Anybody wanna learn Autumn Leaves/jazz standard?

[Jarick]

Okay this morning I learned and have been working on the 7 chords of the major scale with the root on the E, A, and D (including the minor flat 5 on the VII). Really good exercise. I'm trying to memorize the positions and fingerings and be able to use those more quickly and smoothly. I think if I can do that along with getting better at memorizing the notes on the fretboard, I'll have a very good base to work from, and be able to do some simple song comping.

Not necessary Autumn Leaves, but I'm learning a ton and getting better!

 

[AFKAEjay]

Okay this morning I learned and have been working on the 7 chords of the major scale with the root on the E, A, and D (including the minor flat 5 on the VII). Really good exercise. I'm trying to memorize the positions and fingerings and be able to use those more quickly and smoothly. I think if I can do that along with getting better at memorizing the notes on the fretboard, I'll have a very good base to work from, and be able to do some simple song comping.

Not necessary Autumn Leaves, but I'm learning a ton and getting better!

Tip…put numbers on it when you practice, and sing the bass notes with those numbers. When you do that enough you will start to recognize them…and know changes by ear.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Okay this morning I learned and have been working on the 7 chords of the major scale with the root on the E, A, and D (including the minor flat 5 on the VII). Really good exercise. I'm trying to memorize the positions and fingerings and be able to use those more quickly and smoothly. I think if I can do that along with getting better at memorizing the notes on the fretboard, I'll have a very good base to work from, and be able to do some simple song comping.

Not necessary Autumn Leaves, but I'm learning a ton and getting better!

When I false-started on this a few years ago, the guy I was working with had me play each chord shape along to this backing track both to internalize chord shapes and get better at learning notes on fretboard. It follows the cycle of 4ths (i.e., the cycle of 5ths backwards). There's also a minor tonality version:

 

[Jarick]

When I false-started on this a few years ago, the guy I was working with had me play each chord shape along to this backing track both to internalize chord shapes and get better at learning notes on fretboard. It follows the cycle of 4ths (i.e., the cycle of 5ths backwards). There's also a minor tonality version:

That's super helpful! I was stumbling into that yesterday but this will be a lot easier to do, and I can hit the different positions across the strings.

It's weird that I somehow never heard of any of this before. Oh well, better late than never.

 

[metropolis_4]

There’s no right or wrong here…maybe investigate how you can make melody and comping different worlds…almost question and answer between 2 voices.
In my mind…if you play the melody with authority…you don’t NEED to put chords everywhere…you can…but leaving space is also a perfectly valid option.
Here’s a suggestion from my couch . The first A…descending line from roots to 3rds..a classic

Very cool, thanks. I’m gonna be listening to that to pull some ideas!

I think two problems I have are over-playing because I feel like I need to fill all empty space, and feeling like I can’t stop the chord/comping to throw in something melodic.

 

[metropolis_4]

I can’t help but feel like we should all be learning Joy Spring instead of Autumn Leaves at this time of year

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

That's super helpful! I was stumbling into that yesterday but this will be a lot easier to do, and I can hit the different positions across the strings.

It's weird that I somehow never heard of any of this before. Oh well, better late than never.

I feel like, for a long time, anytime I tried to find resources to "learn jazz" it was like the Jimmy Bruno approach: "Go learn all your major/minor 7th chords, dominant seventh chords, diminished chords, arpeggios of each of those all over the neck and then come back for lesson #2". I'm sure there was better stuff within the world of jazz learning, but I didn't have the budget or time to do lessons.

I managed to fake some stuff from trying to slide in through blues like Kenny Burrell's Chitlin's Con Carne, Bags Groove, some Grant Green stuff, etc., but all of that was basically "expansion of how I can play blues" rather than really learning how to play changes.

Seems to be a lot more options out there for the joe-shmoe amateur now for actual scaffolded learning of jazz guitar.

 

[Jarick]

I feel like, for a long time, anytime I tried to find resources to "learn jazz" it was like the Jimmy Bruno approach: "Go learn all your major/minor 7th chords, dominant seventh chords, diminished chords, arpeggios of each of those all over the neck and then come back for lesson #2". I'm sure there was better stuff within the world of jazz learning, but I didn't have the budget or time to do lessons.

I always started with Truefire courses which were moving at way too slow of a pace and didn’t connect the dots. I got more out of 20 seconds of that Jens Larsen video than I did in on and off beginner lessons.

I’m actually digging the learning of 7th chords up and down the neck. Going to poke around some physical guitar books today and see if there’s other stuff that would be good to know.

 

[AFKAEjay]

Version of a master:

 

[metropolis_4]

Version of a master:

While I can completely appreciate the mastery of the musician, and there were some very cool ideas in there, I didn’t enjoy listening to that at all.

This is a good example of my least favorite kind of jazz: throw half the melody in somewhere so we can call it Autumn Leaves and then spend 3 min soloing over the changes.

 

[AFKAEjay]

While I can completely appreciate the mastery of the musician, and there were some very cool ideas in there, I didn’t enjoy listening to that at all.

This is a good example of my least favorite kind of jazz: throw half the melody in somewhere so we can call it Autumn Leaves and then spend 3 min soloing over the changes.

To me…this player represents one of the most musical / authentic approaches to improvisation ever…

Offcourse you don’t have to like it…but if you frame it as “throw in half the melody so you can call it autumn leaves”….A you don’t do it justice B (nevermind)
Whatever you think of the result…this musician is the furthest from pooping notes over changes then any of todays masters…if you can’t tell from what he plays…I’d encourage you to watch a couple of interviews with the fellow.

 

[metropolis_4]

To me…this player represents one of the most musical / authentic approaches to improvisation ever…

Offcourse you don’t have to like it…but if you frame it as “throw in half the melody so you can call it autumn leaves”….A you don’t do it justice B (nevermind)
Whatever you think of the result…this musician is the furthest from pooping notes over changes then any of todays masters…if you can’t tell from what he plays…I’d encourage you to watch a couple of interviews with the fellow.

Aesthetically this just isn’t something I enjoy listening to. Honestly I like your little clip you shared earlier 100x better than this.

 

[AFKAEjay]

Aesthetically this just isn’t something I enjoy listening to. Honestly I like your little clip you shared earlier 100x better than this.

That’s offcourse perfectly fine…
I got triggered by the suggestion that the man has superficial motives for his musical choices

…I’d encourage you to listen to it a couple times more though…it’s like Laphroaig..first zip hurts, 2nd is doable…from there it’s an adventure

 

[Bruce]

Had to learn Autumn Leaves (at least the chord progression) on the spot for a sit in with Lou Pallos band. My wife went up to sing and that is what she picked. Naturally, I followed and had 5 minutes to go over the chart. Watching Lou play and understanding just his level of mastery is roughly equal to seeing those guys solve a Rubix cube in under a minute. The man had an uncanny and almost super human ability to envision the fretboard and play in any key at any time, grabbing any chord in any position. RIP to Lou, definitely one of the greats I was blessed to meet.

 

[jay mitchell]

Version of a master:

I'll see your present master - IMO a beautiful rendition - and raise you a past master:

The two readings share significant common ground. Both players think like composers and have the knowledge (and chops) to compose in real time.

 

[Bruce]

While I can completely appreciate the mastery of the musician, and there were some very cool ideas in there, I didn’t enjoy listening to that at all.

This is a good example of my least favorite kind of jazz: throw half the melody in somewhere so we can call it Autumn Leaves and then spend 3 min soloing over the changes.

You must really not like bebop

 

[AFKAEjay]

I'll see your present master - IMO a beautiful rendition - and raise you a past master:

The two readings share significant common ground. Both players think like composers and have the knowledge (and chops) to compose in real time.

I wouldn’t dare to grade these guys against one another
Lage was a protege of Hall, performed with him in his trio in the last year of his life.

Hall was one of the first players I could understand a bit as a novice in jazzplayer…what he played made sense to me. Can’t remember the name of the album, bass/piano/guitar…I probably can still sing the solo on Stella on it.

 

[metropolis_4]

You must really not like bebop

Yeah, it’s not my favorite style.

I just don’t like instrumental soloing much in general. One or two times through the changes in the middle of the song is great, any more than that I get bored and tune out.

I’m much more interested in the song and I’d rather hear instrumental playing that compliments and supports the song rather than taking over and becoming the song.

 

[metropolis_4]

I'll see your present master - IMO a beautiful rendition - and raise you a past master:

The two readings share significant common ground. Both players think like composers and have the knowledge (and chops) to compose in real time.

I really loved this rendition. This felt very nicely balanced to me.

His tone is beautiful, I love how he and the bassist play off each other, and I love how he keeps the melody present in his improvisations. It feels cohesive, like nice variations on a theme

 

[Bruce]

Yeah, it’s not my favorite style.

I just don’t like instrumental soloing much in general. One or two times through the changes in the middle of the song is great, any more than that I get bored and tune out.

I’m much more interested in the song and I’d rather hear instrumental playing that compliments and supports the song rather than taking over and becoming the song.

I totally get that, and for the most part I feel the same way. The thing that interests me about bebop is I pretty much suck at it . The melodies and the changes, fine. I can hang but whipping out Parkeresque type solos, man that stuff gets really heady. I guess you just have to do a lot of it for a long time. Legend has it he practiced somewhere around 8-10 hours a day growing up.