Atomic Tonocracy (Inc NAM support)

I’d love to see something that will train all locally as well. Not really loving the cloud aspect.
+1 for having a complete “offline” solution as well. If you can bank up the amp captures and batch process the training in the cloud then you can surely just bank up the training files and let them process locally.

I know this is a pessimistic outlook but what happens if the app servers get shut off and there’s no local training? Being a realist I’m sure they will eventually bring out a local training mode especially if shutting off servers is on the cards but it’s just unnecessary uncertainty. If the app had offline mode from the get go then this wouldn’t even be a concern
 
I guess it depends on how someone works with these things but even though some people say it is not ready for prime time it didn’t take long for me to realize it is more complete than TONEX is. Based on what I want from them anyway. Drive blocks modulation, delays are missing from TONEX. And yea I have the Max version of Amplitube 5 but I don’t really want to keep bouncing between A5, TONEX and the librarian app for TONEX pedal just to piece together a hours chance to play.

Once I realized the captured sounds are as good. I was sold. The input level issue is solved. The file system is better. Yes it’s basic windows/Mac folder system but we all know how to make use of it. The skeuomorphic doesn’t take 35% of the screen you can toggle it off.

And Atomic brought some really nice hardware into the market at good prices that makes me think they will have a pedal or two and hopefully even a desktop type that is more interface desk use oriented than pedalboard oriented for traveling light.

More delays, midi control for toggling stuff on and off, expression control of parameters etc would be good for the travel rig or even just moving around the house. So many compact midi control options now grab one and a laptop and you have it all!
 
ToneX is an abomination.
Agreed although being devils advocate the captures can be quite good , it’s the software that is a total mess and unfortunately IK does not take criticism well as evidenced by them leaving most forums with complaints

That said I am sure it will evolve over time and they will improve their software , the idea is there and the hardware is really well built and solid
 
Agreed although being devils advocate the captures can be quite good , it’s the software that is a total mess and unfortunately IK does not take criticism well as evidenced by them leaving most forums with complaints

That said I am sure it will evolve over time and they will improve their software , the idea is there and the hardware is really well built and solid
Yeah not my bag at all anymore.
 
Agreed although being devils advocate the captures can be quite good , it’s the software that is a total mess and unfortunately IK does not take criticism well as evidenced by them leaving most forums with complaints

That said I am sure it will evolve over time and they will improve their software , the idea is there and the hardware is really well built and solid
Tonex came out Aug2022 and according to Peter/IK it’s been one of their best performers ever at IK. The only meaningful updates they’ve done is add a tuner and input trim knob which should have been there from launch, the rest of the app is basically a masterclass in bad UX... its like it goes out of the way to be unintuitive and confusing

If over a year has passed, nothings really changed, and this is how they treat their best performing platform... I really have no hope anything meaningful will change with ToneX. We can also look to Amplitube5 to see things are still somewhat goofy (its better but still odd compared to other software).

It'll be interesting to see how (or if) they handle updates to their neural capturing technology, surely they can't just coast on the current technology and call it a day? Maybe something meaningful will happen and there'll be a big UX/UI overhaul, or maybe they just hammer away at ToneX 2.0 but I'd say on its current course I dont see their app changing, its just not their style.
 
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+1 for having a complete “offline” solution as well. If you can bank up the amp captures and batch process the training in the cloud then you can surely just bank up the training files and let them process locally.

I know this is a pessimistic outlook but what happens if the app servers get shut off and there’s no local training? Being a realist I’m sure they will eventually bring out a local training mode especially if shutting off servers is on the cards but it’s just unnecessary uncertainty. If the app had offline mode from the get go then this wouldn’t even be a concern

I share that concern, and that would probably influence my purchase decision. At the same time, it's worth noting the server-based training is an awesome idea. Do a bunch of captures then queue up the batch on their servers for training. That's a real quality of life innovation.

Contrast that with Fender who only repackaged ideas from other developers instead of coming up with anything new. They didn't even do a good job of copying the UI from Overloud.
 
I share that concern, and that would probably influence my purchase decision. At the same time, it's worth noting the server-based training is an awesome idea. Do a bunch of captures then queue up the batch on their servers for training. That's a real quality of life innovation.

Contrast that with Fender who only repackaged ideas from other developers instead of coming up with anything new. They didn't even do a good job of copying the UI from Overloud.

Yeah its almost quite odd they've included infinite cloud training for free, to the point I think it's going to be a problem down the line. If no one buys the software then its a cost to constantly burden yourself with. On the flip side if you have thousands of users doing tons and tons of training that's also a huge constant cost and once you stop selling units where's the money coming from?

It's highly possible that they did some spreadsheet simulations on average cloud processing costs per user, and the built in purchase "should" cover whatever cloud cost a user would rack up in their lifetime... but still... when I see things like unlimited cloud computing for an infinite amount of time its like... is this an oversight or is the rubber going to meet the road at some point. Once again... if there was offline training then im not concerned about this topic.

The slam dunk model that would have me not even thinking about this is
- Batch Amp Capturing
- Offline Batch Training
- Cloud Batch Training (unlimited 12 months usage, $2.99/month afterwards)

Straight away I'm like, ok that all makes sense. With the current no local option and indefinite cloud capturing I'm dubious in the long run. Also I just know they will add local training its an absolute no brainer to do so... but WHY wait and not have it at launch so we have to do this kind of mental gymnastics, puzzling stuff.
 
Its 150 bucks, thats like 1 1/2 dinners with my gurl friend.

Look around at the guys complaining and at what.
I got 12 ndsp plugs and literally dont use them. The gear community. Lol

Guitar community was funny enough…
*scoffs at people being critical of a plugin*

*brags about being a repeat NDSP customer 11 times without learning his lesson*
 
Tonex came out Aug2022 and according to Peter/IK it’s been one of their best performers ever at IK. The only meaningful updates they’ve done is add a tuner and input trim knob which should have been there from launch, the rest of the app is basically a masterclass in bad UX... its like it goes out of the way to be unintuitive and confusing

If over a year has passed, nothings really changed, and this is how they treat their best performing platform... I really have no hope anything meaningful will change with ToneX. We can also look to Amplitube5 to see things are still somewhat goofy (its better but still odd compared to other software).

It'll be interesting to see how (or if) they handle updates to their neural capturing technology, surely they can't just coast on the current technology and call it a day? Maybe something meaningful will happen and there'll be a big UX/UI overhaul, or maybe they just hammer away at ToneX 2.0 but I'd say on its current course I dont see their app changing, its just not their style.
That’s the beauty with the small team at TMT. They may not have an editorial dept. writing manuals, but they can make decisions fast and implement new ideas in short release cycles.

The larger the company the more complicated and the UI at the IK product shows what “design by committee” does to a great idea.

I have seen what they can do in short release cycles, and new stuff that was added was always solid.

Also with a small company where some highly motivated folk work night and day and are idealistic and inspired, at least I would think twice about having a bit of respect for what they achieved and cut them some slack compared to big company guys with 4 day work weeks, big company cars and 6 figure salaries, who likely care more about their stock portfolio than customer needs or product quality.

I remember in the 80e, 90s and sometimes still today, we bought boxes for a few thousand bucks that did just one thing, you had to go through cryptic menus and deal with sysex and all and nobody complained. We knew we wanted to make it work and so we did.

It’s always easy to be negative and find fault with anything. For some it makes themselves feel superior. But instead you could just load the app, try some of the great included stuff or load some free NAMs and make some music with it. Then judge and make or make not your purchase decision.
 
Also with a small company where some highly motivated folk work night and day and are idealistic and inspired, at least I would think twice about having a bit of respect for what they achieved and cut them some slack compared to big company guys with 4 day work weeks, big company cars and 6 figure salaries, who likely care more about their stock portfolio than customer needs or product quality.
let’s not assume that most amp sim developers are like this. Certainly the guys I’ve spoken to are extremely passionate and aren’t doing their job as some kind of cash grab. The industry is full of great talents and characters and the more the merrier.

This is a discussion forum, people are going to discuss whatever thoughts arise. TMT have literally based the defining features of this product based on user feedback about other products - if customers (or potential customers) are giving feedback, it’s very valuable for the company to listen. Without that, Tonocracy wouldn’t have the input calibration system, cloud training, queued captures etc.

There’s plenty of praise for the positive aspects in this thread, and also plenty of valuable feedback about areas to improve. It’s all very useful - this thread would go in the toilet if it’s just high fives and pats on the back.

I think it’s fair that if were to look at Tonocracy as first and foremost about capturing amps accurately, and anything else is a bonus (rather than an all in one solution) then it’s probably best to look at ToneX like that, because they’ve purposefully left out things so it doesn’t tread on Amplitubes toes.

Regarding frequent updates/additions - it’s a lot harder to maintain a stable release across different systems, and without borking old sessions. It’s great to have stuff added, but if it means old sessions sound different, or crashes happen more frequently, then I’d rather have fewer but more reliable updates. Most companies adopt this approach as it can be an absolute drain on resources to be playing cat and mouse with updates/fixes. This is why seeing a product released that doesn’t look finished gives me some pause - beta testers may have an idea of how fast things get added and how stable things have been, but users have no idea. Theres also no guarantee that things will remain that way, so you’re hoping that things eventually sort themselves out without knowing if you’ll be left on a buggy version where you can’t connect to a server and do anything. Products often become quite bloated if things are added as you go, rather than designing it as a complete product from the start. It’s a lot easier to make a slick and focussed product with careful planning and refinement/trimming the fat that adapting as you go.

Hopefully everything goes well, but there’s just so many things that are making me hesitant about diving in.
 
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Also with a small company where some highly motivated folk work night and day and are idealistic and inspired, at least I would think twice about having a bit of respect for what they achieved and cut them some slack compared to big company guys with 4 day work weeks, big company cars and 6 figure salaries, who likely care more about their stock portfolio than customer needs or product quality.
I can almost guarantee you that there is nobody in the music software game who is like this; and I'd say for music hardware, you'd probably find less than 100 people worldwide who are like that.
 
I don't know if I would go that far, but I would say their searching and filtering mechanics are pretty poor. The actual capture process is very straight forward and intuitive. So once I make a capture, I just go back to Amplitube 5 for the most part. I get some really good in the box tones from it.
I had like 2 successful captures out of probably 20+ tries? No rhyme or reason why they either were WAYYYYY undergained or plain just failed.

I worked with support (aka sent them caps and other temp data files created in the process while they pretended to want to solve my problem while never solving the problem). I know you don't dig the Kemper but it was never that irritating for me. Combine that with the software and overall vibe and it was an easy decision for me to pull the plug.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
The guitar gear market is already ridiculously saturated.
Such a great point!

The dynamics are interesting, because despite the saturated market I want nothing to do with most of those companies. There's an ever-growing list of reasons they wind up on my Never Buy list -- and that makes me more loyal, more appreciative, of companies like FAS.
 
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