Anybody wanna learn Autumn Leaves/jazz standard?

AFKAEjay said:
To me…this player represents one of the most musical / authentic approaches to improvisation ever…

Offcourse you don’t have to like it…but if you frame it as “throw in half the melody so you can call it autumn leaves”….A you don’t do it justice B (nevermind)
Whatever you think of the result…this musician is the furthest from pooping notes over changes then any of todays masters…if you can’t tell from what he plays…I’d encourage you to watch a couple of interviews with the fellow.
Click to expand...

Aesthetically this just isn’t something I enjoy listening to. Honestly I like your little clip you shared earlier 100x better than this.
 
Had to learn Autumn Leaves (at least the chord progression) on the spot for a sit in with Lou Pallos band. My wife went up to sing and that is what she picked. Naturally, I followed and had 5 minutes to go over the chart. Watching Lou play and understanding just his level of mastery is roughly equal to seeing those guys solve a Rubix cube in under a minute. The man had an uncanny and almost super human ability to envision the fretboard and play in any key at any time, grabbing any chord in any position. RIP to Lou, definitely one of the greats I was blessed to meet.
 
metropolis_4 said:
While I can completely appreciate the mastery of the musician, and there were some very cool ideas in there, I didn’t enjoy listening to that at all.

This is a good example of my least favorite kind of jazz: throw half the melody in somewhere so we can call it Autumn Leaves and then spend 3 min soloing over the changes.
Click to expand...
You must really not like bebop
 
Bruce said:
You must really not like bebop
Click to expand...

Yeah, it’s not my favorite style.

I just don’t like instrumental soloing much in general. One or two times through the changes in the middle of the song is great, any more than that I get bored and tune out.

I’m much more interested in the song and I’d rather hear instrumental playing that compliments and supports the song rather than taking over and becoming the song.
 
jay mitchell said:
I'll see your present master - IMO a beautiful rendition - and raise you a past master:

The two readings share significant common ground. Both players think like composers and have the knowledge (and chops) to compose in real time.
Click to expand...


I really loved this rendition. This felt very nicely balanced to me.

His tone is beautiful, I love how he and the bassist play off each other, and I love how he keeps the melody present in his improvisations. It feels cohesive, like nice variations on a theme
 
metropolis_4 said:
Yeah, it’s not my favorite style.

I just don’t like instrumental soloing much in general. One or two times through the changes in the middle of the song is great, any more than that I get bored and tune out.

I’m much more interested in the song and I’d rather hear instrumental playing that compliments and supports the song rather than taking over and becoming the song.
Click to expand...
I totally get that, and for the most part I feel the same way. The thing that interests me about bebop is I pretty much suck at it 😂. The melodies and the changes, fine. I can hang but whipping out Parkeresque type solos, man that stuff gets really heady. I guess you just have to do a lot of it for a long time. Legend has it he practiced somewhere around 8-10 hours a day growing up.
 
Bruce said:
I can hang but whipping out Parkeresque type solos, man that stuff gets really heady. I guess you just have to do a lot of it for a long time. Legend has it he practiced somewhere around 8-10 hours a day growing up.
Click to expand...
So did Van Halen, Malmsteen, and Prince. That may be what it takes to get to that level.

While not everyone is able to put in that many hours of practicing, having a regular schedule with a significant time commitment (three or more hours a day) does pay off.

When I was playing my best I was playing a lot every day; gigging weekly, rehearsals two or three times a week, practicing daily, and sitting in with other musicians as much as possible. We had a running jam session going on in our house and when no one came over my drummer and I used to roam around North and West Philadelphia looking for other guys who were playing who'd let us sit in. Music was our life and I've never played better.

I'm committed to increasing my time practicing more in the days ahead. As I told my sons many times, you have to work for reward, in this case playing on the level that you aspire to attain.

"George Benson: ‘I practice every single day"
 
Last edited:
Stratzrus said:
"George Benson: ‘I practice every single day"
Click to expand...
Richie Kotzen “Sometimes I can go a month without touching my guitar”. He told me this personally. I could have killed him 😂 How can you be so good and not be playing morning, noon and night?
 
Bruce said:
Richie Kotzen “Sometimes I can go a month without touching my guitar”. He told me this personally. I could have killed him 😂 How can you be so good and not be playing morning, noon and night?
Click to expand...
You do know people lie right?
 
Last edited:
Bruce said:
Naaah I believed him. He was in the middle of some pretty big DIY home repairs/upgrades at the time.

Edit: interview is here, some pretty good info about his career and perspective. Unfortunately the practice thing got cut, maybe because we were discussing his house for a bit. Anyway, for anyone interested: https://musicplayers.com/2017/06/richie-kotzen-call-just-shredder-injustice/
Click to expand...
Nice Interview.

Well I dunno man I lived up the street in the mountain above Malibu from him and there isn’t much reason to get off this mountain.

As in most guys up there that are musicians just chill and play :-)
 
Last edited:
Bruce said:
I totally get that, and for the most part I feel the same way. The thing that interests me about bebop is I pretty much suck at it 😂. The melodies and the changes, fine. I can hang but whipping out Parkeresque type solos, man that stuff gets really heady. I guess you just have to do a lot of it for a long time. Legend has it he practiced somewhere around 8-10 hours a day growing up.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can’t do it either. I guess it’s something I never had any desire to learn to play though.

As a drummer I used to enjoy playing bebop a bit. The openness and freedom of it was fun, kind of the same feeling as just jamming with friends.

But even though it was fun to play it was never something I enjoyed listening to.

And for whatever reason as a guitarist and bassist I just never had any interest in playing it.
 
Been following this thread with interest (taught myself a couple new chord shapes thanks to Ed), and noticed a couple of those shapes can be called by different names (no surprise.)

Anybody wanna learn Autumn Leaves/jazz standard?

If I were anywhere close to a level where I heard lines in my head to play over these chords AND could get them out on the spot... That was my goal and when I was gigging regularly that's what we did. Unfortunately when Covid hit we stopped gigging and three years later my playing has suffered...
thegearforum.com thegearforum.com

I was wondering if anyone would mind explaining why you'd use one vs. the other. I'd expect it has something to do with context...

Examples:
GMaj9 & Bm7
F#m7b5 & Am6
 
Sascha Franck said:
Short tip: Being able to play the melodies of whatever tunes is an important thing in general, but learning the melody of this particular tune is even more beneficial as all the target notes are the thirds of the underlying chords, hence they're already leading you through the song a great deal.
Click to expand...

Stratzrus said:
Jimmy Garrison, John Coltrane's bass player, told me that when improvising a solo, "Know where you are, know where you've been, know where you're going".

Keeping track of where you are in the song is definitely an important part of planning what to play next.
Click to expand...
Yeah learning the melody really well has helped me a lot when improvising. That and having the changes down and knowing where all the notes are on the fretboard cold.

P.S. Oh and almost forgot, 3rds and 7ths
 
TSJMajesty said:
Been following this thread with interest (taught myself a couple new chord shapes thanks to Ed), and noticed a couple of those shapes can be called by different names (no surprise.)

Anybody wanna learn Autumn Leaves/jazz standard?

If I were anywhere close to a level where I heard lines in my head to play over these chords AND could get them out on the spot... That was my goal and when I was gigging regularly that's what we did. Unfortunately when Covid hit we stopped gigging and three years later my playing has suffered...
thegearforum.com thegearforum.com

I was wondering if anyone would mind explaining why you'd use one vs. the other. I'd expect it has something to do with context...

Examples:
GMaj9 & Bm7
F#m7b5 & Am6
Click to expand...
When I do these theater books I stumble on all sorts of these gems. This last one I learned is if you want a 9 chord, just play the straight minor 5 half steps down. I had a measure with a quarter note rest, Emin7 for 2 beats then A9 for the last beat. Simply turning the min7 to the straight minor gave me what I needed for A9! In A……E (5th) G (dom7) and B (9). Really made it way easier. I think guys who are great at this can compute this kind of stuff at lightning speed and “just do it”, where us mortals have to go “oh, well look at that”. Again, if I did a TON of this kind of stuff, I’m sure after stumbling on this 5 times I’d remember it forever.

As for your question, I think you’re looking at it backwards. you’d see Gmaj9 written and play that shape, the way you’d see Bmin7 and play the same shape. They’re named different because they have to be logically named for the entire composition and take into consideration the rest of the progression, key and other elements of the orchestration. Bmin7 will not sound like a major chord without the G in the bass. That G could be played by the trombone, who knows. With this kind of stuff, especially if it’s faster you play less notes and voice it where and how you can. Given this, I can also argue the other end and seen shit written very complex for no good reason whatsoever. Why in the hell would anyone write in C flat? come on. Why not just write in B? But it is out there and you still have to read it.
 
maguchi said:
Yeah learning the melody really well has helped me a lot when improvising. That and having the changes down and knowing where all the notes are on the fretboard cold.

P.S. Oh and almost forgot, 3rds and 7ths
Click to expand...
7/3 resolutions are a big deal in jazz. I started learning that stuff and understand it but dont know it cold.
 
TSJMajesty said:
Been following this thread with interest (taught myself a couple new chord shapes thanks to Ed), and noticed a couple of those shapes can be called by different names (no surprise.)

Anybody wanna learn Autumn Leaves/jazz standard?

If I were anywhere close to a level where I heard lines in my head to play over these chords AND could get them out on the spot... That was my goal and when I was gigging regularly that's what we did. Unfortunately when Covid hit we stopped gigging and three years later my playing has suffered...
thegearforum.com thegearforum.com

I was wondering if anyone would mind explaining why you'd use one vs. the other. I'd expect it has something to do with context...

Examples:
GMaj9 & Bm7
F#m7b5 & Am6
Click to expand...
I go against the grain here, while it the are cases the bass note might tell the function it’s always context that really decides. What comes before and after and the melody is the context.

All chords have pluralities.
In your A-6 or F♯ø case you can add rootless D9, or C6♭5, or B7sus♭9, or A♭7♭9♯5

So even without a bass note just playing this on the top 4 strings.

X x 4 6 6 6

X x 4 5 5 5

X x 3 5 4 4
Just about anyone will hear it as Eb-7 A♭7alt D♭△9

Whereas this...

X x 5 5 5 5

X x 4 5 5 5

X x 4 4 3 5

Most uf not all will hear as A-7 D9 G△9

And speaking of pluralities look at °7 chords the root can be any of it's 4 notes so this

X x 3 4 3 4 can be F°7 B°7 D°7 G♯°7
Or rootless E7♭9 B♭7♭9 D♭7♭9 G7♭9

Same with augmented stuff.

Like
X x 5 6 6 5

if you move this In whole steps that initial
A7♯5 now can not just be B7♯5 but also
A9♭5(omit3) then up a whole step
A9♯5 again whole up
A7♭5 up whole
A9♭5♯5(omit3) up whole
A9♯5 up whole
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top