Anybody wanna learn Autumn Leaves/jazz standard?

Fwiw, while I absolutely believe in it to be a good idea to find those voicings by looking out for the actual notes, after a while the shapes should rather be internalized, while still being aware of the function of each note played. The latter would also be the key to modify pretty much any other chords. Things such as "oh, this is the major third in this very chord, in case I lower it by a halftone, the chord will become minor" - as a very blunt example.
 
AFKAEjay said:
To me, theory, and experimenting with it, also has been a source of stuff that I now hear in my head…so it added to my vocabulary. I can handle the sound of altered cause I forced myself exploring it with a textbook as trigger.
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The question is whether or not it is "added" to the vocabulary or if it becomes the vocabulary. Many times it's the latter and it's discernible.

The classic example is the blues player who instead of playing from the heart memorizes licks from his favorite players, practices them until he can play them to perfection, and then creates solos playing one memorized lick after another. In the end his playing becomes a recitation of memorized licks not creative spontaneous composition.

The same can be true of Jazz.

George Benson doesn't read music. Neither did Hendrix. They are able to use their ears and be inspired by what they hear to play something that compliments it.

I'm not saying that reading is bad or that learning the fundamentals stifles creativity but it can become a substitute for it.
 
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Stratzrus said:
The question is whether or not it is "added" to the vocabulary or if it becomes the vocabulary.
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Theory doesn't become vocabulary. Theory is like a well sorted toolbox and once you know which tool to use for a certain job, you will find the tool quickly. But it doesn't describe the job itself and it's also not forcing you to use any tools to achieve the quickest results. Just as you don't have to take the most direct path from A to B when you're on a sightseeing tour.
 
If I were anywhere close to a level where I heard lines in my head to play over these chords AND could get them out on the spot, I wouldn’t have started this thread. Baby steps.

:beer
 
Boudoir Guitar said:
If I were anywhere close to a level where I heard lines in my head to play over these chords AND could get them out on the spot...
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That was my goal and when I was gigging regularly that's what we did. Unfortunately when Covid hit we stopped gigging and three years later my playing has suffered for it. Laying off for three years when you're 73 takes its toll. I currently don't have the physical dexterity needed to play the music in my head.

I'm determined to spend more time practicing and the guys are constantly on my case about when we're going to start gigging again but it pains me that currently I'm not able to play on the level I had been.

As you said, "Baby steps".
 
Boudoir Guitar said:
If I were anywhere close to a level where I heard lines in my head to play over these chords AND could get them out on the spot, I wouldn’t have started this thread. Baby steps.

:beer
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Dude…you’ve had more than 24 hours since starting this thread to practice…if you are not blowing mixphrygiupsidedownian scale over it you need to set your priorities straight ! ;)

I’m overshooting my desire to encourage you to understand and label what you play properly…so you build on the conditions to get there one day ;)…back in my corner ;)
 
AFKAEjay said:
Dude…you’ve had more than 24 hours since starting this thread to practice…if you are not blowing mixphrygiupsidedownian scale over it you need to set your priorities straight ! ;)

I’m overshooting my desire to encourage you to understand and label what you play properly…so you build on the conditions to get there one day ;)…back in my corner ;)
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No worries at all. I did spend a solid hour playing the head in various ways to get a better feel for various places to find the same stuff on the fingerboard and better internalize the inetervalic relationships in the melody.

MIGHT make an old school vlog style video this weekend tracking work to date?
 
Boudoir Guitar said:
No worries at all. I did spend a solid hour playing the head in various ways to get a better feel for various places to find the same stuff on the fingerboard and better internalize the inetervalic relationships in the melody.
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That’s great stuff! When you’re doing that you are building skills to navigate the instrument based on musical functions/sound.
 
First tune Ted Greene made learn when I took lessons…in G

Some source material…
IMG_0242.jpeg

IMG_0246.jpeg


IMG_0244.jpeg
IMG_0245.jpeg
 
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Stratzrus said:
The question is whether or not it is "added" to the vocabulary or if it becomes the vocabulary. Many times it's the latter and it's discernible.

The classic example is the blues player who instead of playing from the heart memorizes licks from his favorite players, practices them until he can play them to perfection, and then creates solos playing one memorized lick after another. In the end his playing becomes a recitation of memorized licks not creative spontaneous composition.

The same can be true of Jazz.

George Benson doesn't read music. Neither did Hendrix. They are able to use their ears and be inspired by what they hear to play something that compliments it.

I'm not saying that reading is bad or that learning the fundamentals stifles creativity but it can become a substitute for it.
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Theory does nothing but put a name to a sonic event.
 
I think these are the two schematics you want to internalize when dealing with these kind of chord types (fear my l337 graphic skillz...)

Chordforms.jpg


As you can see, sus4 and 6 chords are covered as well, the reason being that these are either replacing the 3rd (sus4) or the 7th (6), so it's a good idea to fit them in.
 
That cycle 4 profession is super nice to get one 3-5-7-9-1-3-5-7 arpeggios together

E—————————————————-
B——————8-11–10————————
G-8——-7—-8—————-8-11-10——8-7
D——-8—-10————-10————7-10
A—-10——————————————-
E____~~~

This is Cm to F7 for example
 
Okay, I'm at like level 0 with jazz. But watching that Jens Larsen video, those shell voicings are something brand new to me that seems like I need to understand WAY more. That's exactly what I'm after to improve my knowledge, rather than just playing 7 chords on quarter notes or whatever I've been seeing on Truefire.
 
Sascha Franck said:
IMO it's a good idea to get the harmonic material sorted at least a bit before you start to fool around. No idea about how much general scale/chord relationship knowledge exists round these parts, also no idea how much of it is covered in the videos posted above, so I'll try to keep it short-ish (uhm...).

General formula of 7th chords (which is what most jazz is kinda based on) building up on any major scale (using roman numbers for scale degrees is a common thing for that sort of stuff):
I maj7
II min7
III min7
IV maj7
V 7
VI min7
VII min7/b5

In C major (typical key for this to get explained - but fortunately "Autumn Leaves" isn't in C, so we need to deviate from that quickly, which is a good thing), the scale notes are C, D, E, F, G, A, B, so our chords are:
Cmaj7
Dmin7
Emin7
Fmaj7
G7
Amin7
Bmin7/b5

Now, "Autumn Leaves" (at least the Realbook version) is in Bb major or G minor (we will for a while ignore the "specialty" of G minor, namely the D7 dominant chord).
Scale notes of the Bb major scale are: Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A. Hence our 7 chords are:
Bbmaj7
Cmin7
Dmin7
Ebmaj7
F7
Gmin7
Amin7/b5

That's pretty much the basic harmonic stuff the tune is building up upon.

Next step would be to find some decent ways to play these chords - and I think there's at least one pretty easy method that I'd happily explain in case anyone's interested, but before doing so, I'd like to know whether everybody's more or less fine with the above or whether anything needs some more explanation.
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This is SUPER helpful thank you!

I'm just sticking with the root on E and playing those "shell" chords with the root, third, and seventh on the E, D, and G strings. Now going up and down playing that scale of 7th chords like you explained kinda sounds like jazz!

I suppose the next step is to learn the chords with the root on the A string, and then everywhere else.

This feels like progress for the first time in forever. I'm going to dive into your other posts later but just wanted to say thanks!
 
Jarick said:
I suppose the next step is to learn the chords with the root on the A string, and then everywhere else.
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Really, try to combine them right now already. The "rule" being to always take the shortest path from one root to the next. So Cmin7 with its root on E6 demands the F7 root to be played on A5.
The main reason for this approach is that, especially with a tune such as Autumn Leaves, you will automatically end up with close voice leading on the D and G strings - which is *the* ticket for proper jazz comping (at least as long as we're talking sort of traditional comping).
 
Sascha Franck said:
Really, try to combine them right now already. The "rule" being to always take the shortest path from one root to the next. So Cmin7 with its root on E6 demands the F7 root to be played on A5.
The main reason for this approach is that, especially with a tune such as Autumn Leaves, you will automatically end up with close voice leading on the D and G strings - which is *the* ticket for proper jazz comping (at least as long as we're talking sort of traditional comping).
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Or do what the Gypsy pickers do keep the 6th bass tone for both as in C-7 to F7/C.

Personally unless I have to ape Freddie green on a big band gig I’d voice lead 4-note grips on the top strings.
 
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