HX allows for 64 assignments per patch.
I also wish that global blocks would have an option for global assignments. As is, you gotta repeat it for each patch - fortunately, my current 5 main patches are just a variation of one basic patch, so I can do it for that basic patch and re-save it with variations, but this certainly isn't anything you want to do "after the fact".
Then, why isn't there any MIDI learn? It's 2024, FFS!

---

And oh, (/Cordy headline) Boss: We need to talk about the encoders!
Seriously, they seem to be high quality, both rotating and clicking supply a very solid feel. Fine. But: In both preset and manual mode, the click-switches serve *zero* other purposes than shifting in/decrements to +/-10. What the f***?!? Not only could they have stolen Zoom's acceleration scheme (which works very well), no, in both preset and manual mode, you usually don't even need large value changes. All I usually want to do is finetunings. For the main "homework", I'm using edit mode.
And now, if those encoders weren't wasted, just imagine how wonderful navigation could be if they could be assigned to call up one block each. Click encoder and *bam* there's your drive block.
I'd likely assign my global blocks there and be done with adjusting things in a heartbeat.

Really, as much as I'm absolutely excited, I could easily torture someone at Boss a bit.

 

[Shredder777]

Ok, now that this is sorted, some more annoyances. Just the common stuff when slapping pedalboards together. Wanted to have the WIDI Jack sitting on the GT, so it's nicely hidden, but then realized, that my angled MIDI cable wouldn't work along with either the WIDI plug or the USB plug. Well, getting along with it somehow, until a new MIDI cable arrives, I'll run the WIDI Jack into the Stomp. Next issue: I was quite happy to see that the WIDI Jack would work with bus power from either device. Just that I can't use it because I need the output to run from the Stomp to the GT.
All a big "GRR!".

---

Anyhow, and that's the main thing: It really seems as if everything would be working. Had two testpatches, could control anything I'd ever want via some "MIDI controller" tablet app (something pretty simple, had no time to get into TouchOSC yet). Incredible, you should've seen my big grin.

Whatever, setting up MIDI controls for the GT is the definition of a nightmare (in fact, setting up any assignments is). With something such as the HX devices around, with synths featuring way easier controller assign since almost decades, it's completely beyond me how Boss hasn't changed their stupid assign paradigm in ages.
For a start, 16 assignments per patch are very little if you really want to control most of your global blocks. 5-7 of them are used up in each patch already anyway (for switching duties), add amp gain, volume, BMT and you're left with pretty little headroom. No idea how this is so crippled when the HX allows for 64 assignments per patch.
I also wish that global blocks would have an option for global assignments. As is, you gotta repeat it for each patch - fortunately, my current 5 main patches are just a variation of one basic patch, so I can do it for that basic patch and re-save it with variations, but this certainly isn't anything you want to do "after the fact".
Then, why isn't there any MIDI learn? It's 2024, FFS!

---

And oh, (/Cordy headline) Boss: We need to talk about the encoders!
Seriously, they seem to be high quality, both rotating and clicking supply a very solid feel. Fine. But: In both preset and manual mode, the click-switches serve *zero* other purposes than shifting in/decrements to +/-10. What the f***?!? Not only could they have stolen Zoom's acceleration scheme (which works very well), no, in both preset and manual mode, you usually don't even need large value changes. All I usually want to do is finetunings. For the main "homework", I'm using edit mode.
And now, if those encoders weren't wasted, just imagine how wonderful navigation could be if they could be assigned to call up one block each. Click encoder and *bam* there's your drive block.
I'd likely assign my global blocks there and be done with adjusting things in a heartbeat.

Really, as much as I'm absolutely excited, I could easily torture someone at Boss a bit.

The GT1000 UI is pretty much the GT10/100 UI from 2005 with less encoders and smaller font. The board is physically smaller and has more footswitches. The assisgnment and midi scheme is the same old boss stuff from two decades ago. Which is both good and bad.

From memory, the GT1000 was released in 2018, and it had new AIRD models, a janky attempt at IR integration (where most people just used the stock cabs) and a new ability to have multiple path splits. Higher internal bitrate, and probably better converters (which won't stand up in 2024).

I bought one in 2021 and having also just purchased a G11, the UI was laughably bad (as in worse than the GT100) and it didn't sound better than the Zoom. I liked the new Zoom models more. And it felt very limited because the stock cabs were pretty much what everyone ends up using. And 85% of the models were the old BS models that no one liked.

So faced between keeping an overpriced Zoom instant gratification device that looks like a toy, or the Boss assign switching/midi integration powerhouse, I kept the Zoom.

AS soon as Boss can develop a credible touch UI with easy IR handling while keeping the low latency, I will buy one and NEVER look back.