What's your "litmus test" for a modeler?

[Bruce]

The AxeFx III is no doubt king of the hill. . What could Boss, NUX, Atomic, Line 6 and others offer for $1500? Seems to me like a lot… Moonshot Modeling stuff. Bring it I say.

So far……..not as good value so far in my opinion and I’ve tried many. It just doesn’t sound as good, the stuff isn’t as serviced with updates and features and the editors aren’t as slick.

 

[hippietim]

I have. The Pink Taco and JJ JR. Dave told me a new v2 of the Pink Taco is coming. Waiting on that.

Because there's so many unanswered questions from the Pink Taco OG?

 

[Lopp]

1. Sounds good without a bunch of hoop jumping.

This. Some modelers sound good out of the box with a variety of different settings. Others require a bunch of research and tweaking to get one good tone from a particular amp model.

I like to play, not tweak.

I like a lot of clarity and articulation
On my gain tones

Attack - is the attack there on the low can it be percussive when playing fast staccato runs or does the low end smear

Harmonics and sustain
Can you get pinch harmonics and squeals leaping off the fretboard
Do the natural harmonics ring out over the frets
Can you do tapped harmonics like EVH
When I hold a note will it Sustain or with light vibrato w it go into natural feed back

Dynamics with volume roll off

I am sure there are others but those are the main initial things I look for pretty much the same as I look for in a real tube amp

Also this. Along with plug-and-play, I was going to say my litmus test is my perceived response to my picking. You gave a more thorough explanation of exactly what I like.

What do you think will "immortalize" a modeler?
Basically, what will make a modeler just as useful in 30 years as it is now without wanting and long after the support has stopped, assuming the hardware remained in pristine condition.

Improvements in IR or some other sort of cabinet modeling technology could immortalize a modeler. Most of the complaints about modelers are from people comparing them through an IR to an amp and cab in the room. Make it sound like a cab in the room when playing through a "FRFR", it will be golden, if not immortal.

IMHO, they are already immortal when compared to tube amps when playing through a real cab. I could get close enough to my Friedman BE-100 with my AX8 through the same 4x12 that any difference was negligible. I would have been fine using the AX8 forever because I had already dialed in my tones, getting a new modeler would require some tweaking to get my desired tones, and I hate tweaking because I prefer playing.

Now I have an FM9 that I still need to dial in better. Why did I get it when I was fine using the AX8?... ADHD and seeing a new shiny object... That combined with putting my name on the list just-in-case and FAS running out of FM9 stock, resulting in scarcity mentality when my name finally came up on the list.

 

[ejecta]

1) Does it sound convincing when I record it with a full mix
2) Does it sound brutal as hell when I play it loud with a drummer
3) Does it survive a 3 story balcony fall better than a Nintendo GameCube?

1. Feel
2. Feel
3. See numbers 1 and 2

 

[TSJMajesty]

1. Feel
2. Feel

What's that?

 

[ejecta]

What's that?

Ask "the-prooper".

 

[Alex Kenivel]

What's that?

 

[Bob Zaod]

Jokes aside, what I need are great Marshalls with good cleanup. Need that punchy "kerrang" from a cranked plexi or 2204/03.
I never got that out of the Helix after three years, found it within 5 minutes with the Axe III. Sealed the deal for me.

Yeah I had an FM3 for a spell and I agree their Marshalls are certainly better in a "FRFR" or headphone environment. A recent discovery I made with Helix though was how much more accurate and better the Helix Marshalls are especially the Line 6 2204 mod into a DSL40c's return jack compared to the same models into an "FRFR". I gigged a real JCM800 2203 for 10 years or so and it was literally as close to the amp I had, as I have experienced with any modeler. It did help that I was also plugged into a 4x12 loaded with V30's and G12T-75's and playing at around 98db most the time I was testing and tweaking the patch but it's there you just gotta use the correct environment for it. It was as good as any JCM800 2204 I tried in the FM3. I will say I did not try it that way with the FM3 when I had it. I bought the FM3 to see if it could supplant my Helix LT and in the end it was more of a "do I now buy an FC-6 and a MI expression pedal so I have enough switches and such"? Kind of deal and my decision was no so I sent it back. if I were going strictly on "FRFR" tones I'd have kept it.

That is also not a tone I go for these days. I really prefer Mesa style tones now.

 

[Mooselake]

Is it fun to play?

 

[Los-D]

To me it’s 2 things:

1) How it sounds in a band mix (whether everyone is "FRFR" or through cabs). Reminds me a lot of good vs bad CGI. Good modelers just… fit. With bad ones, they feel like “in parallel” to the mix, not in it. I know you can EQ your way to almost anything but essentially you’re boiling milk at that point.

2) How it “behaves” (dynamics, compression, “feel”, response). Some sound good but like a plastic version of the real thing.

YMMV as always

 

[surffisherman]

I would love to see much more affordable scaled down Kemper's, Fractal's etc...

Not everybody needs the most possible settings and capabilities .

 

[bgh]

I would love to see much more affordable scaled down Kemper's, Fractal's etc...

Not everybody needs the most possible settings and capabilities .

This was why I went with the Mooer GE300. It had a decent feature set, sounded good, and was a whole lot less expensive. After I got it, I was pleasently surprised at how good a job of capturing tones from my amps and pedals.

 

[Lopp]

I would love to see much more affordable scaled down Kemper's, Fractal's etc...

Not everybody needs the most possible settings and capabilities .

Over a decade ago, Cliff made mentioned the Axe-Fx belt buckle. I'm still waiting on that one.

 

[metropolis_4]

I would love to see much more affordable scaled down Kemper's, Fractal's etc...

Not everybody needs the most possible settings and capabilities .

Isn't that what the FM3 is?

 

[Mongillo19]

Isn't that what the FM3 is?

Since the FM9 I've seen used FM3s in the $800 area

 

[Orvillain]

The FM3 is just a tinnnnnyyyy bit too limiting for me, which is why I never got one. I went straight to Axe III, really liked it, needed some money, sold it... bought a Turbo 6 weeks later, because I'm a fucking idiot.

I wanna get an FC12 early next year, coz I'm fairly sure I wanna try and move to the Axe III for my band. But we'll see. Me and modelling work really well together in studio environments.... not so much in a rehearsal or live performance one..... but I'm game.

 

[JiveTurkey]

The FM3 is just a tinnnnnyyyy bit too limiting for me, which is why I never got one. I went straight to Axe III, really liked it, needed some money, sold it... bought a Turbo 6 weeks later, because I'm a f*****g idiot.

I wanna get an FC12 early next year, coz I'm fairly sure I wanna try and move to the Axe III for my band. But we'll see. Me and modelling work really well together in studio environments.... not so much in a rehearsal or live performance one..... but I'm game.

This could be placebo as fuck; but I want an FM3 with FM9 input impedance and secret sauce.

 

[Orvillain]

This could be placebo as f**k; but I want an FM3 with FM9 input impedance and secret sauce.

For fuzzes and such???

 

[JiveTurkey]

For fuzzes and such???

It's not even that. There was a little more immediacy of the FM9 vs. the FM3. Again; could be my FOMO mind playing tricks on me.

 

[metropolis_4]

This could be placebo as f**k; but I want an FM3 with FM9 input impedance and secret sauce.

I don’t know, tweaking input impedance is what made me do a 180 on Helix amps. I’ve held off on the FM3 since then because I’m not sure I’d want a modeler without variable input impedance anymore