Boss GT-1000 (and possibly other things Boss...)

[Sascha Franck]

I really liked the GT1000 when I had it for 4cm use.

Many people complain about it being tone sucker, so that was something I was afraid about when slapping the Stomp into its FX loop - but while you may certainly be able to detect some "alterations" (because I'm absolutely not sure whether it's all that bad), for me it certainly doesn't do enough harm (if at all) to be up in arms.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Quoting myself:

Biggest issue, believe it or don't: The Stomp's power connector. I have no idea who had the idea to make this the *only* more or less widely used pedal with a barrel plug and an inner plugsize of 2.5mm (rather than just using the standard 2.1mm), but regardless of whom it was, he/she needs to change his/her medication.
Now, I do have several of these plugs readily soldered onto adapter cables, but none of them is angled - and I'm having a hard time finding an angled plug of that stupid format (unless it's from some dubious chinese maker on Amazon, will probably need 3 weeks to arrive and fall out on first contact as the plug will be too short...), so in case someone knows a decent one, I'm all ears.

Issue solved. Found an angled adapter straight at Thomann, great!

 

[ian_dissonance]

And where exactly does my guitar fit in that bag?

Fair point, is that a double gig bag? I probably wouldn’t put a guitar in a soft case with a bunch of loose shit anyways.

RE: Line 6 power bricks. They’ve been making goofy-ass decisions on size/shape/barrel diameter since at least the HD series. Those long adapters with the plugs angled wrong for literally any situation? Demote that guy to janitor. (Unless it’s DI, lol)

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fair point, is that a double gig bag?

Sure.

I probably wouldn’t put a guitar in a soft case with a bunch of loose shit anyways.

Rest assured, there's not *one* loose shit. It's all secured. Let alone it's in the other compartment, so what should happen?

Seriously, this is a really, really neat traveling solution when I need to take a train or so.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ok. I wanted to check the GT's IR accuracy (or lack thereof) and while doing so, I noticed that you can't use the internal cabs (and hence the loaded IRs) in case you have the amps switched off.
No, doesn't get in my way, but seriously, Boss? I mean. SE-RI-OUS-LY?!? How many more things will you get wrong?

I will test IR accuracy later on with the internal amps.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Ok. I wanted to check the GT's IR accuracy (or lack thereof) and while doing so, I noticed that you can't use the internal cabs (and hence the loaded IRs) in case you have the amps switched off.
No, doesn't get in my way, but seriously, Boss? I mean. SE-RI-OUS-LY?!? How many more things will you get wrong?

I will test IR accuracy later on with the internal amps.

There is some stupid, convoluted way to do it but I gave up remembering how years back. Ugh.

 

[Sedaxel]

IR management in Boss units has always been a disaster. Only God knows why.

 

[Sedaxel]

But I'm with Sascha in that the GT-1000 has the perfect form factor. Of all the "full footswitched" units, for me it's the more proportioned one. Small but not cramped, and reasonably lightweight.

The LT is too big and heavy (one of the reasons I got rid of it).

The QC is excessively cramped. I wouldn't be able to always stomp correctly.

Hotone stage, the same: cramped footswitches.

After the GT, I also like a lot the Kemper stage.

And for the "almost full footswitched" units, I like the most (hell!) the Headrush Core.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Playing around with the IR-2, and I swear it sounds better, even with stock cabs, than the GT-1000/GX-100. I'm really blown away with the Brit and Diamond.

 

[Sascha Franck]

There is some stupid, convoluted way to do it but I gave up remembering how years back. Ugh.

I found out, read on. For now, this is my base patch so far:

Upper half is the (internal) clean amp with the cab section. Mode is set to "recording", which is the mode allowing you to use IRs. Lower half is the FX loop with the Stomp. This is all running just great. Now, when I drag the cab down into the lower path, it will completely stop to work.
WHAT.THE.FUCK? already!
At first I thought that the cab would be embedded into the amp sound, regardless of where you place it. But that can't be it, because then it would stay active when dragging it. But it doesn't.

So what exactly is the condition under which this cab stays active? I'll tell you: the internal amp needs to be active and receiving a signal. No, I'm not kidding. This usually happens when the Divider switches to the upper path. And that's why it won't work in case the signal runs through the lower path. But when I set the Divider block to "dual", the cab becomes active all the time. I can then mute the upper path in the mixer module and use the cab just for the lower path.

Seriously, I'm having a hard time comprehending this. And an almost as hard time to write it because this is such a craze I possibly wouldn't believe it in case someone else wrote it, either. I do however kid you not. Took me quite some time to find out.

But ok, given you deal with the unit how Boss thinks you should, it might actually make a lot of sense (as in being able to select various output scenarios globally for either of the main or sub outs without having to modify any patches). But in case you want to work somewhat differently, this just sucks.

If it was after me, they could just keep things as they are and introduce a new IR option in the FX blocks or so.
Anyhow, personally I'm not affected, fortunately. But if I were to run an external amp sim with no cab on its own into the GT, I'd be at least in assignment hell, because (see above) that certainly doesn't work in any straight forward fashion.

 

[Shredder777]

There is some stupid, convoluted way to do it but I gave up remembering how years back. Ugh.

I had the GT1000 and the G11 on my desk. I returned the GT1000 because of how bad the IR/cab stuff was.

On the G11 you just stick a thumb drive in, scroll through the IRs and pick which one you want, then you can adjust the high/low pass filters with the encoders in the IR block. You can put the IR block whereever you want.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, quick comparison of the same IR loaded internally and externally. IR used was Leon Todds free TV Mix thing, GT amp is the X-Crunch.
Recorded a loop in the GT for better direct comparison (so I wouldn't get trapped somewhere in Boss' fancy "when will this cab block work" ideas) and then into Logic. Slapped the same IR onto it via Space Designer, normalized and trimmed both resulting files.
Fortunately, the difference really isn't too noticeable (and I'd say it sounds a tiny bit more "open" with the IR loaded inside the GT).
For a start, here's an MP3 with the two versions alternating like every 3 beats:


And in case someone's really interested, here's the two files in .wav format:

 

[aivoryuk]

Playing around with the IR-2, and I swear it sounds better, even with stock cabs, than the GT-1000/GX-100. I'm really blown away with the Brit and Diamond.

I'm looking at the IR-2 to be able to load 500ms IR's with a loaded down tube amp - so interesting to hear thoughts on it and also on the headphone output if it is noisy?

 

[laxu]

But I'm with Sascha in that the GT-1000 has the perfect form factor. Of all the "full footswitched" units, for me it's the more proportioned one. Small but not cramped, and reasonably lightweight.

The LT is too big and heavy (one of the reasons I got rid of it).

The QC is excessively cramped. I wouldn't be able to always stomp correctly.

Hotone stage, the same: cramped footswitches.

After the GT, I also like a lot the Kemper stage.

And for the "almost full footswitched" units, I like the most (hell!) the Headrush Core.

From Pedalplayground, may not be 100% accurate.

Footswitch spacing from narrowest to widest horizontally: QC/Ampero Stage, GT-1000, Helix Floor, FM9, Kemper Stage.

The difference between the QC/Ampero vs GT-1000 is pretty marginal.
I think the QC feels cramped because its second row of switches is so close to the first.

If we instead stack them based on vertical switch spacing, the lineup looks like this:

The QC remains the tightest, the Boss and Ampero switch around, while Fractal becomes the king of vertical spacing.

 

[Sedaxel]

Good info!

I thought the difference was a little more obvious.

Yeah, the second row makes a lot of the cramping feeling. But I also have "problems" with just one row. I used a lot a Mooer GE250 which has cramped footswitches (I think it´s similar to Hotone). I can work with it, but it´s not comfortable at all for me because I´m not skilled in that regard and have to pay attention and be careful when stomping.

I don´t have that problem with the MS-3.

And my absolute peace of mind is my GLab GSC-2, with well separated switches and alternated second row.

You´re guilty of making me like a little less the GT-1000 form factor from today on...

 

[Sascha Franck]

Footswitch spacing from narrowest to widest horizontally: QC/Ampero Stage, GT-1000, Helix Floor, FM9, Kemper Stage.

Fwiw, I did all that before, just too see whether a) the GT would fit into my plans and b) whether the switches would be fine regarding distance - which they are, the gig proved that. I might even have stepped on two switches at once here and there, but fortunately there's not one "press these two together" function in the GT, which is another thing that annoyed me on one gig with the Stomp.

The difference between the QC/Ampero vs GT-1000 is pretty marginal.

Given pretty much anything else, I possibly would have considered the Ampero (and very obviously, I also had the QC in mind, even if that'd cost me around 3 times as much, but you just gonna keep it on your radar when shopping modelers these days), but, well, global blocks are my best friend already. Also, as I'll never ever be switching patches on the Stomp on a single gig (unless L6 decides to add global blocks in FW 5.3, TBR autumn 2037), having all the dirt things outside of the GT is not even just not annoying (which it'd be in case I had to switch and save patches all the time) but even an advance as it adds the Stomp controls, more available knobs and some general additional fund (I should have plenty of CPU juice left on each Stomp patch I'll be using live).

Whatever, while there's an incredible amount of things just wrong (yes, not just weird but wrong) in Boss land, while the internal dirt amps will only get used when I'm using the unit standalone, I still think the two of us will become pretty good friends in the long run. And so far I'd pretty much bet it'll become a long run.

Oh, one "wrong" thing: Pretty much any ordinary momentary footswitch works in a "normally open" way. So it's closing contacts when pressed. Just in the utterly stupid Boss world that's different. And unlike what you'll find on many keyboards, they didn't add an inverse or even auto-detect function. So any normaly closed switch simply won't work (unless you're using it for tap tempo, which actually will work). Obviously, the reason for that is that they want to sell their footswitches. And while they're quite nice, Boss is asking obscene, apple-alike amounts of money for them. No way I'll ever pay €45 for a single momentary footswitch.
Anyhow, I ordered some switches that I'll slap into a case I have hanging around.

 

[laxu]

global blocks are my best friend already.

It's surprising how that is not a feature on most modelers. I think most of us want to keep the amp/cab the same and play around with fx around it. Then you run into the DSP limits of a particular modeler and need to switch to another preset, which won't easily match your amp settings from preset 1 without careful copy/paste of presets beforehand.

Scenes is supposed to be the workaround for this, but in reality unless you have FM9/QC level processing power it usually doesn't quite work out.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I found out, read on. For now, this is my base patch so far:

View attachment 33206

Upper half is the (internal) clean amp with the cab section. Mode is set to "recording", which is the mode allowing you to use IRs. Lower half is the FX loop with the Stomp. This is all running just great. Now, when I drag the cab down into the lower path, it will completely stop to work.
WHAT.THE.FUCK? already!
At first I thought that the cab would be embedded into the amp sound, regardless of where you place it. But that can't be it, because then it would stay active when dragging it. But it doesn't.

So what exactly is the condition under which this cab stays active? I'll tell you: the internal amp needs to be active and receiving a signal. No, I'm not kidding. This usually happens when the Divider switches to the upper path. And that's why it won't work in case the signal runs through the lower path. But when I set the Divider block to "dual", the cab becomes active all the time. I can then mute the upper path in the mixer module and use the cab just for the lower path.

Seriously, I'm having a hard time comprehending this. And an almost as hard time to write it because this is such a craze I possibly wouldn't believe it in case someone else wrote it, either. I do however kid you not. Took me quite some time to find out.

But ok, given you deal with the unit how Boss thinks you should, it might actually make a lot of sense (as in being able to select various output scenarios globally for either of the main or sub outs without having to modify any patches). But in case you want to work somewhat differently, this just sucks.

If it was after me, they could just keep things as they are and introduce a new IR option in the FX blocks or so.
Anyhow, personally I'm not affected, fortunately. But if I were to run an external amp sim with no cab on its own into the GT, I'd be at least in assignment hell, because (see above) that certainly doesn't work in any straight forward fashion.

If you search for posts by PAH at TGP (and maybe VGF?); he explains how to do it. You have to use the divider. It's 100% INSANE. It's a cab block FFS; let someone use it like they do on EVERY OTHER PLATFORM THAT EXISTS IN THE MODERN AGE and run an IR/cab block with whatever feeding it. Dumb beyond dumb.

 

[Sascha Franck]

If you search for posts by PAH at TGP (and maybe VGF?); he explains how to do it. You have to use the divider. It's 100% INSANE. It's a cab block FFS; let someone use it like they do on EVERY OTHER PLATFORM THAT EXISTS IN THE MODERN AGE and run an IR/cab block with whatever feeding it. Dumb beyond dumb.

I think his suggestions are similar to what I found out already (the GT-1000 at TOP has been one of the worthwhile things to visit anonymously every now and then...). And yes, it's super dumb (at least as the only option).

 

[Sascha Franck]

It's surprising how that is not a feature on most modelers. I think most of us want to keep the amp/cab the same and play around with fx around it.

Uh-Oh. Big. Can. Of. Worms. And I mean BIG! At least round certain necks of the woods... (as you will very likely know).
I'm working like that (2- or very rarely 3 channels of basic sounds all throughout, all further variations coming from additional dirt boxes and FX) for so long I can't even remember.
But when I entered TOP for the first time, I was almost lynched for several reasons.

- "It's so great to have a dedicated patch with dedicated amps, IRs and what not for each song and different scenes in it per part!"
Just that it isn't. At least not for the majority of us mere mortals. FOH folks will think about hiring an assassin if you keep throwing completely different sounds at them. Your bandmates won't be able to dial in your guitar on their monitors properly for the same reason. Even yourself won't be, because if you really try to mimic whatever famous sounds all the time, the levels will be completely over the place (unless you're doing a strict AC/DC cover show).
Let alone players way more up in the food chain seem to be doing just fine with 2 or 3 amp channels. Heck, Paul Gilbert would likely get along with one single patch and still play anything from Beatles to Sepultura as convincingly as it gets.

- "If you need to adjust sounds live, your patch programming skills are the fault!"
Yeah, right. As if Fletcher Munson didn't exist. As if people wouldn't usually pick harder live (which will throw all their balances between clean and dirt, and yes, that's an extremely common thing!). As if you'd know what kinda patches to bring with a telephone band or as a last minute sub.

- "No professionals will ever touch their amps during gigs!"
Just that they do. At least Robben Ford does. And Larry Carlton. And really gazillions of others. But hey, maybe they just don't have sufficient experience.

And just so that nobody gets me wrong: Right, in an extremely "controlled environment", you may not have to ever adjust anything. But we typically only find those very controlled environments in limited contexts. Such as well-rehearsed musical shows, tribute acts and on the big stages of this world. Where the conditions are almost 100% identical each evening. Similar stage and venue sizes, same monitoring (typically IEM), same FOH personnel.
Add to this that I have sometimes found some live stuff of the very people coming up with these claims. More often than not it was just a sad affair, to put it carefully.

Also, I may as well just want to use slightly different core sounds, even for the same kinda gig (I can usually allow myself doing so).

Then you run into the DSP limits of a particular modeler and need to switch to another preset, which won't easily match your amp settings from preset 1 without careful copy/paste of presets beforehand.

Scenes is supposed to be the workaround for this, but in reality unless you have FM9/QC level processing power it usually doesn't quite work out.

Yeah well. This is how I used the Floor. Had a handful of huge, complexed kitchen sink presets (one for each possible situation). And while it was working fine, these were the relevant things annoying me:
- Not enough switches to accomodate such a complexed preset. I typically used 4stomps/4snaps mode and sometimes switched to 10 stomp mode, but I could've used much more switches.
- Hardly possible to keep track of such patch creatures. Just some days ago I looked at one of my Floor patches (in HXN) and didn't even know what it worked like.
- You will very likely still run into limits, regardless whether it's organisational or DSP limits.

Spreading these things over different patches is a lot more efficient in my book. As an example, just on that little gig two days ago, I already used more FX on a single gig than ever in the HX-verse (I only checked them briefly to see whether they were working, but still). That was only possible because I could spread them over 5 patches, with 2 dedicated FX switches per patch only.

So: Global Blocks FTW!