All Things ENGL!

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TBH I‘m not the biggest fan of the Fireball. In fact it‘s my least favorite ENGL amp of the ones I tried. I just don’t like the low end. It‘s huge, but it has a very compressed, woofy, non-punchy character. And the low mids can quickly become quite bloated. Funnily enough, I preferred the Helix model to the real amp.

I laothed it. Hard. And I don't dislike many amps. I can get something out
of most anything. Just felt like the Fireball was a weak collection of the worst
tonal tropes related to Metal. Stiff clean. Overcompressed gain that seemed
somehow to ride on top of this big bottom end rather than being one with it. It
was a very weird amp for me. Made me assume I didn't/wouldn't like any other
Engl amps.


It wasn't fun to play and I don't miss it even a little.

 

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Would love to try the original Savage, still. Got the chance to A/B my 60 MK2 with the 120 Mk2 the other day and, the 120 is definitely cool but I'm just not a fan of KT88s. They always make amps sound cold and weird in the mids to me. The 60 sounds way more alive. The 120 is killer for modern metal but the 60 was almost as good there and way better on literally every other tone in the amp IMO. Weird that you don't see people with the 60s much. I assume it's because Engl only priced them $100 different from each other, but I also understand why people don't ever care about 3/4 of the channels on the 12

Thank you for this. Super helpful.

I thought the Savage 120MKII came with 6550s?

 

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EL-34s. Both only have 2 power tubes. I don't even think it's actually possible for 2 KT-88s or 6550s to put out 120w, so the amp is claiming a rating that's higher than it is.

6550s are in Ampeg SVTs. 4 of them can easily rate at/put out 200W.

Those Big Bottles definitely are capable of more wattage/headroom than
EL34s or 6L6s/5881s.

 

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Anyone know what platform the Steve Morse Sig, the Mart Friedman Inferno, and the Artist Edition
are derived from??

I read the Morse was Invader based. Is that correct?

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

AFAIK Blackmore and Artist Edition are derived from the 1st gen Savage.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

[…] Overcompressed gain that seemed somehow to ride on top of this big bottom end rather than being one with it. […]

I know what you mean. The trick with the Fireball is to back off the bass quite a bit, raise the mids and treble while keeping the presence quite low.

 

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I'll probably never find out.

 

[Mongillo19]

I know what you mean. The trick with the Fireball is to back off the bass quite a bit, raise the mids and treble while keeping the presence quite low.

Yup, it rips with these settings. I was having troubles too until @Whizzinby suggested these settings as well

 

[GTR37]

I laothed it. Hard. And I don't dislike many amps. I can get something out
of most anything. Just felt like the Fireball was a weak collection of the worst
tonal tropes related to Metal. Stiff clean. Overcompressed gain that seemed
somehow to ride on top of this big bottom end rather than being one with it. It
was a very weird amp for me. Made me assume I didn't/wouldn't like any other
Engl amps.


It wasn't fun to play and I don't miss it even a little.

So your saying you would choose a Friedman over an Engl ?

 

[MatrixClaw]

Thank you for this. Super helpful.

I thought the Savage 120MKII came with 6550s?

Yes, you're right, it does say 6550s online. Hmm... Double checked with my friend, he sent me pics of his and it definitely has KT88s. I know he got it used but he said the guy he got it from never mentioned swapping the tubes. I have 6550s in my Sabot and love that amp, weird.

6550s are in Ampeg SVTs. 4 of them can easily rate at/put out 200W.

Those Big Bottles definitely are capable of more wattage/headroom than
EL34s or 6L6s/5881s.

Yes, 100w seems doable with 6550 or KT88. I have a pair in my Armored Sabot and it rates at 80w. I've never seen an amp with two of these that is rated at 120w except the Engl, though. The Fryette SigX had a pair and it was 100w, whereas the Deliverance 120 has 4 and it's 120w, same with the Ultralead. You gotta bias them pretty hot to get max wattage out of them and setting them high enough to get 120w doesn't seem super safe. From what I know of the Engls, they are biased fairly cold from factory, too...

We had both our amps up very high. No noticable difference in volume between the two. The KTs have more "headroom" which is where the wattage probably actually comes into play, but this is where I felt like it fell short to me, because the EL-34 power section gave it a much rounder midrange and chunkier low-end, which the KT88s sounded more hollow and precise on the low-end. The KTs were definitely tighter but I don't feel like it needed to be tighter.

 

[GTR37]

I'll probably never find out.

They are all off the Blackmore
That’s the most popular one
But the Morse and Marty are EL34s and a bit more British power section
The Morse incorporated that MIDS control that’s found in the Engl 530 rack preamp

 

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So your saying you would choose a Friedman over an Engl ?

 

[la szum]

They are all off the Blackmore
That’s the most popular one
But the Morse and Marty are EL34s and a bit more British power section
The Morse incorporated that MIDS control that’s found in the Engl 530 rack preamp

So the Morse Sig is not Invader derived?

Lying-ass Internet anyways.

 

[la szum]

 

[GTR37]

So the Morse Sig is not Invader derived?

God damn lying-ass Internet anyways.

That one could be yes ,

The first product and I remember this , because it was in a George Lynch Interview where he was recording and said none of his stuff was working and then he found the Engl Preamp and power amp (5881s) , that he said had Huge balls , I think he was the first American guitarist to use one
thew preamp has a Hi Mids and a Low mids dial which is really different than your Marshall tone stack almost like a recording console eq and possibly why purists call the amps Hi Fi
The next Came the Savage , its was he tube head version of the preamp that had the 6550s in the power amp , but IIRC it had the lo mids and high mids Eq as well as a contour switch and a bunch of other bells and whistles .
The Blackmore I think was the next and that was as said above a Savage amp but with a more traditional British tone no high lo mids just the standard Marshall controls but it did have a contour switch, it was 5881
The Artist was a Blackmore but the preamp was tweaked a bit more for what ENGL said was LA Rock based and it used El34

The Invader , was likely based on the Powerball , which had 4 channels
the Fireball is based on 2 channels of the Power ball but more Gain and lows

 

[Eagle]

I had an E570 preamp and it had way too many shared eq options that made it effectively a two channel device. Not versatile at all.

 

[aivoryuk]

I had an Ironball but sold it as 20watts was too loud.

I have the Powerball Synergy Module and really like it - it is a very versatile module - can do cleans to crunch and the lead channel does the 90's EVH tone better than the Slo2 module that I had briefly.

 

[mbenigni]

I am smitten. That super dry, tight, percussive thing is a thing.

Any real world experience out there? Lovers? Haters? Mehers?

I had a Fireball 60 once upon a time and it kind of did nothing
for me. Traded it straight up for a Fryette Deliverance 60.

Been mucking about with the Engl Models on the Fractal and
really dig the Savage.

Thoughts? Experiences? Thanks!

My heavy tone on QC ~99% of the time is one of the factory captures of an ENGL Ritchie Blackmore - which, according to what I've read online, is basically a Savage with some additional features.

Unfortunately, the price of these amps in the U.S. (if you were lucky enough to find one in the first place) seems to have skyrocketed in the past year or so.

 

[mbenigni]

Great thread idea! I’d love to learn more about ENGL. I haven’t much direct exposure to the amps but I have liked some captures I’ve played.

And the HX model (Powerball or Fireball? I forget) is a standout as well.

 

[Progressive_disclosure]

And the HX model (Powerball or Fireball? I forget) is a standout as well.

It sure is. The name in the Helix is Meteor and it’s a model of the FB100 if I recall correctly. Only the lead channel is modeled and it’s a bit older (but uses less DSP)

If someone tries it and it sounds off just remember to try toggling the Mid boost setting. It’s set to On as default which might be wayyyy to much and at least on the HX Stomp you need to toggle a page or two of parameters to find it. Really nice to dip your toes on the Fireballs and i thought the 25 I got sounded even better than the model.