Adventures in Fractal's Dual Rectifiers

[riffy]

@MirrorProfiles

I don't know about the Axe-Fx, but I can confirm when I clone my Orange channel to Modern I really can't tell any difference in sound no matter where the presence knob is set. I only use the treble and mid k one to adjust my high end content.

Red channel, I keep the treble lower, and adjust the high end using the presence knob.

 

[FractalAudio]

its me again

Diving into the orange channel again, red gets a bit too much attention considering how diverse and fun the orange channel can be.

As we know, in vintage mode the Orange channel has NFB and the presence pot works like most amps. In Orange Modern mode, the NFB is disconnected. On the real amp, this means the Orange channel presence pot becomes inactive (besides maybe some VERY subtle crosstalk stuff going on).

@FractalAudio

In the Fractal Recto1 Orange Modern mode, the presence pot affects the tone a LOT which is nothing like the amp behaviour. I'm assuming (because NFB is at 0) that this presence control is copying the Red Channel's presence (which is a filter at the end of the preamp). Should this be set to 10 to make it closer to the real amp behaviour?

The way it currently behaves isn't like the real amp - it leads to dialling in things very differently and landing on tones that the real amp wouldn't produce. I verified this behaviour using the Mercuriall plugin, and its also commonly written about online:
View attachment 16454

IMO the Orange Modern mode shouldn't have a presence control on the Tone/Authentic page, and at default settings it should reflect the behaviour of the original amp. If Recto1 Red Vintage (red channel cloning the orange channel) gets added, it would be awesome to have both presence controls.

Anyone able to verify this?

These situations always present a dilemma:
Option 1: Remove the presence control and deal with "Why u no hav presence control on the Recto1 Orange Modern model. The real map has one."
Option 2: Put a presence control on there that doesn't do anything and deal with "Hey idiots, the presence control on the Recto1 Orange Model is broken."
Option 3: Put a presence control on the model that actually does something but defaults to a value (in this case 5.0) that matches the amp's native behavior.

We chose Option 3.

 

[Orvillain]

FWIW - the newest multi-watt recto's ... all modes of the orange and red channel have presence behaviour.

 

[FractalAudio]

FWIW - the newest multi-watt recto's ... all modes of the orange and red channel have presence behaviour.

Yes. The Recto2 models have this behavior (or behaviour depending upon which side of the pond you're on).

 

[Orvillain]

Yes. The Recto2 models have this behavior (or behaviour depending upon which side of the pond you're on).

 

[MirrorProfiles]

These situations always present a dilemma:
Option 1: Remove the presence control and deal with "Why u no hav presence control on the Recto1 Orange Modern model. The real map has one."
Option 2: Put a presence control on there that doesn't do anything and deal with "Hey idiots, the presence control on the Recto1 Orange Model is broken."
Option 3: Put a presence control on the model that actually does something but defaults to a value (in this case 5.0) that matches the amp's native behavior.

We chose Option 3.

Cool, good to know that at 5 it matches the real amp. Not worth the trouble of changing (because presumably it would mess up things more than it would stand to gain) but IMO its something that belongs in the ideal tab as its not a behaviour* or feature of the real amp, its an optional extra that users might want to tinker with. For the next gen modeller having the option to pin (or remove) certain parameters to the main tab would be awesome.

Similarish amp settings dialled by ear, MV Bright Cap on Fractal model set to 15pF

Real Amp:



Fractal 15pF MV Bright Cap:



Fractal at default MV Bright cap settings:



Quite amazing how closely Fractal does these sounds given the complexity and variables. Being able to change impedance curves is currently the single feature that sets Fractal above the competition as far as I'm concerned. As with the Red Modern mode, the MV Bright cap has been a revelation for me.

Spoiler: *

*[

 

[DrewJD82]

Cool, good to know that at 5 it matches the real amp. Not worth the trouble of changing (because presumably it would mess up things more than it would stand to gain) but IMO its something that belongs in the ideal tab as its not a behaviour* or feature of the real amp, its an optional extra that users might want to tinker with. For the next gen modeller having the option to pin (or remove) certain parameters to the main tab would be awesome.

Similarish amp settings dialled by ear, MV Bright Cap on Fractal model set to 15pF

Real Amp:



Fractal 15pF MV Bright Cap:



Fractal at default MV Bright cap settings:



Quite amazing how closely Fractal does these sounds given the complexity and variables. Being able to change impedance curves is currently the single feature that sets Fractal above the competition as far as I'm concerned. As with the Red Modern mode, the MV Bright cap has been a revelation for me.

Spoiler: *

*[

View attachment 16458

Wow, I never paid attention to the Orange channel even when I owned a Dual Rec. I'm uh.....gonna change that today. That sounds fucking glorious.

 

[riffy]

Now, you all are going to hate mine, but this is mine with the Orange cloned Red with an 808 as a boost and delay and verb added in post. This is a solo sound for me.

my fingers aren't working for please forgive the sloppy playing and I was sitting right on top of the cab and the amp was on 4 so it was kinda loud and there is noise obviously.

 

[deathbyguitar]

I've got to get a load box so I can compare my MW to the models. I'm sure it's very close but I'm still curious.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Some MW testing. These seem to correspond pretty closely to the amp, the hardest part is finding an impedance curve that matches one of my cabs exactly.





Could have dialled them a bit closer but its a faff to keep reamping, listening back, reamping again (plugins make this so much easier....).

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Threw in STL Tonality Middleton because it has a Multi Watt model too

 

[State of Epicicity]

Some MW testing. These seem to correspond pretty closely to the amp, the hardest part is finding an impedance curve that matches one of my cabs exactly.





Could have dialled them a bit closer but its a faff to keep reamping, listening back, reamping again (plugins make this so much easier....).

I can't listen to these until later today, but I did want to recommend that after you've found the closest curve and adjusted BMT etc, then to adjust the speaker impedance to customize it until it sounds right. I would actually start first with the low frequency parameters only and see if that gets you close enough, then try the highs. I think customizing that section is so powerful, and probably the missing link for some people.

 

[0XI0]

Some MW testing. These seem to correspond pretty closely to the amp, the hardest part is finding an impedance curve that matches one of my cabs exactly.





Could have dialled them a bit closer but its a faff to keep reamping, listening back, reamping again (plugins make this so much easier....).

I can't get over how the amp always sounds like it has this mid scoop in the distortion itself, like it's not the tonestack, there's so much space inside the clipping you can hear different chunks of broken waveforms like it's parallel distortion with time offsets or something. where all the modelers seem to have to fill in the gaps and it's more compressed/homogeneous no matter how much you scoop the model mids, quad cortex captures fill in the space too.

 

[Mongillo19]

quad cortex captures fill in the space too.

I wonder if NAM and Tone X also? I just ask since they are more accurate

 

[JT]

Cool, good to know that at 5 it matches the real amp. Not worth the trouble of changing (because presumably it would mess up things more than it would stand to gain) but IMO its something that belongs in the ideal tab as its not a behaviour* or feature of the real amp, its an optional extra that users might want to tinker with. For the next gen modeller having the option to pin (or remove) certain parameters to the main tab would be awesome.

Similarish amp settings dialled by ear, MV Bright Cap on Fractal model set to 15pF

Real Amp:



Fractal 15pF MV Bright Cap:



Fractal at default MV Bright cap settings:



Quite amazing how closely Fractal does these sounds given the complexity and variables. Being able to change impedance curves is currently the single feature that sets Fractal above the competition as far as I'm concerned. As with the Red Modern mode, the MV Bright cap has been a revelation for me.

Spoiler: *

*[

View attachment 16458

Jesus christ these sound fucking GREAT

 

[Deadpan]

Some MW testing. These seem to correspond pretty closely to the amp, the hardest part is finding an impedance curve that matches one of my cabs exactly.





Could have dialled them a bit closer but its a faff to keep reamping, listening back, reamping again (plugins make this so much easier....).

I am interested in getting involved here. Can you send the guitar DI used? I have a Few rectos and it would be interesting to cross this with the other Recto thread.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Ok. I will say, "No Mids!" Again!


I love Rectifiers. Own a Trem-O-Verb..... and think the way Rectos were used and dialed in also
did as much to ruin great guitar tones as create them. Rectos were a double-edged sword from
my perspective. Is that Bass? No. It's guitar occupying the low end in spades, and vacating the Mids.

There is a reason a lot of those iconic Rectifier tones were actually blended with a Marshall. Sometimes
a lot. Sometimes a little. But they had to use a Marshall to get what? Oh yeah, Mids.

I wish I knew you back when I couldn't hear myself in the mix!

 

[la szum]

It probably wouldn't have done any good, as I couldn't hear myself in the mix either.

In fairness, I don't think my tonal V on the EQ was ever as drastic as some. I probably
was just a lower case v.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I am interested in getting involved here. Can you send the guitar DI used? I have a Few rectos and it would be interesting to cross this with the other Recto thread.

Sent a PM!

 

[Deadpan]

Cool, good to know that at 5 it matches the real amp. Not worth the trouble of changing (because presumably it would mess up things more than it would stand to gain) but IMO its something that belongs in the ideal tab as its not a behaviour* or feature of the real amp, its an optional extra that users might want to tinker with. For the next gen modeller having the option to pin (or remove) certain parameters to the main tab would be awesome.

Similarish amp settings dialled by ear, MV Bright Cap on Fractal model set to 15pF

Real Amp:



Fractal 15pF MV Bright Cap:



Fractal at default MV Bright cap settings:

Here is the 50th Anniversary MW Triple Modern through a Mesa 2x12 mic'd with a single SM57. Setting matched to @MirrorProfiles

I tried to match the level to the other clips but there were some variances, so I aimed for in between.