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Anybody wanna learn Autumn Leaves/jazz standard?
- Thread starter Boudoir Guitar
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I know, I'm sorry. Nobody squeezes the head quite like youCopyright infringement!!
Los-D
Shredder
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Thanks for this! As a complete Jazz moron this is the one I used to learn it:
Easy Autumn Leaves Chord Melody and Quick How-to-Play!
Easy Chord Melody Lesson for Autumn Leaves with transcription and tabs. Short video explaining how to play the arrangement. Autumn Leaves is a great song t...
youtu.be
Los-D
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,483
Looks good!
Stratzrus
Roadie
- Messages
- 799
Jimmy Garrison, John Coltrane's bass player, told me that when improvising a solo, "Know where you are, know where you've been, know where you're going".
Keeping track of where you are in the song is definitely an important part of planning what to play next.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
- Messages
- 6,029
Ok, on to playing them chords.
The main idea is to actually understand what one is doing. That way, you don't need any tabs, lists of chord shapes and what not.
---
Prerequisite 1:
Knowing or at least being able to find the notes on the fretboard. In case you're not fluent with that, no worries, doing all this will speed things up (perhaps a lot and rather fast, too).
---
Prerequisite 2:
That's a kinda jazz "theory" one (it's not exactly theoretical but more oriented towards practical use...). I could likely explain this in more detail, but it's probably not too relevant for now.
However, here goes: When dealing with those typical jazzy 7th chords, in theory, they all consist of 4 notes: root, third, fifth and seventh.
Playing all these would already result in massive problems should we want to add all those 9ths, 11ths and 13ths (which we will take care of later), as we only have 4-5 fingers and 6 strings arranged in a less than ideal order for that kinda thing.
But fortunately, we can leave some things out.
The most commonly left out note in jazzy chord types would be the fifth. The main reason for that being that true jazz players don't want to be mistaken for AC/DC - and as fifths are one of the key elements of power chords, they have to leave.
Well, ok, not really - the reason would be that the fifth is considered "obligatory". Very likely that's because the fifth is such a strong harmonic in pretty much any naturally created sound so it's sort of "ringing along" anyway. It's usually also not adding much functional value, but that's something we shouldn't get into for now.
Note: This is only true for perfect fifths, diminished and augmented fifths usually (but not always) need to be played. For our little chord building exercises we will however leave them out entirely at first - even on that Am7/b5 we will be dealing with.
Then, this is not exactly a theory thing but rather practical: We can as well leave out the root of the chord once we have a bass playing. Taking care of root notes is bass business.
Hence, the central notes we have to care about are the thirds and sevenths of each chord (sometimes they can be left out, too, but for now we will take their existance as a must).
They also serve as the main "descriptional" items in jazzy contexts, the most relevant chord movements are happening with thirds and sevenths involved, but again, this is not the right place to get into more details regarding that.
---
Short resume: To properly "describe" jazzy chords, we need root, third and seventh.
---
Now let's take that to the guitar. The following approach is a mixture of being somewhat guitar oriented and still sort of general (as in: you'll find this to happen pretty much similarily within other instruments).
- Roots typically are low-ish notes (at least that's the range where they're essential, played in higher registers they usually only serve as melody notes), so we will be placing them on either our A5 or E6 strings. You will all know this from your bog standard barré and power chords.
- Thirds and sevenths, being the "center" of our jazz chords, will be placed in a rather centered location, for us that'd be the G3 and D4 strings. Yes, you can play them elsewhere, but for this approach to become more consistent, we will place them there, no exceptions.
- Anything else can be considered decoration - and as decoration is nice but not fundamental, we will place that stuff on our E1 and B2 strings.
---
Note: All of this stuff will work best fingerstyle or pick/fingerstyle.
---
Ok, after all that blurb, let's get right into it.
The first chord cadence we will be faced with is:
Cmin7, F7, Bbj7, (Ebj7). Yeah, I know, the progression continues, but that's the first little progression working on its own, let alone that this is possibly *the* most central jazz progression ever, namely a II-V-I chord movement. Which is also why I set the Ebj7 in brackets. Also, when you're done with this, you have played the 3 most fundamental 7th chords ever already: major 7th chord, minor 7th chord, dominant 7th chord (I hear you already: "But what about that Amin7b5?!?" - look above, those pesky fifths can stay at home for now, even if they're trying to become important in diminished appearances).
Now let's just build the chords. First thing would be to find a proper location for the root notes (even if we may leave them out later on when a bass enters, they're still a common and likely wellknown orientation tool), so we can move from one to the next with rather little movement.
Typically, this would be the first homework thing, but that usually doesn't work on the net, so here we go:
We could use the C root on A5, 3rd fret, but as our evil plans also include to proceed to an Eb later on, for a start, the best choice would be the C located in the 8th fret of our E6 string.
Next things we need are our third and seventh. In case of a min7 chord, we need a minor 3rd (Eb) and a minor 7th (Bb). And we would play them on our D and G strings (note: sometimes the 3rd is on the D string, 7th on the G string, sometimes it's vice versa, you'll see that yourself...). Obviously in a fashion that we can still play the root comfortably.
Ok, as I will have to leave for a while, you may want to figure this out yourself:
1) Root note C, located 8/E6, where's a comfortable place on D4 and G3 to play the notes Eb and Bb? Hint: it's *not* several frets away...
2) As our next chord will be F7, what's the shortest travel for our root note, considering we have E6 and A5 at our disposal?
3) An F7 chord needs a major 3rd (A) and a minor 7th (Eb). Once we found that F root from (2), where do we place them on D4/G3?
4) Next is a Bbj7 chord. What to do?
Really sorry if this comes across as a lame quiz/challenge, but as the next step would be playing and recording some things and as I need to do some different things now, I'll leave it at that.
But I will already say so much: In case you manage (1) through (4), you'll be able to play the entire tune's chords completely on your own already. In a rather easy fashion, but it'll work and it will possibly even sound decent.
The main idea is to actually understand what one is doing. That way, you don't need any tabs, lists of chord shapes and what not.
---
Prerequisite 1:
Knowing or at least being able to find the notes on the fretboard. In case you're not fluent with that, no worries, doing all this will speed things up (perhaps a lot and rather fast, too).
---
Prerequisite 2:
That's a kinda jazz "theory" one (it's not exactly theoretical but more oriented towards practical use...). I could likely explain this in more detail, but it's probably not too relevant for now.
However, here goes: When dealing with those typical jazzy 7th chords, in theory, they all consist of 4 notes: root, third, fifth and seventh.
Playing all these would already result in massive problems should we want to add all those 9ths, 11ths and 13ths (which we will take care of later), as we only have 4-5 fingers and 6 strings arranged in a less than ideal order for that kinda thing.
But fortunately, we can leave some things out.
The most commonly left out note in jazzy chord types would be the fifth. The main reason for that being that true jazz players don't want to be mistaken for AC/DC - and as fifths are one of the key elements of power chords, they have to leave.
Well, ok, not really - the reason would be that the fifth is considered "obligatory". Very likely that's because the fifth is such a strong harmonic in pretty much any naturally created sound so it's sort of "ringing along" anyway. It's usually also not adding much functional value, but that's something we shouldn't get into for now.
Note: This is only true for perfect fifths, diminished and augmented fifths usually (but not always) need to be played. For our little chord building exercises we will however leave them out entirely at first - even on that Am7/b5 we will be dealing with.
Then, this is not exactly a theory thing but rather practical: We can as well leave out the root of the chord once we have a bass playing. Taking care of root notes is bass business.
Hence, the central notes we have to care about are the thirds and sevenths of each chord (sometimes they can be left out, too, but for now we will take their existance as a must).
They also serve as the main "descriptional" items in jazzy contexts, the most relevant chord movements are happening with thirds and sevenths involved, but again, this is not the right place to get into more details regarding that.
---
Short resume: To properly "describe" jazzy chords, we need root, third and seventh.
---
Now let's take that to the guitar. The following approach is a mixture of being somewhat guitar oriented and still sort of general (as in: you'll find this to happen pretty much similarily within other instruments).
- Roots typically are low-ish notes (at least that's the range where they're essential, played in higher registers they usually only serve as melody notes), so we will be placing them on either our A5 or E6 strings. You will all know this from your bog standard barré and power chords.
- Thirds and sevenths, being the "center" of our jazz chords, will be placed in a rather centered location, for us that'd be the G3 and D4 strings. Yes, you can play them elsewhere, but for this approach to become more consistent, we will place them there, no exceptions.
- Anything else can be considered decoration - and as decoration is nice but not fundamental, we will place that stuff on our E1 and B2 strings.
---
Note: All of this stuff will work best fingerstyle or pick/fingerstyle.
---
Ok, after all that blurb, let's get right into it.
The first chord cadence we will be faced with is:
Cmin7, F7, Bbj7, (Ebj7). Yeah, I know, the progression continues, but that's the first little progression working on its own, let alone that this is possibly *the* most central jazz progression ever, namely a II-V-I chord movement. Which is also why I set the Ebj7 in brackets. Also, when you're done with this, you have played the 3 most fundamental 7th chords ever already: major 7th chord, minor 7th chord, dominant 7th chord (I hear you already: "But what about that Amin7b5?!?" - look above, those pesky fifths can stay at home for now, even if they're trying to become important in diminished appearances).
Now let's just build the chords. First thing would be to find a proper location for the root notes (even if we may leave them out later on when a bass enters, they're still a common and likely wellknown orientation tool), so we can move from one to the next with rather little movement.
Typically, this would be the first homework thing, but that usually doesn't work on the net, so here we go:
We could use the C root on A5, 3rd fret, but as our evil plans also include to proceed to an Eb later on, for a start, the best choice would be the C located in the 8th fret of our E6 string.
Next things we need are our third and seventh. In case of a min7 chord, we need a minor 3rd (Eb) and a minor 7th (Bb). And we would play them on our D and G strings (note: sometimes the 3rd is on the D string, 7th on the G string, sometimes it's vice versa, you'll see that yourself...). Obviously in a fashion that we can still play the root comfortably.
Ok, as I will have to leave for a while, you may want to figure this out yourself:
1) Root note C, located 8/E6, where's a comfortable place on D4 and G3 to play the notes Eb and Bb? Hint: it's *not* several frets away...
2) As our next chord will be F7, what's the shortest travel for our root note, considering we have E6 and A5 at our disposal?
3) An F7 chord needs a major 3rd (A) and a minor 7th (Eb). Once we found that F root from (2), where do we place them on D4/G3?
4) Next is a Bbj7 chord. What to do?
Really sorry if this comes across as a lame quiz/challenge, but as the next step would be playing and recording some things and as I need to do some different things now, I'll leave it at that.
But I will already say so much: In case you manage (1) through (4), you'll be able to play the entire tune's chords completely on your own already. In a rather easy fashion, but it'll work and it will possibly even sound decent.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
- Messages
- 6,029
Oh btw, as one of Jens Larsen's videos has been linked already, IMO his channel is a "must subscribe to" thing. Possibly *the* best channel to explain all things jazz, especially for for ambitioned beginners and also somewhat advanced players.
SKU
Roadie
- Messages
- 845
This is gold! Sounds obvious and "simple" i.e. - wait, there's no secret? - but knowing and integrating this into a mental model are different things.
SKU
Roadie
- Messages
- 845
Used to follow him but he, too, became clickbaity and bite sized in his content. A lot of fluff before he gets to the point..
This guy also has some stuff on his channel. Longer videos and blues based but he explains some of this stuff in detail.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
- Messages
- 6,029
Ok, follow up to my last post, here's what the chords would look like using the approach I tried to explain.
Cmin7 with it's root 8/E6 requiring minor 3rd Eb and minor 7th Bb. Trying to place them as physically close as possible to the root on the D4 and G3 strings, we'd end up with a Bb in 8/D4 and an Eb in 8/G3. How handy, all notes in the same position (in fact it's not too handy in case we need maximum string separation...).
So, this is what it'd look like:
-x-
-x-
-8-
-8-
-x-
-8-
No advice on the fingering as there's several ways to skin this cat, pretty much all of them making sense here or there.
The F root note closest to the previous C would be found in 8/A5.
The A and Eb notes closest to our root F in 8/A5 would be the A in 7/D4 and the Eb in 8/G3.
Note how the only movement (apart from the root) from our C7 would be the Bb moving down a halfstep to the A. These kind of close movements are characteristic for "proper" voice leading in jazz and the approach explained here is one way to stay within this realm of close voice movements.
Anyhow, here's what the chord looks like:
-x-
-x-
-8-
-7-
-8-
-x-
Root: 6/E6
Major 3rd D: 7/D4
Major 7th A, 7/G3
-x-
-x-
-7-
-7-
-x-
-6-
Ebj7
Root: 6/A5
Major 3rd G: 5/D4
Major 7th D: 7/G4
-x-
-x-
-7-
-5-
-6-
-x-
So much for the first part of the AL chord progression.
It is now quite easy to complete the second half.
First off: The Gmin chord in AL is often played as a Gmin6 or even as a Gminmaj7. We will skip those options and play it as a "normal" Gmin7 for now (the others aren't any harder to get to, but I'd prefer to finish this first round of explanations with just those 3 chord types).
Then: As said, we will skip the b5 on the Amin7/b5 and just not cover the b5 at all.
As a result, the Amin7(nob5) will look exactly as the Cmin7, just three frets lower.
The D7 will look exactly as the F7, three frets lower.
The Gmin7 will look exactly like the Cmin7 and Amin7, two frets below the Amin7.
And here's what this sounds like as a really quick'n'dirty mockup over the melody (kinda like call and response, which is what the theme is often played like on sessions):
Ok, this is jazz. Next chapter: Mr. Franck's guide on djent chugging.
On a serious note: This approach can be vastly expanded. Could do so in case people are interested.
Cmin7 with it's root 8/E6 requiring minor 3rd Eb and minor 7th Bb. Trying to place them as physically close as possible to the root on the D4 and G3 strings, we'd end up with a Bb in 8/D4 and an Eb in 8/G3. How handy, all notes in the same position (in fact it's not too handy in case we need maximum string separation...).
So, this is what it'd look like:
-x-
-x-
-8-
-8-
-x-
-8-
No advice on the fingering as there's several ways to skin this cat, pretty much all of them making sense here or there.
The F root note closest to the previous C would be found in 8/A5.
The A and Eb notes closest to our root F in 8/A5 would be the A in 7/D4 and the Eb in 8/G3.
Note how the only movement (apart from the root) from our C7 would be the Bb moving down a halfstep to the A. These kind of close movements are characteristic for "proper" voice leading in jazz and the approach explained here is one way to stay within this realm of close voice movements.
Anyhow, here's what the chord looks like:
-x-
-x-
-8-
-7-
-8-
-x-
Root: 6/E6
Major 3rd D: 7/D4
Major 7th A, 7/G3
-x-
-x-
-7-
-7-
-x-
-6-
Ebj7
Root: 6/A5
Major 3rd G: 5/D4
Major 7th D: 7/G4
-x-
-x-
-7-
-5-
-6-
-x-
So much for the first part of the AL chord progression.
It is now quite easy to complete the second half.
First off: The Gmin chord in AL is often played as a Gmin6 or even as a Gminmaj7. We will skip those options and play it as a "normal" Gmin7 for now (the others aren't any harder to get to, but I'd prefer to finish this first round of explanations with just those 3 chord types).
Then: As said, we will skip the b5 on the Amin7/b5 and just not cover the b5 at all.
As a result, the Amin7(nob5) will look exactly as the Cmin7, just three frets lower.
The D7 will look exactly as the F7, three frets lower.
The Gmin7 will look exactly like the Cmin7 and Amin7, two frets below the Amin7.
And here's what this sounds like as a really quick'n'dirty mockup over the melody (kinda like call and response, which is what the theme is often played like on sessions):
Ok, this is jazz. Next chapter: Mr. Franck's guide on djent chugging.
On a serious note: This approach can be vastly expanded. Could do so in case people are interested.
Stratzrus
Roadie
- Messages
- 799
Interesting approach.
And as the saying goes, it's important to know the rules before you break them.
But some of this I'd think of as optional particularly when you get into chord inversions that work harmonically and melodically, while wrestling with the physicality of the guitar in order to have the chords support the melody and still be playable.
As important as theory is, for me the priority is to hear the music in my head and then to play what I hear.
A good understanding of, and facility with the technical aspects of the above are certainly helpful and ideally a firm grasp of it will help you get to the point where all of that is second nature and you don't even think about it, you just play the song that's in your head.
When I think of the people who I consider to be the masters, people like Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, McCoy Tyner, Herbie Hancock, etc. I can feel them playing from the heart.
I can also feel musicians who it seems are playing from the head as well. It can be a great intellectual exercise but to me, a perfect example of what I'm trying to say is that once during a rehearsal of my band with Charles Fambrough (Art Blakey, Pharoah Sanders, Wynton Marsalis, McCoy Tyner), George Johnson (McCoy Tyner, Jimmy Garrison, Grover Washington, Ron Carter, Lou Donaldson) and a local flutist, my mom, a twenty year concert pianist walked in.
She sat on the stairs and listened until we reached the end of the piece we were playing and she said, "You all can really play but music is supposed to make you feel good."
At the time I thought to myself "Well that's fine for old folks but we're trying to push the limits of the genre".
In time I came to appreciate the wisdom of what she was saying, and to me it boiled down to that word "feel". Theory is wonderful as a foundation but only to the degree that it empowers you to play the inner voice that the other musicians inspire in you.
I'm thankful for posts like the one above because it's always helpful to revisit the foundational underpinnings of the art form but I'll always try to use them to help me play that melody, sometimes consonant, sometimes dissonant, that as my mom said "makes you feel good."
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
- Messages
- 6,029
Fwiw, the things I wrote about have very little to do with theory.
itchyfingers
Roadie
- Messages
- 618
Just popping in to say that Jamie Aebersold is the guy who helped me understand as much of the limited jazz knowledge I have. He's been putting out books with backing tracks since before the internet existed. The coolest part about the play alongs is you could pan the balance and remove the bass or keyboard tracks. Super helpful if you're a bass player, or want to make it a little harder on yourself by removing the chordal support playing. The trick to Autumn Leaves (imho) is that it's mostly fourth movement and ii-V-I turnarounds. Anyway, here's a backing track to jam over, courtesy of Jamie...
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
- Messages
- 6,029
To be honest, it's not "my" way (and I wasn't exactly aware of Django doing it similarily, either), I only got that from a mate of mine showing me some things *way* back, so I expanded on it a bit. You can as well look at it as a way to play stock E-form barrés and "A7/9" form chords in a reduced way - that'd give you similar results.
I'm as well by far not the only person doing it this way, I seem to remember a YT video of someone explaining at least a very similar approach.
However, thing is that the basic organisation of this way to deal with things is extremely comfortable.
Maybe I manage to elaborate a little more later on.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
- Messages
- 6,029
Oh btw, "homework" for those feeling inclined:
Create the same chords using the same method, this time starting with a different location of the C root, namely 15/A5. Then proceeding as before, as in finding the shortest way to the next root, finding out thirds and sevenths, locating them on D4/G3.
Sound example:
Edit: GRR! GDrive acting up!
Edit #2: This seems to work now:
Create the same chords using the same method, this time starting with a different location of the C root, namely 15/A5. Then proceeding as before, as in finding the shortest way to the next root, finding out thirds and sevenths, locating them on D4/G3.
Sound example:
Edit: GRR! GDrive acting up!
Edit #2: This seems to work now:
Last edited:
Boudoir Guitar
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,916
For those that want some visuals to go along with, these are the voicings used in Andy's video:
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
- Messages
- 6,029
Fwiw, while I absolutely believe in it to be a good idea to find those voicings by looking out for the actual notes, after a while the shapes should rather be internalized, while still being aware of the function of each note played. The latter would also be the key to modify pretty much any other chords. Things such as "oh, this is the major third in this very chord, in case I lower it by a halftone, the chord will become minor" - as a very blunt example.
Stratzrus
Roadie
- Messages
- 799
The question is whether or not it is "added" to the vocabulary or if it becomes the vocabulary. Many times it's the latter and it's discernible.
The classic example is the blues player who instead of playing from the heart memorizes licks from his favorite players, practices them until he can play them to perfection, and then creates solos playing one memorized lick after another. In the end his playing becomes a recitation of memorized licks not creative spontaneous composition.
The same can be true of Jazz.
George Benson doesn't read music. Neither did Hendrix. They are able to use their ears and be inspired by what they hear to play something that compliments it.
I'm not saying that reading is bad or that learning the fundamentals stifles creativity but it can become a substitute for it.
Last edited:
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
- Messages
- 6,029
Theory doesn't become vocabulary. Theory is like a well sorted toolbox and once you know which tool to use for a certain job, you will find the tool quickly. But it doesn't describe the job itself and it's also not forcing you to use any tools to achieve the quickest results. Just as you don't have to take the most direct path from A to B when you're on a sightseeing tour.
Boudoir Guitar
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,916
If I were anywhere close to a level where I heard lines in my head to play over these chords AND could get them out on the spot, I wouldn’t have started this thread. Baby steps.
