Atomic Tonocracy (Inc NAM support)

Gotta be honest... against all of my initial gut feeling, I have installed the plugin. I'm quite impressed with the D-Rex model. It is a real shame there are only 10 amp models, and for my tastes, only the D-Rex model gives me the high-gain tones I would be after.... but.... I'm more cautiously optimistic about it to be honest.
 
Gotta be honest... against all of my initial gut feeling, I have installed the plugin. I'm quite impressed with the D-Rex model. It is a real shame there are only 10 amp models, and for my tastes, only the D-Rex model gives me the high-gain tones I would be after.... but.... I'm more cautiously optimistic about it to be honest.
Stoked that you're digging the D-Rex. As I mentioned earlier it is based on a 1993 Rev F, Dual Rectifier 2-Channel, 100w on modern voice. Matches very closely with my personal Recto.

So (to all interested in commenting) what are some of the high gainers you'd like to see in Tonocracy?
 
For me….. it’s expensive amps that would cost a fortune to buy. Wizard, Bogner’s, Diezels, Friedman, SLO, Fryette/VHT Pitbull/Deliverance/Sig X

Boutique/custom ones from small designers - Ground Zero, Monomyth, Headfirst, Omega, MGL, Gower, Lenz.

Cheap amps that are awesome to own but take up space so you have to prioritise a bit: Peavey JSX, XXX, VTM120, 5150’s, Laney VH100R/GH100L/Lionheart, Marshall 8100, SLX, DSL,
 
Stoked that you're digging the D-Rex. As I mentioned earlier it is based on a 1993 Rev F, Dual Rectifier 2-Channel, 100w on modern voice. Matches very closely with my personal Recto.

So (to all interested in commenting) what are some of the high gainers you'd like to see in Tonocracy?
The Bogner XTC 101b
Mezzabarba Mzero
Wizard Modern Classic
Mesa Triple Crown
 
Stoked that you're digging the D-Rex. As I mentioned earlier it is based on a 1993 Rev F, Dual Rectifier 2-Channel, 100w on modern voice. Matches very closely with my personal Recto.

So (to all interested in commenting) what are some of the high gainers you'd like to see in Tonocracy?
Marshall JVM410HJS - with all 12 modes captured, plus the mid-shift on the OD channels, and the built in gate.
Marshall JCM800 2203KK - The Kerry King signature, with the built in gate.
Fryette Sig:X - 3 channels; clean, crunch, lead effectively. But each channel has several switches to control the tone and gain.
Fryette Pitbull Ultralead - Never played one, always wanted to.
Diezel VH4 - I'd like an early 2000's silverface. The one I own is from 2001.
Diezel Herbert - monster amp!
Diezel D-Moll - again... monster amp.
Laney VH100R - This is a hotrodded JCM800 at heart, but it has its own thing going on.
Orange Rockerverb MKIII - both channels, with the built in attenuator.
Revv Generator 120 MKIII - These are all the rage in modelling land right now! And they sound great. 4 channels, each with a green, blue, and red "aggression" mode.
Mesa Boogie Badlander - you'd win all of the TGF souls for this one!
Mesa Boogie Triaxis with the 2:90 poweramp - speaks for itself.
Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier 3-channel multiwatt version - these sound a bit different to the 90's Rev F models.
Peavey 5150 block - the block letter version of the original 5150 amp. I'd take a 6505 as well.
Peavey 5150II - these sound a bit different too. 6505+ is the more modern equivalent. Same amp, different badge.
Fender EVH 5150III - these are the Fender 5150's and they do sound a lot different to the originals. There is the original 6L6 version in 100-watt and 50-watt, and then you've got the 100-watt 6L6 stealth, EL34 stealth, and the 50-watt equivalents too.
Bogner Uberschall - I've never played one, but they are loved. 100-watt EL34 high-gainer.
Bogner Ecstasy - Likewise.... 100-watt 6L6 high-gainer.
Soldano SLO100 - Speak for itself.
ENGL Powerball - Worth having one of these in the bank.
ENGL Savage - This is probably the more desired ENGL amp though I'd say.

All amps should have all modes and all switches, all baked into a single model. Personally, I think that is just about every high-gain tone anyone could want????
 
For all my gripes with ToneX its still an impressive product, it does a decent enough job, pedal is impressively priced etc etc. If I was capturing my own tones to use live I'd be willing to spend a day or so on fine tuning settings to luck out the best capture possible and then use it and be done.
Would be interesting to see how Amperium Live compares when it does the captures - I've tried the software version and liked it. It seems to be the best of both worlds with the capture and component modelling but it doesn't have the community like Tone X and NAM so I'm not sure I would want to invest.
 
All amps should have all modes and all switches, all baked into a single model
This is quite a big thing for me. Plugins don't have the same constrictions HW units have in this regard - big beautiful GUI's, all channels and modes combined into the same amp, give the feel and experience of using the real amps as close as possible. I know most guys in this sub forum are probably more used to using modellers, but I really think how the plugin looks is REALLY important when using plugins/software.

1699352760175.png

Screenshot 2023-11-07 at 10.26.24.png


One of these was released in 2015, the other is from this year. One sounds a hell of a lot better and more accurate than the other. Even this freeware version looks more like what comes to mind when you think "Friedman":

1699353039078.png
 
After using the software more, my gut feeling is that the product would have been stronger if (to begin with) it JUST focused on the capturing tech.

If it was $40-50, and was ONLY a plugin+standalone software for making Tonocracy captures with the existing tech/system, as well as for playing Tonocracy and NAM models.

If it features:

- Simple guided process for making models
- Levels automatically calibrated and stored as metadata
- Cloud training with queue system for sets of captures
- deep and easy to use system for entering metadata
- a cutting edge, smart browser for both finding AND organising both NAM and Tonocracy models (with the ability to add/edit metadata)
- user pages for the cloud, ability to search users, save as favourites, add as friends, share privately, "llke" etc
- Beautiful and simple UI with minimal clutter
- Continued support for OS updates, different DAW's, iOS/tablets etc


IMO that is a much clearer and more concise product, and it would entice a TON of users that haven't delved into NAM - either because of the need to work at different sample rates, who don't want to use Colab or manually process files, or who prefer having a company that offers support and updates rather than an open source platform. Its at a price that competes with what ToneX typically sells for and would improve a ton of aspects that users do not like about that ecosystem.

I think that could be built up and developed to support IR's in a slick and elegant way, then perhaps adding software to help create IR's (in the same way that it walks you through making captures).

I think when that is in a good spot, that can be incorporated into an all singing, all dancing behemoth plugin that does it all. Releasing that first would have bought more time to make more amp models/fx/cabs etc and made both feel more complete. Just personal opinion here, but I feel like with plugins its more often than not makes sense to fragment the software into smaller and cheaper blocks that are concise and THEN offer the do it all one. With HW units, its a little different because the HW has to perform the routing functions of the DAW, the I/O of the interface etc. Its working with totally different constraints.



At the same time, I also feel like the amp modelling side of Tonocracy would benefit from a similar level of focus. As it stands, the lines are pretty blurry between the modelled amps and the captures, and IMO the modelled amps SHOULD be the flagship. The GUI's should look the ABSOLUTE BEST they possibly can, and should visually match the pride and devotion thats gone into the modelling. The amp models should at least be on pair with what the competition offers, with amp modes and channels in the same UI, a dedicated modern cabinet section, (hopefully) the ability to match the poweramp/impedance behaviours with the loaded cabinet. If there is a limited amount of pedals, I don't think complex internal routing is THAT important - its so easy to route things in a DAW, and I think a vast majority of users are more than happy to just have guitar->pre FX->amp->cab->post FX. I think when there is a deep selection of FX and amp models to combine, the appeal of more complex routing becomes greater, but I think its a risky feature to add as it can bloat software up.

I also think it a massive oversight of the plugin to not support right clicking at all. Simple things like locking parameters, saving as default for blocks, copy and paste, MIDI learn, favourite etc could live in there.

Likewise, on the signal routing section, I would MUCH prefer to just right click somewhere on the line, and a contextual dropdown menu appears with categories with say:

- Amplifiers - > List of amps
- Captures -> Tonocracy
-> NAM
- FX -> Drives
-> Modulation
->Delay
->Reverb -> IR's -> HW Units -> Plates
-> Halls etc
-> Physical Units
- Cabinets -> Tonocracy
->User IR's

At any one point in time, I could be looking at the list with almost everything I am NOT looking for. The list on the left could be so much smarter if it was more contextual, had a search feature, tags, metadata, colours, graphics, deeper info etc. There are small graphics next to the name of each item in the list, but for instance the graphic for captures and algorithmic models are almost identical. And when looking at text, one could be a delay, one could be a capture, one could be a cab. This is where colours, graphics, context dependency all help you find what you are looking for faster and more elegantly.

Similarly, this:
tonocracy.jpg
Feels like such a waste of screen estate. All but 2 of the knobs are duplicated, and seeing both at the same time just looks odd and unnecessarily awkward to focus on. The numerical value could be displayed as a pop over the knobs, there could be an option for Skeu/flat design in preferences, deeper controls could be hidden or using a different type of knob to distinguish them.

Similarly, this is a user capture
Screenshot 2023-11-07 at 12.51.38.jpg


and this is an algorithm based model of a TOTALLY different amp:

Screenshot 2023-11-07 at 12.52.00.jpg


Our brain is automatically going to assume that the modelled amps are some kind of extention of captures, or maybe some sort of factory captures. Or maybe they just seemed like something added last minute reusing some UI elements. It doesn't make the algorithm modelled stuff SEEM like its the proudest achievement of cutting edge technology when its presented like this. The same is true for the JTM45, 1959 and BE100 all sharing the same UI elements.
 
After using the software more, my gut feeling is that the product would have been stronger if (to begin with) it JUST focused on the capturing tech.

If it was $40-50, and was ONLY a plugin+standalone software for making Tonocracy captures with the existing tech/system, as well as for playing Tonocracy and NAM models.
Agreed. I tried the demo today, and this would be a much more compelling product (to me) if it was 1/3 to 1/2 the price and focused more on the Captures and NAM integration.
 
Similarly, this:
tonocracy.jpg
Feels like such a waste of screen estate. All but 2 of the knobs are duplicated, and seeing both at the same time just looks odd and unnecessarily awkward to focus on. The numerical value could be displayed as a pop over the knobs, there could be an option for Skeu/flat design in preferences, deeper controls could be hidden or using a different type of knob to distinguish them.

You can hide the skeumorphic section by clicking the "v" in the top right corner.
 
You can hide the skeumorphic section by clicking the "v" in the top right corner.
I know.

IMO the skeuomorphic graphics should look 100000x better. HX Edit/Axe Edit purposefully look the way they do because they have HW units to support that have their own limitations (limited screen space, limited knobs, have to support not using a mouse). Tonocracy doesn’t have these constraints, so it’s not using either look for any benefit at all.

Choosing particular constraints to work within and then optimising the software around that is what good design is all about. This is why Neural DSP plugins don’t allow you to rearrange the order of things, or why HX Edit has the flat look and sliders. The constraints Tonocracy have chosen don’t benefit anything, because there isn’t a clear focus on what it’s trying to do. The best software has a very clear intention in what it is trying to achieve. That was the point of the post.
 
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