Aging amp/fx models?

[laxu]

I just saw someone request the brand new Friedman Jake E. Lee 20W model on Fractal forums because they saw it on YouTube. Happens all the time with new amps. Mark VII had the same thing going.

But this got me to thinking, how will some of these models age over time?

The classics, like your Tube Screamers, Boss pedals, fuzz classics, Fender/Vox/Marshall/Mesa/Hiwatt etc will never age, but there is already a good amount of models that used to be "it", until something new came along. To name a few amps and drives:

• Splawn Nitro and Quickrod
• Mesa Subway Blues
• Bogner Fish
• Suhr Badger
• Cameron CCV
• CAE 3+ SE
• Hook Captain 34
• Carr Rambler
• ENGL Powerball
• Fuchs ODS
• Xotic BB/RC/AC
• Suhr Riot
• Fulltone OCD

Now there is nothing wrong with any of these. They were all something someone asked to be added, when these amps and pedals were popular for whatever reason. But I see nobody really talking about these anymore, saying it's their favorite etc. Not even the real amps. I'm sure someone is happily using them and not talking about them on forums, but it does show the fickle nature of guitarists.

There's always the next new thing right around the corner. It's not that much different from the old hyped devices, but it's new with a shiny coat of paint and shown to sound great when some excellent guitarist is demoing it.

If we assume that modelers aren't going to throw away all this stuff going into the next generation, what will things look like in 5 years? We are presumably debating if the Axe-Fx IV sounds like a tube amp or not, but will people even remember say a Friedman BE? They will sound fine, but will the player who picks up an Axe-Fx IV or Line6 Double Helix think how awesome it is that these "not exactly classic" amp models are included? To stay relevant, will these new modelers instead have to be adding amp models that are popular in that era?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I just saw someone request the brand new Friedman Jake E. Lee 20W model on Fractal forums because they saw it on YouTube. Happens all the time with new amps. Mark VII had the same thing going.

But this got me to thinking, how will some of these models age over time?

The classics, like your Tube Screamers, Boss pedals, fuzz classics, Fender/Vox/Marshall/Mesa/Hiwatt etc will never age, but there is already a good amount of models that used to be "it", until something new came along. To name a few amps and drives:

• Splawn Nitro and Quickrod
• Mesa Subway Blues
• Bogner Fish
• Suhr Badger
• Cameron CCV
• CAE 3+ SE
• Hook Captain 34
• Carr Rambler
• ENGL Powerball
• Fuchs ODS
• Xotic BB/RC/AC
• Suhr Riot
• Fulltone OCD

Now there is nothing wrong with any of these. They were all something someone asked to be added, when these amps and pedals were popular for whatever reason. But I see nobody really talking about these anymore, saying it's their favorite etc. Not even the real amps. I'm sure someone is happily using them and not talking about them on forums, but it does show the fickle nature of guitarists.

There's always the next new thing right around the corner. It's not that much different from the old hyped devices, but it's new with a shiny coat of paint and shown to sound great when some excellent guitarist is demoing it.

If we assume that modelers aren't going to throw away all this stuff going into the next generation, what will things look like in 5 years? We are presumably debating if the Axe-Fx IV sounds like a tube amp or not, but will people even remember say a Friedman BE? They will sound fine, but will the player who picks up an Axe-Fx IV or Line6 Double Helix think how awesome it is that these "not exactly classic" amp models are included? To stay relevant, will these new modelers instead have to be adding amp models that are popular in that era?

Still see plenty of people talking about Suhr Badger, Splawns, Carr everything, OCD, Riot, RC and BB booster and I don't even spend a lot of time in the amp/pedal subforms.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I think it’s quite common for there to be more noise about things that haven’t been modelled yet, and the talk to die down quickly once a unit has been modelled. I think plenty (or even most) of the models on that list are still very desirable and commonly spoken about.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I just saw someone request the brand new Friedman Jake E. Lee 20W model on Fractal forums because they saw it on YouTube. Happens all the time with new amps. Mark VII had the same thing going.

The JEL20? Sure, give me a diet version of an amp.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

The JEL20? Sure, give me a diet version of an amp.

It’s like asking for a model of the Bogner 35 watt xtc

 

[paisleywookiee]

It’s like asking for a model of the Bogner 35 watt xtc

I wonder when someone is going to ask for the Marshall MS-2?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I wonder when someone is going to ask for the Marshall MS-2?

DON’T FORGET TO IR THE CAB!!!!!!!

 

[ragingplatypi]

I’m trying to wrack my brain for amps that were once desirable and are no longer. All I can think of is a VHT/Fryette which is actually still desirable to a lot of folks but maybe too niche.

 

[James Freeman]

Digital GAS.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

I wonder when someone is going to ask for the Marshall MS-2?

DON’T FORGET TO IR THE CAB!!!!!!!

I want this to happen just so I can hear it with studio reverb and complex pedal chains

 

[metropolis_4]

I don’t think the OCD belongs on that list


It’s an interesting thought though, there’s definitely some gear that went through a period of being in vogue and was in high demand, but has since faded. Probably something that needs to be carefully considered when choosing what to spend time and resources modeling

 

[James Freeman]

In my opinion tube amps have reached their innovative peak in the mid 90s.

Soldano SLO100, Peavey 5150, MESA Rectifier, Diezel VH4 all appeared between 1987 and 1994, and covered all the high gain anyone would even need.
Friedman and Bogner are modified 80s Marshalls.
All the new high gain stuff like REVV, Mezzabarba, EVH, Victory, PRS, what have you, are tweaked 90s high gain amps.

I am not surprised people go back to the 60s-90s classics, you really don't need much more, maybe a boost pedal or some pre-eq.

 

[PLX]

In my opinion tube amps have reached their innovative peak in the mid 90s.

Soldano SLO100, Peavey 5150, MESA Rectifier, Diezel VH4 all appeared between 1987 and 1994, and covered all the high gain anyone would even need.
Friedman and Bogner are modified 80s Marshalls.
All the new high gain stuff like REVV, Mezzabarba, EVH, Victory, PRS, what have you, are tweaked 90s high gain amps.

I am not surprised people go back to the 60s-90s classics, you really don't need much more, maybe a boost pedal or some pre-eq.

 

[laxu]

In my opinion tube amps have reached their innovative peak in the mid 90s.

Soldano SLO100, Peavey 5150, MESA Rectifier, Diezel VH4 all appeared between 1987 and 1994, and covered all the high gain anyone would even need.
Friedman and Bogner are modified 80s Marshalls.
All the new high gain stuff like REVV, Mezzabarba, EVH, Victory, PRS, what have you, are tweaked 90s high gain amps.

I am not surprised people go back to the 60s-90s classics, you really don't need much more, maybe a boost pedal or some pre-eq.

Pretty much, and the same applies to any lower gain amps too. The main improvements are things like:

• Power scaling
• Better master volumes
• Better cab sims
• Lighter weight
• Better fx loops
• Digital fx built in (even if it's just reverb)

But soundwise there's a lot of "take an old thing, tweak it and now it's new and popular again for a bit." As much as I love say a Mesa Lonestar Classic, it's mostly a hotrodded Fender Twin with different speakers.

I don’t think the OCD belongs on that list


It’s an interesting thought though, there’s definitely some gear that went through a period of being in vogue and was in high demand, but has since faded. Probably something that needs to be carefully considered when choosing what to spend time and resources modeling

I knew people would say "this or that doesn't belong here". Many still use an OCD, but few are touting it as the best drive anymore over newer arrivals. It used to be one of the pedals on so many boards, with people debating the differences of its various versions.

I wanted to put things like the 20W Marshall SV20H on the list too. I'm sure someone will say they love it, but did it really need to be modeled when we had so many Superleads already? The whole Studio range is about "smaller, cheaper and slightly less loud", which are all irrelevant selling points in the digital realm.

But like the JEL20, the SV20H was once the new thing, so of course people asked for it. "Digital GAS" is a great term for this phenomenon.

I agree that modeler manufacturers should be considerate of what they model so they are not just adding "more" to their device but also something that is different enough to be worth including. Having some sort of capture functionality included might still be the best way to appease the "digital GAS" people.

 

[Orvillain]

In my opinion tube amps have reached their innovative peak in the mid 90s.

Soldano SLO100, Peavey 5150, MESA Rectifier, Diezel VH4 all appeared between 1987 and 1994, and covered all the high gain anyone would even need.
Friedman and Bogner are modified 80s Marshalls.
All the new high gain stuff like REVV, Mezzabarba, EVH, Victory, PRS, what have you, are tweaked 90s high gain amps.

I am not surprised people go back to the 60s-90s classics, you really don't need much more, maybe a boost pedal or some pre-eq.

God, what a list of boner material.

 

[DrewJD82]

Hahaha I think it’d take some kind of massive overhaul of a platform for any of the modeling companies to remove any existing models at this point. There’s 10 pages of debates and testimonies on the FAS forum when Cliff has mentioned changing the name, location or how a menu item works, never mind removing something.

I’m at a loss for words, I can’t comprehend how a company could do this to their customers. I can’t believe I paid for something that I now have less of. The Sphynxter 69 Mauve Channel has been my go-to for when I ask my wife which pickups she likes more in pickup shootouts. It sounds exactly like my Boss Katana after my friend dials it in for me, not sure which setting, but I know that amp like the back of my hand and it’s just home to me, having a digital version of it made life basically worth living and that’s gone now so just fuck me I guess. I’d say I’m taking my money elsewhere but I just gave up on everything except this post. After I’m done typing this I’m just going to press Post Reply and sit here forever until I rot

 

[Elric]

Not feeling this thread. You got some classics in there, IMHO.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Right now my favorite model is the three SLO channels, and that’s not a spring chicken of an amp. Also REALLY loving the Smallbox, not exactly new.