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Oh, I had a hell of a time with getting results from all 3 that were decent as each was having issues unique with grounding, noise etc that once fixed caused issues with the other.
Atomic Tonocracy (Inc NAM support)
- Thread starter MirrorProfiles
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MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
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- 3,386
Just slowing getting down to 16 minutes and then nothing. No other feedback, no way to report a problem, no status updates/checks. ToneX is slow AF for me (2 hours to make an advanced model) but at least I know itll train. The ToneX model I made came out really undergained compared to the original reference, but I noticed I made an AMP ONLY capture rather than PEDAL+AMP, so making one more just to be sure.
NAM worked well, I trained to 1000 epochs. Not sure its exact (very very close sounding for sure though), the ESR is higher than I'd normally like, but I typically prefer not including boosts into the model. This is more to test against ToneX, and in that regard, NAM was able to make a decent enough model that sounds pretty much as it should.
Will see if the PEDAL+AMP model from ToneX comes out any better, and hopefully the Tonocracy issues have been resolved by then. Up until now the cloud training had worked well, but now I have doubts about what would happen if a large number of users start using it.
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Hi Mirror, Are you using the free version of Tonocracy? Paid customers get priority on capturing so that's likely what's happening here. Servers are currently cranking and we are seeing unusually high utilization. Full Version users appear to be moving forward in the queue as expected. The wait time should accurately reflect your place in line but this may not be functioning as expected for Free Version users - we'll look into that ASAP.
MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
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Yeah I’m on the free version. The issue I was having is nothing would happen once it gets to a 16 minute wait time. Have left it running in the studio for the time being, will check in a few hours if they’re done.
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- 23
Thank for exposing this bug in the Free Version wait time queue. Looking into a fix.
Enchilada Jones
Roadie
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- 655
Using paid version. No love yet. Hopefully the Tonocracy crew can get it figured out soon.
sorry I can’t post on TGP because some illiterate cupcake got triggered by a word I used properly…
Well at least you cracked me up! Between the 2 of us now we know it can affect the paid and the demo versions. It'll get figured out I'm sure, and I'll buy it if it does. .
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yeky83
Roadie
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- 979
Huh, surprised to hear clips of ToneX doing so poorly. It obviously falls apart in @[Nathan]’s clip. But also in @Deadpan’s, the Kemper does the mids thing which is to be expected, but the ToneX fails to reproduce some high freq stuff, makes it noticeably different during palm mutes. I thought all was hunky-dory in that world but I guess not. 
MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
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Files here are purely for test purposes roughly based on what Nathan was doing. Its WAY more gain than I'd use for anything, and if I was making a model of this, I wouldn't be including the boost in the same model. The ESR's are much higher with a boost before the amp, IMO it makes more sense to capture the amp without the boost for a more accurate model, and then run the pedal in front (be it a real pedal, algorithmic model, or captured pedal).
NAM was 1000 epochs.
ToneX was pedal+amp mode, advanced training.
NAM's ESR was higher than I'd typically be happy with, but it makes sense that they'll all struggle given the amount of gain (and noise etc) involved. ToneX definitely comes out significantly worse here - the gain is not even close to the original amp. Even with the model on 10 it would be undergained.
NAM and Tonocracy also have less gain, but sound closer (to each other, and also not too far from the source). I think there is some merit in the statement that ToneX struggles with very high gain - I think even though its more gain than I'd want to use, the fact they support pedal+amp models means they should probably make sure that the models come out better.
![[Nathan]](/data/avatars/m/0/613.jpg?1726885163){kind=avatar}
[Nathan]
Roadie
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- 428
For all my gripes with ToneX its still an impressive product, it does a decent enough job, pedal is impressively priced etc etc. If I was capturing my own tones to use live I'd be willing to spend a day or so on fine tuning settings to luck out the best capture possible and then use it and be done.
The thing that irks me is when people say how good the capturing tech is. It's definitely a lot better for anything not high gain but that also happens to be stuff I dont care about. My brain also works with gear like if it starts to be "not good" at the high gain end of the spectrum then how much information are we missing from these captures in the hard rock category etc etc.
To me its clear as day that in some way shape or form its just not as good as NAM (as a direct competitor), and I even prefer the tones from Kemper/QC which uses the different methods. I guess what im trying to say is that the app is horrible, pedal is a bit clunky, captures are less good than NAM and the other bunch.... but its still an impressive piece of kit and its priced accordingly. To say its as good or better than others... you're lying to yourself (and others).
In Eds test we can split hairs on the difference between the real amp, nam and tonocracy but they are insanely close. As a guitarist noone is hearing the differences imo. We're really at the stage where its only a mix engineer who's running this audio through a mix and finding the differences under a microscope, like maybe neural based audio reacts differently to plugins/hardware etc... but for general listening those captures are dead on.
The thing that irks me is when people say how good the capturing tech is. It's definitely a lot better for anything not high gain but that also happens to be stuff I dont care about. My brain also works with gear like if it starts to be "not good" at the high gain end of the spectrum then how much information are we missing from these captures in the hard rock category etc etc.
To me its clear as day that in some way shape or form its just not as good as NAM (as a direct competitor), and I even prefer the tones from Kemper/QC which uses the different methods. I guess what im trying to say is that the app is horrible, pedal is a bit clunky, captures are less good than NAM and the other bunch.... but its still an impressive piece of kit and its priced accordingly. To say its as good or better than others... you're lying to yourself (and others).
In Eds test we can split hairs on the difference between the real amp, nam and tonocracy but they are insanely close. As a guitarist noone is hearing the differences imo. We're really at the stage where its only a mix engineer who's running this audio through a mix and finding the differences under a microscope, like maybe neural based audio reacts differently to plugins/hardware etc... but for general listening those captures are dead on.
[Nathan]
Roadie
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- 428
I think the thing that would really springboard Tonocracy into the limelight is bringing out a pedal that lets you run a) their models b) their captures c) NAM captures... Would definitely make it a serious contender for captures at that point.
BenIfin
Roadie
- Messages
- 970
If you are using this product and love it ... thats awesome ... more power to you.
I'm not a user of this product but have extensively spent time with full-NAM .. comparing it to my Tonex which I was using up until 3 months ago.
This is a discussion forum.
These are my thoughts re: a [possible] "pedal" as someone above mentioned, they'd like to see one.
The thought of A.A releasing a hardware unit-player ... and I have no idea if the will or wont ... fills me with "substantial concern".
I.m.h.o ..... their "very sub-par" track record with support and FW for the AA3, AA6 and AA12 .... was/is self-evident .....full of promises of updates being just around the corner that never materialized.
My very first thought when I saw this s/w product announced was that a hardware pedal will follow ..... as such ......I specifically asked Tom in this thread here 2 weeks ago specifically about "the old hardware line".
Ben
I'm not a user of this product but have extensively spent time with full-NAM .. comparing it to my Tonex which I was using up until 3 months ago.
This is a discussion forum.
These are my thoughts re: a [possible] "pedal" as someone above mentioned, they'd like to see one.
The thought of A.A releasing a hardware unit-player ... and I have no idea if the will or wont ... fills me with "substantial concern".
I.m.h.o ..... their "very sub-par" track record with support and FW for the AA3, AA6 and AA12 .... was/is self-evident .....full of promises of updates being just around the corner that never materialized.
My very first thought when I saw this s/w product announced was that a hardware pedal will follow ..... as such ......I specifically asked Tom in this thread here 2 weeks ago specifically about "the old hardware line".
Ben
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eggpl@nt
Roadie
- Messages
- 939
Of course atomic is going to dodge that question. “Nope, those are dead. Our forum is still down too!” doesn’t instill any confidence in a new release.
There’s a reason this product released on a brand new website, with a brand new name, and entirely separated from atomic’s previous products, save for a link to their “other products.”
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- 23
The biggest difference with Tonocracy is that all the component modeling, capture and effects tech have been built from the ground up and are being done in house. Our new team is focused, listening and in action. This will become more apparent in the coming weeks if it hasn't already. Outwardly, we are focused on the launch of our very first plugin and standalone application. Tonocracy is not just an app, however. It is a new platform. As we've mentioned, this is just the beginning of something new.
Enchilada Jones
Roadie
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- 655
I agree with all that but would add, let the pedal also have a complete signal chain like the app does where you can have all the effects and include routing to multiple paths/ outputs etc.
Including robust USB audio routing.
I wouldn’t be thinking of selling the TONEX pedal if they let it have that ‘complete preset’ I foolishly saw the Amplitube/TONEX combination and assumed it was going to load those presets. Instead it is limited and has horrible software interface.
Please Tonocracy, just because TONEX has set the bar so low, don’t aim for anything other than amazing!
[Nathan]
Roadie
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- 428
Never go full ToneX
gearJunkie
Shredder
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paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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Yeah dude, WAY different plugin. Totally different results.
