What's preventing you from getting a Helix Stadium?

[Lysander]

One thing no-one else has though is the modifier system in Fractal land. I wish for something in Line6 land that enables those kinda soundscape possibilities in whatever form Line6 cooks up. That's one thing I do find lacking today in the Stadium.

I've been salivating over flux in the HX One ever since i heard about it. Really hope they bring that feature to Helix soon.

 

[PorcinePicker]

Subsequently, we have to get over the mistaken assumption that "old" models are outdated or no longer usable. 90 percent of the FAS Originals are from the AX8/II-era and they kick absolute ass even now in 2026. Lots of older Helix models still rock as well.

You're not wrong. Great music was recorded with the POD 2.0, and I'm not gonna stop listening to it because there are better amp sims now.

On to the topic at hand, it appears to be a difference in methodology. FAS improves the underlying engine, then tweaks various internal parameters, validating against the real hardware. It's a continuous process, with almost imperceptible changes that add up over time. To pick some random numbers, if you compare version 500 to 501.1, you won't hear much, but if you compare 490 to 501.1, it slaps you in the face.

Line 6 seems to work on individual new models using their current best practices, but there's not as much steady trickle down benefit to the ecosystem. Apparently sometimes there is, but they keep it under their hats.

Me, I prefer the iterative approach to the "latest thing" approach.

 

[king_wombat]

Much prefer the fractal effects to the line 6. Found I was always wanting to tweak,rather than set and forget which I can do with fractal.

Plus the fm9 Amps sound glorious, much preferred to og line 6, boss, hot one , and tonex pedals I have owned. If line 6 improved their effects quality to fractal, and the new amp models do end up being as good then would get one, as I do find the line 6 ui nicer to use.

 

[timbuck3]

I hate to say this, but I was expecting a new market leader... and it hasn´t been so. At least, not currently.

I feel similar to when TMP appeared with its almost 2k price.

Now, it´s L6 who goes over 2k, but with a device that isn´t the best out there... neither in tones nor reliablility, and with still missing features.

I´m not in the market for another multifx, but if I was, I wouldn´t remotely choose the Stadium in this moment.

First reason: price.

Second: still no capturing feature.

Third: the effects are not my cup of tea.

Fourth: the amps are not on par with the best (which for me are QC and FAS).

What I love of the Stadium is all the innovtion and potential it has. I owned a Helix LT and loved the UI and functionality. And L6 are a really friendly and responsive company, usually updating their devices quite frequently and for a long time. So I´m sure it will be up there with the top dogs, but I guess it still needs a couple years.

It’s basically a helix with touchscreen. It’s more or less a bridge product to the new named flagship likely coming in way less then 10 yrs. But the stadium is that midfle stepping stone to capture current helix owners and future nd the next diff named flagship

 

[AlbertA]

It’s basically a helix with touchscreen. It’s more or less a bridge product to the new named flagship likely coming in way less then 10 yrs. But the stadium is that midfle stepping stone to capture current helix owners and future nd the next diff named flagship

 

[Orvillain]

It’s basically a helix with touchscreen. It’s more or less a bridge product to the new named flagship likely coming in way less then 10 yrs. But the stadium is that midfle stepping stone to capture current helix owners and future nd the next diff named flagship

Oh shush you.

 

[GTR37]

It’s basically a helix with touchscreen. It’s more or less a bridge product to the new named flagship likely coming in way less then 10 yrs. But the stadium is that midfle stepping stone to capture current helix owners and future nd the next diff named flagship

 

[BenIfin]

It’s basically a helix with touchscreen. It’s more or less a bridge product to the new named flagship likely coming in way less then 10 yrs. But the stadium is that midfle stepping stone to capture current helix owners and future nd the next diff named flagship

You are actually kidding ... right ?

 

[sashimi]

It’s basically a helix with touchscreen. It’s more or less a bridge product to the new named flagship likely coming in way less then 10 yrs. But the stadium is that midfle stepping stone to capture current helix owners and future nd the next diff named flagship

A hot tub is a midlife stepping stone buddy

 

[OneEng]

Honestly I just feel like the market is over saturated. As so many people have gone digital in the last decade to me there’s only two real reasons to buy something new:

1. I need to solve a specific problem

2. I’m bored and want to buy something new

Financially I’m tapped out so boredom can’t drive big purchases for me anymore. Even then I’m really feeling burned out on the constant churn of new gear and YouTube ads and everything.

Stadium doesn’t really solve any problems for me so it won’t drive a buying decision. It looks cool but I have two flagship modelers already not to mention boxes full of pedals and other gear.

Maybe it’s projecting my burnout but I really wonder if new gear in general will not be selling well. There was so much gear purchased since 2020 that flooded the used market and I bet a lot of that was bought on credit that’s piling up.

I think this really is the main reason I haven't run right out and bought a Stadium XL. I really don't have "a problem". My Kemper rig is getting the job done and sounds great in the mix out front.

While I am still pissed off at Kemper (for a variety of reasons), the damn thing is getting the job done. I lug it EVERY week. I tweak in new songs monthly. It just gets the job done.

I love many of the ideas being introduced in the Stadium. As soon as one of my guitar player friends buy one, I am definitely going to be borrowing it for a week to see what I am missing out on, but at the end of the day, I can either take me and my wife on a vacation, or buy a new toy ..... that I don't have a legitimate NEED for (just severe GAS!).

Then I really have to ask myself, do I really want to go through EVERY song we do and make sure I have the sounds tweaked in so it works well in the mix? No matter how good Stadium is, that would be months in the tweaking for sure IME.

 

[timbuck3]

Yeah honestly I’m a bit confused on the Agoura amps. If they are a big step forward why were there so few at launch? If they’re not a big step forward, why invest in the Stadium?

I don’t think it’s necessarily a line 6 problem either, I think it’s a challenge every manufacturer will face. How do you differentiate when there’s so many choices and you already have very mature products that are readily available at much lower prices, especially in a down economy?

From that standpoint it’s not surprising to see Fractal jumping into different hardware configs of existing platforms and then into software plugins.

Again read my post above. It’s a helix with touchscreen. At price.

I've said before that the battle for next gen is almost entirely about usability improvements big and small. Past that, it starts to require actual innovation.

• The Fender TMP is a prime example of a product that on paper does a lot right, but doesn't really offer its own angle that would make it preferable to the others.
• Fractal is trusted for sound quality, but disliked for usability. A really easy to use next gen flagship is going to be great even if nothing else were to change. AM4 is a step in the right direction for both usability and form factor.
• Line6 is well liked as the good all-rounder. Helix Stadium improves the usability, but so far not that much else. Future is trustworthy progress, but unknown.
• QC has lost a lot of its initial selling points. Touchscreens are found on many other devices, Helix UI has been copied by others as well, and modeling + captures is not unique anymore. It's only advantages now are the ability to run multiple captures at once, and the very compact QC Mini form factor. Whether they can turn their slow progress into something that separates them from the pack remains to be seen.
• Kemper is dead in the water with nothing to show for MK2. Improved profiling is unlikely to change much when everything else is over a decade old.
• Boss doesn't have a new flagship to offer and is only competing in the lower price brackets and still leading the modeling combo market.
• Hotone has a good cheaper product, but that's still what it is. It doesn't compete with the top dogs, but it's pretty good anyway.
• IK Tonex One is the king of cheap captures in a small box, but that's about it. A bigger modeler that combines their plugin fx with Tonex amps would be interesting, but probably not "game changing".
• Universal Audio has been pretty quiet on the hardware front with no new pedals so far. Paradise Studio is a nice plugin and maybe they will put more focus on that going forward if the UAFX pedals aren't selling as well as they'd like.
• Blackstar tries to get in the game, but is a budget contender at best, with a poor reputation for support.
• BluGuitar Amp X is innovative with its analog modeling, but at the same time possibly too dated in usability to find huge success.

It seems like anyone's game to win at this point.

many expected a new named flagship with the new amp models all inside and new effects as well at 2200$
Not the helix models and effects with slow trickle of new tech in the unit. Hence I guess the helix name vs. A new name

 

[ChordInversion]

That's it. And I don't doubt for a second that Cliff meant it as he does enginewide tweaks all of the time, but it's undeniable that Fractal is held to a different standard.

You're right, but I will note that the engine wide improvements are a real plus that justify that different standard to at least some degree. Fractal doesn't have to come up with all new amps with a new generation precisely because of that approach.

 

[OneEng]

You're right, but I will note that the engine wide improvements are a real plus that justify that different standard to at least some degree. Fractal doesn't have to come up with all new amps with a new generation precisely because of that approach.

Possibly true, but it ..... kinda did with Axe III Fx vs II.

When I bought my Kemper, it was head to head with the Axe II Fx where I considered the Kemper to be superior (we are talking a couple of days with friends doing a shootout). A single afternoon a few years later with the Axe III Fx, and even right out the gate, I felt it was fairly even with Fractal taking the lead in EFX due to the new models and new efx in the Axe III.

I agree with others here that things have gotten SO good that it is now quite difficult to have a groundbreaking new modeler based on sound quality. I would go so far to say that those days are over forever.

Stadium's real chance to shine IMO is in workflow. Fractal IMO is still cumbersome to get a specific tone you want out of it compared to Helix (and Kemper IMO). Stadium has the hardware to support more substantial efx than Helix original ever could (this is especially true for reverbs IMO). I would have at least added better delay and reverb engines at release.

Still, the thing is beautiful. The workflow and GUI are groundbreaking. I also think that as many here have said, we are all just hoping to be "wow"ed and that is getting increasingly difficult to do .

 

[timbuck3]

Possibly true, but it ..... kinda did with Axe III Fx vs II.

When I bought my Kemper, it was head to head with the Axe II Fx where I considered the Kemper to be superior (we are talking a couple of days with friends doing a shootout). A single afternoon a few years later with the Axe III Fx, and even right out the gate, I felt it was fairly even with Fractal taking the lead in EFX due to the new models and new efx in the Axe III.

I agree with others here that things have gotten SO good that it is now quite difficult to have a groundbreaking new modeler based on sound quality. I would go so far to say that those days are over forever.

Stadium's real chance to shine IMO is in workflow. Fractal IMO is still cumbersome to get a specific tone you want out of it compared to Helix (and Kemper IMO). Stadium has the hardware to support more substantial efx than Helix original ever could (this is especially true for reverbs IMO). I would have at least added better delay and reverb engines at release.

Still, the thing is beautiful. The workflow and GUI are groundbreaking. I also think that as many here have said, we are all just hoping to be "wow"ed and that is getting increasingly difficult to do .

The gui is excellent for sure. As it should be on the newest flagship released at 2200$ … the cool workflow”items” the touchscreen can do and maybe will do is awesome and manufacturers tend to leapfrog over each other in competition of releases and this is to the players advantage.

 

[mikah912]

You're right, but I will note that the engine wide improvements are a real plus that justify that different standard to at least some degree. Fractal doesn't have to come up with all new amps with a new generation precisely because of that approach.

Enginewide improvements have also taken place across the life of Helix to the point where they stated confidently before the Stadium announcement that the 3.8 firmware was equivalent to a Helix 2.5 or 3 or whatever already.

But as I've said, that claim gets nothing but disbelief and scrutiny, while any improvement or engine tweak listed in a Fractal release note is taken at face value and raved about. Whatevs.

I only care that it met my personal standard for great tone, and the OG Helix did that long ago. I bought Stadium XL on launch week because I wanted to enjoy all the years of runway it'll have going forward.

Like others have said.....people will reevaluate when Proxy is running at full speed and they drop new Gen of delays and/or reverbs.

And I'll enjoy that too.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

The gui is excellent for sure. As it should be on the newest hotub released at 2200$ … the cool workflow”items” the touchscreen can do and maybe will do is awesome and manufacturers tend to leapfrog over each other in competition of releases and this is to the players advantage.

ftfy, but it still makes no sense

 

[GurthPeedler]

This may have already been said, but because it doesn't sound better than the Line 6 Helix, at least not enough to justify the price.

 

[dean701]

This may have already been said, but because it doesn't sound better than the Line 6 Helix, at least not enough to justify the price.

I'm scratching my head about that one.
-most users here have reported that Agora does sound better (dynamics and feel included)
-it has a ton of extra features (capturing, showcase, de-stemming, automation, wi-fi
-an additional gpu since last round

If I compare pound for pound, it has a lot more going on than the AXE3 at the same price point.

 

[GurthPeedler]

I'm scratching my head about that one.
-most users here have reported that Agora does sound better
-it has a ton of extra features (capturing, showcase, de-stemming, automation, wi-fi
-an additional gpu since last round

If I compare pound for pound, it has a lot more going on than the AXE3 at the same price point.

Yeah sorry, that was kind of a "drive by" comment I should've elaborated on. Disregarding the new features, the vast majority of which I'm simply not going to ever personally use, in terms of the amp tones themselves I did not feel that the tone had changed enough to justify the price. I would liken it to my experience owning an Axe-FX 2 when the 3 came out; although the latter was capable of far more, it would be a while until the tonal gap widened. Now they're miles apart.

But that all being said, there's a certain Line 6 "flavor" that the previous units had in their high end that I was never a fan of. I was hoping that the Stadium would be a more radical shift in modeling, but to my ears, it was still a very similar tone.

I'd be open to hearing some better comparisons if you have any videos or audio samples between the two you'd recommend?

 

[dean701]

Yeah sorry, that was kind of a "drive by" comment I should've elaborated on. Disregarding the new features, the vast majority of which I'm simply not going to ever personally use, in terms of the amp tones themselves I did not feel that the tone had changed enough to justify the price. I would liken it to my experience owning an Axe-FX 2 when the 3 came out; although the latter was capable of far more, it would be a while until the tonal gap widened. Now they're miles apart.

But that all being said, there's a certain Line 6 "flavor" that the previous units had in their high end that I was never a fan of. I was hoping that the Stadium would be a more radical shift in modeling, but to my ears, it was still a very similar tone.

I'd be open to hearing some better comparisons if you have any videos or audio samples between the two you'd recommend?

I don't own the Stadium yet but I'm sure there are a few individuals here that can chime in.

I can say though, through either Mirrorprofiles clips with the OG Helix or many of Sonic Drive Studio's historical comparison videos of Fractal vs real vs the OG Helix, the sound wasn't that dissimilar with the amp. Therefore, there is only so much better/closer to the real amp that it can get.

Here's an oldie.