WTF Ernie Ball?

[norminal]

And as I said, you'd have to turn the guitar a LOT more than any incremental amount the picture might not be perfectly perpendicular, for those strings to appear that far off.

To be fair (God I despise that term), this is dependent on the type of lens used, how far the camera is away from the subject, zoom, etc.

 

[norminal]

If you look at the top picture, you can see the upper and left side of the knobs, whereas the bottom picture, you can only see the upper side of the knobs. That alone shows that the camera they used was not in the exact position for both guitars when taking the shot.

The only way to rule this out is to physically take measurements of the guitar. You cannot judge this accurately from a photo.

 

[Eagle]

Disagree all you want. You're wrong.

You need more pictures or the same guitars. And an explanation for the view discrepancy on the knobs before you can say that.

 

[TSJMajesty]

It's NOT the picture.

Assuming you want to use the knobs in the lower pic as a reference, you'd need to angle the guitar more to the right to make the knobs appear straight-on, which would make the strings appear even worse.

I'm telling you, this is a POOR QC ISSUE at EBMM.

How bout this one? Is this also the picture angle?

Both guitars are shot at the same angle- very close to straight-on, if not perfectly so. Even if you turned the red one slightly, those strings would still not be centered.

IF that camera angle is slightly off-axis, the strings would still be offset if you turned the guitar to face you perfectly.

I get what both of you are saying, but it's NOT enough to bring those strings into alignment.

Pick up any of your guitars, look straight-on, the rotate the guitar to make the strings appear like the red one, and see how far you have to turn it. Assuming your strings are centered, you'd have to turn the guitar much further than however much you think these guitars are not photographed straight-on, or however much you think the camera is distorting.

You can even see it in my new 7-string pics. And it appears the same way IRL. But in the case of that guitar, the strings are equidistant from the fret ends/fretboard edges, so it's fine. The dots are just slightly off relative to the strings.

I'm done with this. It's a problem that EBMM needs to address. Simple as that.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Both guitars are shot at the same angle- very close to straight-on, if not perfectly so. Even if you turned the red one slightly, those strings would still not be centered.

Eh, look at the lighting on the upper horns. They'd be reflecting in the same places if it were the same angle. The first set of pics looked more same-y.

But yeah I think something may be off with the guitars themselves, too. I need to check some out

 

[Eagle]

It's NOT the picture.

Assuming you want to use the knobs in the lower pic as a reference, you'd need to angle the guitar more to the right to make the knobs appear straight-on, which would make the strings appear even worse.

I'm telling you, this is a POOR QC ISSUE at EBMM.

How bout this one? Is this also the picture angle?View attachment 40884View attachment 40885

Both guitars are shot at the same angle- very close to straight-on, if not perfectly so. Even if you turned the red one slightly, those strings would still not be centered.

IF that camera angle is slightly off-axis, the strings would still be offset if you turned the guitar to face you perfectly.

I get what both of you are saying, but it's NOT enough to bring those strings into alignment.

Pick up any of your guitars, look straight-on, the rotate the guitar to make the strings appear like the red one, and see how far you have to turn it. Assuming your strings are centered, you'd have to turn the guitar much further than however much you think these guitars are not photographed straight-on, or however much you think the camera is distorting.

You can even see it in my new 7-string pics. And it appears the same way IRL. But in the case of that guitar, the strings are equidistant from the fret ends/fretboard edges, so it's fine. The dots are just slightly off relative to the strings.

I'm done with this. It's a problem that EBMM needs to address. Simple as that.

It is the pictures . The angle on all the pictures is totally consistent with the amount out it looks. If it was actually out this information could be contradictory and it isn’t in any of your pictures.

 

[Eagle]

It is not possible for a CNC cut body to be off in this manner.

 

[TSJMajesty]

It is not possible for a CNC cut body to be off in this manner.

JFC Expand your thinking, if that's possible.

The necks could be bent. It wouldn't require that much either.

 

[norminal]

I’ve been doing freelance graphic design for over 30 years and have had issues similar to this when doing product photography. My sister, who if a professional photographer, does most, if not all of the product photography for me, as she has a proper studio. Because of this, we almost always shoot with a 50mm lens as they are less likely to produce this phenomenon.

I’m not saying that this is the case, but I just think it’s very likely. And again, with the two other examples above, the upper photo is showing the rubber rings from about 7-2 o’clock while the lower is showing them from about 8-3.

Unless you’ve physically put your hands on these examples, it’s impossible to say either way. But I’m chalking it up as lens distortion.

 

[[Nathan]]

I’ve been doing freelance graphic design for over 30 years and have had issues similar to this when doing product photography. My sister, who if a professional photographer, does most, if not all of the product photography for me, as she has a proper studio. Because of this, we almost always shoot with a 50mm lens as they are less likely to product this phenomenon.

I’m not saying that this is the case, but I just think it’s very likely. And again, with the two other examples above, the upper photo is showing the rubber rings from about 7-2 o’clock while the lower is showing them from about 8-3.

Unless you’ve physically put your hands on these examples, it’s impossible to say either way. But I’m chalking it up as lens distortion.

Yeah, even if the camera/lens is fixed on a tripod and never moves... just placing the guitar down on a stand you'd have to be extremely detailed every single time to align it as best as possible. And im not talking well its on the stand that also doesnt move so thats good enough, small turns are enough to cause this kind of thing in the real world for sure (you already know this, im just +1 it all).

I'm not sure what their setup is like but if I was the product photographer here and heard this string centering was a complaint from customers I'd be tethering the feed to a large monitor and making sure it all lines up through the lens as you're shooting. The images in general look great/professional and this margin for product image drift/off centering would be acceptable IMO.

It's highly possible the guitars also have the issue and its nothing to do with the camera, but agreed, based off the pictures I wouldnt judge it this harshly, things happen IRL that can explain this.

 

[Eagle]

I’ve been doing freelance graphic design for over 30 years and have had issues similar to this when doing product photography. My sister, who if a professional photographer, does most, if not all of the product photography for me, as she has a proper studio. Because of this, we almost always shoot with a 50mm lens as they are less likely to produce this phenomenon.

I’m not saying that this is the case, but I just think it’s very likely. And again, with the two other examples above, the upper photo is showing the rubber rings from about 7-2 o’clock while the lower is showing them from about 8-3.

Unless you’ve physically put your hands on these examples, it’s impossible to say either way. But I’m chalking it up as lens distortion.

I was a pro photographer in the 80s and I agree entirely.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I’ve been doing freelance graphic design for over 30 years and have had issues similar to this when doing product photography. My sister, who if a professional photographer, does most, if not all of the product photography for me, as she has a proper studio. Because of this, we almost always shoot with a 50mm lens as they are less likely to produce this phenomenon.

I’m not saying that this is the case, but I just think it’s very likely. And again, with the two other examples above, the upper photo is showing the rubber rings from about 7-2 o’clock while the lower is showing them from about 8-3.

Unless you’ve physically put your hands on these examples, it’s impossible to say either way. But I’m chalking it up as lens distortion.

Then why not photograph the guitars so the strings look centered?

And if it's some sort of distortion, then you can't use the knobs as any type of comparison, since they too could be distorted.

Strings are what..., 1/16" off the board? And that low E is about 1/8" from where it should be. So that's 2/1 = tan of the angle. So that means the guitar would need to be at a 35 degree angle for the string to only appear to be offset. And it's not.

Further, go look at PRS pictures. You won't find this string issue in virtually any of them. But if it's all camera distortion, they'd be in those pics too.

And, I own 4 EBMM guitars, and only the JP15 is perfect. The JR is ever so slightly off, wrt the dots; My Enchanted Forest is a bit more, and my 20th Majesty is off enough that I can pull the high e off the board if I'm not very careful with my technique.

It's NOT THE PICTURES!

 

[TSJMajesty]

I'll tell you what...

I will buy this Luke 4. If I'm wrong, I'll give it to you. If I'm right, you buy it from me, at no cost to me. Iow, you cover my shipping and tax.

We could get someone to hold the money in escrow. That's how confident I am that it's not the pics.

How confident are you?

 

[norminal]

I couldn’t find those examples on their website, but here’s what lens they’re using:

 

[norminal]

I'll tell you what...

I will buy this Luke 4. If I'm wrong, I'll give it to you. If I'm right, you buy it from me, at no cost to me. Iow, you cover my shipping and tax.

We could get someone to hold the money in escrow. That's how confident I am that it's not the pics.

How confident are you?

Yeah, I’m going to have to pass on that. How about you just email the dealer and ask for additional photos? Have them pull up on the trem and deck the strings to the fretboard.

 

[norminal]

If you’re right, send me your address and I’ll have a set of Ernie Ball RPS 12’s drop shipped to you.

 

[Eagle]

A 24-105 will distort like crazy. Look through any mirrorless or DSLR and add even the smallest tilt or set the camera not perfectly perpendicular and exactly centred and you get what you see. On top of that the action on the bass E is higher than the high E so even perfectly aligned the difference in action will make the strings look differently spaced when both viewed even perfectly aligned.
It’s the photos.

 

[norminal]

A 24-105 will distort like crazy. Look through any mirrorless or DSLR and add even the smallest tilt or set the camera not perfectly perpendicular and exactly centred and you get what you see. On top of that the action on the bass E is higher than the high E so even perfectly aligned the difference in action will make the strings look differently spaced when both viewed even perfectly aligned.
It’s the photos.

I was going to do my own test on one of my own guitars but my sister is way too busy at the moment to lend me her gear.

 

[TSJMajesty]

If you’re right, send me your address and I’ll have a set of Ernie Ball RPS 12’s drop shipped to you.

So how would any additional pics make me right in your mind, if you believe it to be a problem with the photos? Should I ask them to use a phone camera? Cuz I'll call them...

I've given anecdotes (my own guitars), comparables (PRS vs. EBMM, and various EBMM models), a little trigonometry, and a very plausible explanation for how it happens- the necks bending ever so slightly after the guitar is past the point where they could do anything about it.

I'm not sure what their setup is like but if I was the product photographer here and heard this string centering was a complaint from customers I'd be tethering the feed to a large monitor and making sure it all lines up through the lens as you're shooting.

Sure. But only if the strings are truly centered IRL. Otherwise, that would be somewhat deceptive.

The images in general look great/professional and this margin for product image drift/off centering would be acceptable IMO.

Again, I'd point out the difference in how close the strings are to the ends of the frets on EBMM guitars, vs. say PRS.

The pull-offs I did on my 20th Majesty showed me just how important getting that QC right is on these models. On a PRS, you have more room, so on those, I could agree that a slight off-centering would be acceptable. But, 2 things: It's just not an issue on PRS guitars, and it affects the playability negatively.

 

[PBGas]

I have 4 very recent EBMMs and none of them have these issues. I repair many guitars every week and there are issues with all of the brands out there.

With that, you would think someone would maybe take a look at what is being posted on their site and say….yah, maybe not the best view?