Boss GT-1000 (and possibly other things Boss...)

[overtone]

This is a great writeup and it matches much of my experience with the GT-1000 Core. The hardware itself was really solid but at the end of the day, low latency, quick boot time and great form factor didn't mean much when the thing was a slog to use and uninspiring to play. I'd read good things about the MDP and "X" amps but came away very unimpressed.

I did enjoy the FX and delays though, and would probably have held on to it for longer if using it only for those duties. However I was looking for a small all-in-one device, and was infinitely happier when I flipped it for a Stomp.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Break while I am preparing a bank for tomorrows gig, time for a pretty frustrating side note: This GT purchase had a quite disillusioning effect on me.

I thought the two of us would get along well pretty much instantly and have at least sort of a good time.
But as said before, this has got to be the least inspiring unit I ever bought. Not even the slightest hint of a honeymoon. Had I bought a GX unit instead, I'd possibly at least enjoy onboard editing a bit. With the GT, it's all trying to get along. Onboard editing is pretty much impossible when you want to avoid heart attacks and the editors are a most unpleasant thing to open, even just their startup time is by now making me angry-ish (and I usually really don't care much about such things).
Now, I wouldn't even care about all of that at all in case I was rewarded by sounds I really like. But that's just not happening.

It even goes as far as the thing taking pedals at least "differently". Certainly has a lot to do with placing them in a loop, but that's a requirement. I need to keep readjusting the amp type I'm using as a platform (so far it's the Boutique amp, but I may go back to Natural) and I need to readjust my pedals. Only to end up with sounds I wished were different.

With the HX Stomp, also using the internal FX loop, I can use pretty much any typically pedal platform friendly amps and call it a day after seconds.

Fwiw, doesn't mean the sounds I'm getting are particularly bad, but my pedals sound and act noticeably different compared to running them in any other environment - even so different that I possibly wouldn't have purchased them if that was my first impression. Whenever I find the time, I will try to record some meaningful comparisons.

Fwiw #2: Admittedly, so far I'm a bit in nitpicking mode. As I knew I'd be fine with anything else, I really only took care about the core sounds - and pretty obviously, in my controlled studio monitor or headphone environment, the GT simply can't hold a candle against some other contenders (most notably the HX stuff but also my Amplifirebox). Things will be quite different live and I might even be in for a surprise. But so far, well, see above.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, I really needed something to save the day for me. So I slapped the Amplifirebox (running my pedal platform amp patch that I've been using for pretty much any dirt on pretty much any gig during the last 2-3 years) and a bunch of pedals into the loop of the GT - and phew, things are fine. There might be some sort of coloration detectable on detailed inspection (in fact, there is), but it's all very well within my tolerance threshold, so maybe after all, I'll be fine. Sure, requires having the AFB on the larger board, but on the upside, having complete WYSIWYG control of the main sound unit is great.

On the downside, for me this defenitely proves just how bad most Boss amps are.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, getting closer. And maybe real close to what could become the best setup I've used in a while.
Simply tried the HX Stomp in the GT's loop. Now, as I've been the victim of some less than ideal scenarios, latency has been a concern, but the entire shebang of Boss GT, HX Stomp in a loop with an amp/cab block loaded kicks in at just around 3ms, which is fantastic.
I guess this will be what I'll go for tomorrow.
Progress!

(Still worrying about what I'll do for "just the GT" gigs, something I also bought the unit for...)

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yet some more musings.
While checking out the HX Stomp in the FX loop of the GT, I noticed how much the internal cabs suck, unless you're using them for the internal amps. The IR loader seems to be doing something funky, too, let alone that IRs are very low in volume, compared to the internal cabs. Makes straight comparisons a pain. How is it that just Boss is getting all this so wrong?

Anyhow, during my tests I remembered that the Stomp can pretty well run two amps (at least of those I'm interested in) and two IR blocks a) simultaneously and b) on completely independent paths for left and right. So I can just slap one path into FX loop 1, the other into FX loop 2. Works a treat, yay! And there's still a little CPU juice left for an internal drive.

So, while I could still rip the head of someone at Boss off for their miserable amp modeling affair, this starts to really, really look promising.
I will set up the two HX amps exactly as I'm doing it since ages, namely one clean channel for cleans and a tiny bit of hair (through analog pedals), then a pedal platform channel channel for all things dirt. The HX patch will never be switched during gigs, all sound variations come from analog pedals and the GT's FX.
I will then try to get MIDI Thru from the Stomp to the GT working the next days (dreaded MIDI cables are wherever, didn't need them in ages), the Stomp itself will either be connected via USB or a CME WIDI jack and I will then use a MIDI controller tool (likely TouchOSC) on my tablet to control all the things working globally in this setup (the HX amps, the master pre-boost level (compression), master lead EQ level and likely the master reverb and master delay mix parameters of the GT.

All of this will likely fit on my old pedalboard (plus quite some of my dirt pedals, work from a single PSU, offer redundancy straight on the board (unless both the GT and Stomp go down) and it'll as well be less complicated as it might seem at first. And most of all: It'll likely sound pretty great.

Things I noticed:
- Boss amp modeling sucks indeed. Oh, did I mention that already? What a dissapointment.
- Boss hardware is really, really solid.
- Apart from some things most companies don't seem to get right (mainly pitch shifting but also filters and such), the array of FX the GT delivers is pretty well laid out and sounding really nice. Nothing exactly special but extremely solid and easy to dial in.
- HX amp modeling is in fact among the best (especially all their newer creations are).
- Don't sell your Stomp (not that I'd considered it)!

Unfortunately, I will not manage to slap that setup together until tomorrow, so a simplified version will have to do (Stomp in just one loop, no nifty control, old sideboard).

 

[Sascha Franck]

Couldn't stop just yet. So: It *ALL* works!

- Android Smartphone/Tablet connected to Stomp via USB, running an extremely limited but working little app called "MIDI Controller".
- All relevant parameters on the Stomp can now be controlled from large faders on a touchscreen. And as I don't switch patches, there will be no parameter jumps or non reflected changes.
- MIDI Thru to GT works flawlessly.
- All relevant parameters of my global blocks on the GT can be controlled on the GT.

What does all that result in?
I can now create a setup that is pretty close to, say, some loopswitcher based rigs /w programmable switching and programmable FX where they're making sense whereas any amount of parameters will be at least sort of analog, hence not subject to switching along with programs.
This is exactly how I want it. All core sound parameters are now more or less fully WYSIWYG, so I can quickly adjust them to accomodate the situation. And I can still switch GT patches to use the entire palette of FX available without getting lost in a kitchen sink preset.

Initial parameter assignment will possibly be a horrible task (and likely will have to be repeated often for the Stomp as you lose all assignments as soon as you change amps), but once things are done, given currently available options on the modeling market, at least in terms of handling, this will likely be as close to my ideal setup as it gets.

 

[Shredder777]

I don't think I will buy a non-Boss MFX ever again. They get the latency right. In this world of profiling pedals, latency is more important than it ever was.

What I really want is an updated version of the MS3. A switcher with a GT1000 level amp/ir/eq/ns block, but with 5 loops and at least two solenoids. And make the first two loops analog.

 

[kartikg3]

- Boss amp modeling sucks indeed. Oh, did I mention that already? What a dissapointment.

Apart from the compressed feel, what are your other qualms with the modeling they present?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Apart from the compressed feel, what are your other qualms with the modeling they present?

Well, for me, the compression is already enough. For my taste, it's just no tasty "sag" or whatever, but digital with a tendency to even produce artefacts (just turn the natural amp model up so it starts to get hairy and play some notes in the higher midrange through a bridge pickup).
Also, while certainly related to the compression issue, there's no great marshall-ish amp for lower gains. X-Crunch is actually a sort of decent amp (something I will use when running the GT without additional sidecars), but once you're in lower gain areas, the compression gets very noticeable for me (and unfortunately it's something I can't "unfeel") - and that's precisely where Marshalls rule, there's still lots of dynamics even if they're quite hairy already.

In addition, the amps don't take external pedals very well. I think this is again at least partially related to the compression happening, I already noticed that in the past with some things that were notoriously un-dynamic, such as the first and second generation PODs (and fwiw, quite ironically, the better dynamics have been the reason for me to choose a GT-5 over a POD 2 and a GT-10 over a POD XT back in the days), but also with some models in the Amplifirebox.

And then there's the cab situation. Not only is it kinda awkward to deal with for a start (especially in case you're using IRs), the internal cabs are pretty strange, too. They really only seem to work well with the internal amps. Been running some of my HX favourites through them and it really sounded pretty bad. The IR functionality is quite weird, too. Not only is the loading process as convoluted as it gets (they're really doing this through the MIDI protocol as it seems - which is completely unbelievable in 2024), IRs also don't seem to sound the same once loaded in the GT (I'll do some more thorough exploration when I find the time).
Add to this that neither the internal cabs nor the IR slots offer any kind of simple EQ, not even a low or high cut. That's pretty, pretty bad.

So, all these combined make up for a pretty much less than shiny experience.
And fwiw, it's of course really just a matter of taste, you can certainly get things done using just the Boss amps, but when I connected the Amplifirebox and later on the HX Stomp and did some comparisons, it was absolutely night and day for me.
And while I will defenitely create some patches for running the GT just on its own, I will defenitely use some additional stuff whenever I can - which is quite saddening as there's some gigs I play here and there, which defenitely don't need much stuff to be carried around. Maybe I'll get a Tonex One for just those particular gigs and use it for the dirts.

 

[the-trooper]

Apart from the compressed feel, what are your other qualms with the modeling they present?

For those reading this thread it's worth noting that @Sascha Franck is a professional complainer

 

[Sascha Franck]

For this reading this thread it's worth noting that @Sascha Franck is a professional complainer

No. I'm a thorough analyst with sort of high standards.

 

[laxu]

Anyhow, during my tests I remembered that the Stomp can pretty well run two amps (at least of those I'm interested in) and two IR blocks a) simultaneously and b) on completely independent paths for left and right. So I can just slap one path into FX loop 1, the other into FX loop 2. Works a treat, yay! And there's still a little CPU juice left for an internal drive.

So, while I could still rip the head of someone at Boss off for their miserable amp modeling affair, this starts to really, really look promising.
I will set up the two HX amps exactly as I'm doing it since ages, namely one clean channel for cleans and a tiny bit of hair (through analog pedals), then a pedal platform channel channel for all things dirt. The HX patch will never be switched during gigs, all sound variations come from analog pedals and the GT's FX.
I will then try to get MIDI Thru from the Stomp to the GT working the next days (dreaded MIDI cables are wherever, didn't need them in ages), the Stomp itself will either be connected via USB or a CME WIDI jack and I will then use a MIDI controller tool (likely TouchOSC) on my tablet to control all the things working globally in this setup (the HX amps, the master pre-boost level (compression), master lead EQ level and likely the master reverb and master delay mix parameters of the GT.

I can't help but feel this might lead you to just say "To hell with it, I'll just buy a Helix Floor!" at the end because it has all become too complicated. Still, it's fun to experiment...

 

[Sascha Franck]

I can't help but feel this might lead you to just say "To hell with it, I'll just buy a Helix Floor!" at the end because it has all become too complicated.

Seriously, no - once the basic work is done, this is far away from being complicated anymore. Apart from exchanging some of the "additional/fun" FX block's contents, I will end up having to never edit the GT anymore, all parameters I need to adjust will be global and taken care of by a neat TouchOSC screen. Pretty much the same goes for the Stomp where I will select a single patch with dual amps and maybe some dirt boxes (not sure about the CPU usage, but so far I can indeed add 3 drives, one per each switch). All of this will as well be controlled by TouchOSC. In the end, the only things I will ever have to bow down for is some analog dirt pedals. Not sure how much of those I will add, maybe just 2-3 selected ones doing things the HX drives don't.

And fwiw, I already have half of it running (will puzzle it all together in the next weeks) - and all of a sudden it's more inspiring than anything else I was using in the last years, including the Helix Floor. In addition, it's allowing me to do some things I always wanted. Such as simulating an analog loopswitcher based setup, just requiring a fraction of the space while being way cheaper and more reliable. Or as controlling everything relevant straight from a single application on a tablet.
Fwiw, regarding the controller aspect, I'm pretty much sure that after a while things will condense to, say, around 10-15 things I really adjust regularly, so I may as well get a hardware knob box with stock (!) pots - yeah, no endless encoders, simply because all controlled values will work globally, which is exactly where standard pots make a lot of sense.

Anyhow, for now I'm quite a happy camper and extremely excited about how it'll all turn out.

 

[aivoryuk]

The IR functionality is quite weird, too. Not only is the loading process as convoluted as it gets (they're really doing this through the MIDI protocol as it seems - which is completely unbelievable in 2024), IRs also don't seem to sound the same once loaded in the GT (I'll do some more thorough exploration when I find the time).
Add to this that neither the internal cabs nor the IR slots offer any kind of simple EQ, not even a low or high cut. That's pretty, pretty bad.

Will be interested to hear your V ews on the IR capabilities as I've been looking at some boss products for the extended IR lengths and overall latency.

 

[Sedaxel]

Glad to see you enjoy this rig build. I can't help but thinking more or less like laxu. As I've been reading your reports about the building journey, I've thought, hell, if it wasn't for the fun itself, I'd have thrown all of that away and just simplify with any other unit.

But who am I to tell, when I've been nodding around with a Pi, ELK OS, GuitarML, Linux, PiPedal, NAM and whatnot... And still do.

One thing is clear for me, though: GT-1000 is way less attractive than it was a week ago (which actually wasn't too much either).

That said, I'm enjoying big time my MS-3 coupled with a NC. I like the effects, the flexibility and the versatility (it serves very well with pedals, digital Sims, real amps... Or all mixed together).

I have the feeling that Boss started to get lost when IRs appeared in the market. They didn't managed to get that train correctly. I still remember the GT-1000 launch, that was a disaster mostly for the horrendous IR implementation. I think they never recovered from that (still "fixed" an IR issue in the gx-100 recently).

 

[Sascha Franck]

Will be interested to hear your V ews on the IR capabilities as I've been looking at some boss products for the extended IR lengths and overall latency.

I'll try to find out about things the next days...

Glad to see you enjoy this rig build. I can't help but thinking more or less like laxu. As I've been reading your reports about the building journey, I've thought, hell, if it wasn't for the fun itself, I'd have thrown all of that away and just simplify with any other unit.

Well, some points:

- No, I don't particularly enjoy all this. Sure, as someone being interested in all this stuff, I'm as well interested whether I can make things work the way I want them to work. But I hate it to permanently run against some (not exactly foreseeable) walls. And as you might've read, there's plenty of those walls in the Boss-universe.
I also absolutely hated the moment when I was ripping apart my old pedalboard yesterday. After all, it has served me incredibly well for the last 2-3 years. Which also means that any new setup needs to pass a pretty high benchmark already.

- I really don't think there's a unit to "simplify" things. There might be some different solutions who might sort of serve my needs as well, but they would either lack some other things or won't be exactly simplified, either. And I have actually thought about all that stuff a lot. As you will know already, setup handling is very high on my priority list and there's some particular things I really want to have (such as global control over several vital parameters). Having said that...

- As far as things look right now and in case I'll be happy with the outcome of todays gig, I think my efforts will be worth every single moment of tinkering, fooling around with setups and finally even modifying the guts of my pedalboard. And as said before, once the initial work is done, this should be an incredibly comfortable to deal with setup.

But we shall see. Time to pack this temporary mess up for the gig.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Thanks, this thread has completely turned me off trying anything from Boss for this generation. Saved me a few hundred dollars because I was getting curious about the GX-10/100. All the global blocks in the world don’t matter if you have to stick another thing in the loop to get competitive sounds out of it.

 

[kartikg3]

Thanks, this thread has completely turned me off trying anything from Boss for this generation. Saved me a few hundred dollars because I was getting curious about the GX-10/100. All the global blocks in the world don’t matter if you have to stick another thing in the loop to get competitive sounds out of it.

If you can get your hands and try one out, please do. I think tone is very subjective and you may have a different opinion. I certainly do, and I am glad I got the GX100 before this thread unraveled. Its a solid unit, simplified my setup gave me the bread and butter, and probably is going to keep me from tweaking too much and focus on guitar chops instead. I made conscious choice on the compromises. Just my few cents. Cheers.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Thanks, this thread has completely turned me off trying anything from Boss for this generation. Saved me a few hundred dollars because I was getting curious about the GX-10/100. All the global blocks in the world don’t matter if you have to stick another thing in the loop to get competitive sounds out of it.

Let me put it that way: The unit can work on its own. But if you're used to something else, you possibly won't have the same amount of fun.
As far as nested units go, I don't care for my somewhat larger main board, in fact, given my way of dealing with sounds (or rather: their organisation), I even think of it as an advance (simply because no other devices but the GTs and the Axe FX III offer global blocks).

Ok, showered, packed, gig time. "How to make a not too spectacular gig interesting!"

 

[Shredder777]

Thanks, this thread has completely turned me off trying anything from Boss for this generation. Saved me a few hundred dollars because I was getting curious about the GX-10/100. All the global blocks in the world don’t matter if you have to stick another thing in the loop to get competitive sounds out of it.

Its subjective. I have the same negative opinion of the Helix amps (although I haven't played a Helix since they updated anti aliasing a few years ago, so it may be better.)

I bought the GT1000 and ABed it with a Zoom G11 and returned the GT1000. The primary reason was the poor IR handing and the antiquated UI. Lots of people think the Zoom is a joke, but it sounds great and the IR handling is the best of any platform. And having owned Boss mfx for the past two decades, it was nice to break free of their tweaker nature, menu diving/assigns/etc. But its just a stepping stone until the next thing.

I am eagerly awaiting the next Boss flagship (if there is one.) If they can figure out IR management (offer thumb drive and usb loading), decouple the amps from the built in cabs, improve the UI, and keep latency low, I'm all in.

But I suspect Line6 will have a Helix2 in another year with profiling, all updated models, etc and it will be hard to pass up.