What's preventing you from getting a Helix Stadium (if you really want to buy it eventually)?

[mbenigni]

A few things also rub me the wrong way: I have zero use for Showcase, I think the touchscreen takes up too much real estate (making the unit unnecessarily huge)

These two observations side-by-side just make me think that the Stadium is the wrong product for you - irrespective of whether that makes it a "good" product or a "bad" one. Some folks will love working with a big touchscreen and some will say, "I'm just here to play my guitar; what's the point?" The latter should probably buy a different modeler.

It's like buying a sports car and complaining the seats are too snug, or buying a minivan and complaining it's a PITA to park. You need to buy what you want; doesn't mean the other isn't fine as is.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Can't speak for "people", but I'm saying it because there's no rationale for having different quality levels inside a brand new flagship product. If something makes the cut as being worthy of inclusion, don't put a label on it implying "this is crappy". If you want a lighter CPU version of it, put a switch for that on the model/effect itself.

This suggests that the old FX sound bad in some way. Doesn’t make any sense to leave out stuff you don’t need to especially if you’re trying to get people to upgrade from a HX device.

 

[JiveTurkey]

This suggests that the old FX sound bad in some way. Doesn’t make any sense to leave out stuff you don’t need to especially if you’re trying to get people to upgrade from a HX device.

It all comes down to the perception by people that the older FX are of inferior quality. Which is also up to interpretation of the end user, unfortunately.

 

[Jarick]

Going back to the point from many pages ago, is anyone touring with Stadium?

The only person I've seen who is actually using it is the guitarist from Natalie Imbruglia, which was an odd random YT recommendation.

Rhett Shull was planning to use it on tour but bailed due to bugs and issues in favor of the QC. And now he's building a rig around the Axe FX 3 and real amps.

 

[ian_dissonance]

It all comes down to the perception by people that the older FX are of inferior quality. Which is also up to interpretation of the end user, unfortunately.

That’s a really dumb perception.

 

[Mooselake]

... and some will say, "I'm just here to play my guitar; what's the point?" The latter should probably buy a different modeler.

That's me, and basically why I bought a Stadium product. Eventually I might have some use for showcase. Proxy less likely (I don't have have much to try to capture, and don't really have a setup conducive for the process as I understand it. That's not to say that if Line 6 included some of their clones or if I wind up with some 3rd party ones, I won't check them out and perhaps use them. I went with Stadium because it's a familiar ecosystem and I (correctly) assumed that Showcase Focus View would make it much more efficient to scratch pad enjoyable patches. I also assumed (again, correctly) based on some Youtube vids (I know, I know) that I would enjoy the Agoura amps. In both cases Stadium has exceeded expectations.

You're right though, the Stadium isn't going to be perfect for everyone. I guess the OP sort of asked for it, but I would devote little effort to critiquing a product I don't want. If other folks are happy with something, it's much easier to just let them be. QC never seriously interested me, and I don't feel like I have so much spare time I can spend some in QC threads arguing why it's not good enough for me.

 

[PorcinePicker]

That’s a really dumb perception.

I agree. So why feed it and make the organization and use of the device more confusing?

 

[JiveTurkey]

These two observations side-by-side just make me think that the Stadium is the wrong product for you - irrespective of whether that makes it a "good" product or a "bad" one. Some folks will love working with a big touchscreen and some will say, "I'm just here to play my guitar; what's the point?" The latter should probably buy a different modeler.

It's like buying a sports car and complaining the seats are too snug, or buying a minivan and complaining it's a PITA to park. You need to buy what you want; doesn't mean the other isn't fine as is.

I feel like the above post is where I am falling. As far as the bigger Stadiums that are currently available-ish? The only thing on Mikah's list that moved the needle for me in reality was consolidated channels. I don't care about factory presets, clips, or additional descriptors on amps/fx I am never going to use. The "weeeeee I have a killer touchscreen" factor is great. If I can get that on a Stomp; I'm all about it.

 

[JiveTurkey]

That’s a really dumb perception.

Not necessarily disagreeing with this. But you say that, you think that; but people are still having that thought process about it either way. It's super easy to blow off any of these things on some $200 Valeton turd. When you go up to the budgetary mountaintop; things become a lot more nitpicky.

 

[JiveTurkey]

We did watch a couple of episodes of South Side and had a good a laugh or 3

 

[EOengineer]

Coming back on topic, the question for me is :"What's preventing you from selling your Helix Stadium?"

Short answer: I’m giving the Stadium a fair chance, and I’m waiting for a few key things:

1. Agoura preamp models (still missing)
2. Better effects, especially reverbs and compression (to my ears, Fractal still sounds clearly better)
3. Stadium Native, ideally with a hardware-owner discount

1 and 3 are both top of list for me. I have a Mesa 2:90 that would pair incredibly well with the Agoura 2C+ preamp to create some kind of awesome Frankenstein hybrid 2C+ with as many channels as I want.

Stadium Native will also be essential for my recording workflow. If I’m not working with a real amp, I prefer tracking dry and using plugins over tracking the modeling hardware directly. You can do that via USB but I hate ramping back through the hardware.

Since getting the AM4, my Stadium has mostly been collecting dust. This isn’t a knock on Line 6, and I’m not claiming they can’t compete with Fractal. I genuinely don’t care about brands. I’m not being paid to be anyone’s ambassador. I’m simply enjoying the AM4 tone far more than the Stadium through a tube power amp + cab.

I had to throw my AM4 in a closet so that I’d use Stadium. The AM4 just happened to come out of the box with a bunch of my favorite amps and had the shiny new-to-me Fractal modeling so it wasn’t really a fair fight for Stadium.

What are you using for your tube power amp?

why do people keep saying this? More is more.

I sort of get it if we’re talking reproduction of high fidelity sounds, but let’s not pretend there aren’t A BILLION DL-4 pedals on boards out there rocking 25 year old algos.

My favorite verb in Stadium is still the particle verb which was legacy even on OG Helix. Some of the old stuff simply sounds great.

Going back to the point from many pages ago, is anyone touring with Stadium?

The only person I've seen who is actually using it is the guitarist from Natalie Imbruglia, which was an odd random YT recommendation.

Rhett Shull was planning to use it on tour but bailed due to bugs and issues in favor of the QC. And now he's building a rig around the Axe FX 3 and real amps.

I don’t think it’s particularly unusual for national touring acts to avoid complex digital gear that’s only been out for a couple months. I’d expect to see much wider adoption down the road a bit.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Agree to disagree? Or disagree to disagree? I think this is a little reductive.

The things Mikah is describing may not be "crucial" (what is?) and they may not be of any interest for "serious" players (pros/ semi-pros?), but they certainly add value. Anything that makes a device with this much content "self-documenting" (e.g. "I've never used this amp before, what can the Stadium itself tell me about it before I go running off to Google and break my stride?") is cool. (And fun! Let's not kid ourselves: regardless of price point, the vast majority of buyers, including myself, are buying because these things are fun.)

I miss my old Line 6 Pilot's Guides, and I'm very intrigued by Focus View, etc.

Let me clarify - all of these comments were specifically in the context of “but there wasn’t much improvement in sounds from II to III and people still bought it?!?”

If you own a Toyota Camry and someone shows you a Lexus (whatever a comparable but fancier Lexus sedan is), even if the Lexus is in budget a lot of folks will probably think "man, nice car!! But...I've only got 60k miles on this thing and it's pretty great."

If you own a Geo Tracker and someone shows you a Chevy Tahoe, and the Tahoe is in your budget...

Nothing in any of my posts has meant to belittle any of the improvements in Stadium. If anything, its meant to praise OG Helix and slag off the Axe Fx II.

 

[mikah912]

Going back to the point from many pages ago, is anyone touring with Stadium?

The only person I've seen who is actually using it is the guitarist from Natalie Imbruglia, which was an odd random YT recommendation.

Rhett Shull was planning to use it on tour but bailed due to bugs and issues in favor of the QC. And now he's building a rig around the Axe FX 3 and real amps.

I'm not "touring", but I am gigging mine almost every weekend. Mixture of recording and live performance.

But I'm not surprised. Touring pros aren't famous for jumping on new digital hardware the second it drops (unless they're being paid and given free units like Neural DSP did to "seed" the QC at the jump).

Given all of the variables of live shows and incessant shipping/travel, it's always "the devil you know".....

 

[ian_dissonance]

I agree. So why feed it and make the organization and use of the device more confusing?

That doesn’t make any sense. It’s dumb, so make sure the people being dumb feel better?

 

[Dez]

What the hell is a "banana stand gif"?

You know what, never mind.

There's always money in the banana stand.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

What the hell is a "banana stand gif"?

You know what, never mind.

 

[Chocol8]

I don’t think it’s particularly unusual for national touring acts to avoid complex digital gear that’s only been out for a couple months. I’d expect to see much wider adoption down the road a bit.

This is a big part of it. It's pretty unlikely any major act is going to grab something brand new and take it on the road a few weeks later. That would be considered insane by most.

Beyond that though, I think the name is a bit off. I see showcase, the touch screen and other features of Stadium appealing more to smaller local and touring acts. The guys who don't have techs on staff traveling with them. They are also going to want to flesh things out before going on the road, but they are also smaller less known acts so the Internet masses are never going to be aware of how many are and are not using Stadium. I would expect by summer there will be a number of them quietly on the road and in use by local and regional acts.

 

[mikah912]

Coming back on topic, the question for me is :"What's preventing you from selling your Helix Stadium?"

Short answer: I’m giving the Stadium a fair chance, and I’m waiting for a few key things:

1. Agoura preamp models (still missing)
2. Better effects, especially reverbs and compression (to my ears, Fractal still sounds clearly better)
3. Stadium Native, ideally with a hardware-owner discount

Since getting the AM4, my Stadium has mostly been collecting dust. This isn’t a knock on Line 6, and I’m not claiming they can’t compete with Fractal. I genuinely don’t care about brands. I’m not being paid to be anyone’s ambassador. I’m simply enjoying the AM4 tone far more than the Stadium through a tube power amp + cab.

The AM4 is also easy to use—about as straightforward as the Stadium. Sure, it could benefit from a touchscreen and a few quality-of-life features (like copying scenes or blocks directly on the unit without the editor). But the basics are handled better in some ways: a CPU meter and an always-visible tuner are actually useful—unlike a clock (thanks, but I already have a watch).

At this point, my decision is basically damage control. If Line 6 improves the Stadium—better FX, Agoura preamps, and solid reliability then I might keep it long enough to pick up a discounted Stadium Native. If not, I’ll likely sell it (probably at a loss).

A few things also rub me the wrong way: I have zero use for Showcase, I think the touchscreen takes up too much real estate (making the unit unnecessarily huge), and I absolutely hate the Wi-Fi-required connection to use the editor (honestly, one of the worst ideas they’ve had). DSP headroom is another concern—not right now, but if Line 6 brings in more resource-heavy Agoura tech across the board, it could become a real limitation.

Finally, it’s hard to ignore the pricing. Line 6 had some nerve launching a new “flagship” at $2,200 where, at release, the only headline difference felt like “16 new Agoura amp models.” That’s obviously an oversimplification, but it’s genuinely how the value proposition has landed for me in real-world use, as I came back to using my favorites OG Mark IV and Badonk models for heavy tones.

I can totally understand AM4 supplanting Stadium usage.

I was just telling JT or someone else, my last couple of weekends of gigs with a synthrock/electrorock project I'd been working with...I ended up just grabbing my super thin laptop, my compact Presonus audio interface and throwing them in a small backpack. Ran good ole' "regular" Helix Native for both sessions.

The convenience of straightforward grab-n-go rigs that you already know and are easy to dial in mean something, I'm not always going to unplug my Stadium, throw it in the official Line 6 carrying sleeve (I can't really view that thing as a "bag". It's a sleeve, man) and lug that everywhere. If I had an AM4, I'd probably have grabbed it for those specific sessions too.

That being said, I scratch my head a bit at the things that "rub you the wrong way". Not to argue against any of them, but wasn't each and every one a known quality months before you had a chance to plunk down the cash? You knew you would have no use for showcase on June 11, and the size of the touchscreen relative to the unit was known then too.

Most bizarrely, you ding Line 6 for the pricing relative to the old & new launch content when that was made clear from the jump. Or that the 16 guitar amps they chose to launch with didn't keep you from using HX models you loved?

Why would they when the HX equivalents of those 16 amps didn't either?!? It just reads like you bought the Stadium XL in spite of a bunch of reservations and hoped the honeymoon period would make you forget about all of that.

 

[OneEng]

Brother, if someone saying anything less than complimentary about Line 6 or Stadium raised my blood pressure even an iota, this forum would've sent me into the great big Stadium in the sky a long time ago.

And to be clear, I 9 million percent agree that Kemper's reverbs and delays were incredible when I owned it and also way more varied than even the current lineup of such in Stadium.

It's just.....that's about the only thing I miss about it. And so yeah, I consider Stadium to be a considerable step up in pretty much every other aspect than reverbs and delays. But it's still a great piece of kit, and I could gig one if I had to, no problem.

I'm going to have to look around and find one of my many band friends to see if any of them have a Stadium and have another amp shoot out party at my house like I did when the Axe III Fx first came out (despite what many are saying here, the Axe III Fx did quite well even at introduction in that shoot out). I'd really like to have a whole week with it to see how hard it would be to make a change in the future from my Kemper rig.

Since getting the AM4, my Stadium has mostly been collecting dust.

I would argue that if a $700 pedal can put a $2200 pedal in the closet to "collect dust", the $2200 pedal has some improving to do. On the flip side, I just think the AM4 really hit a GREAT balance of capability and price. The product management team at Fractal really did a good job IMO.

Finally, it’s hard to ignore the pricing. Line 6 had some nerve launching a new “flagship” at $2,200 where, at release, the only headline difference felt like “16 new Agoura amp models.” That’s obviously an oversimplification, but it’s genuinely how the value proposition has landed for me in real-world use, as I came back to using my favorites OG Mark IV and Badonk models for heavy tones.

I think that this will not be a unique view and many others will feel the same way. As others point out though, it will get better.

I had to throw my AM4 in a closet so that I’d use Stadium. The AM4 just happened to come out of the box with a bunch of my favorite amps and had the shiny new-to-me Fractal modeling so it wasn’t really a fair fight for Stadium.

Seems perfectly fair to me. Why isn't it fair?

Given all of the variables of live shows and incessant shipping/travel, it's always "the devil you know".....

... and that's really the biggest reason I have kept hold of my Kemper MK1. It's getting the job done really well. While a shiny new Stadium might make ME happier, I doubt the audience would hear any difference at all through the FOH PA. Of course, after I manage my shoot-out party and get some time on the Stadium, I might feel differently (GAS has a funny way of bending your mind and will ).

 

[mikah912]

I would argue that if a $700 pedal can put a $2200 pedal in the closet to "collect dust", the $2200 pedal has some improving to do. On the flip side, I just think the AM4 really hit a GREAT balance of capability and price. The product management team at Fractal really did a good job IMO.

To that point, the $700 AM4 would make a $2500 Axe-FX III also collect dust in my closet (if I owned one, that is). That's not really a ding on the larger unit just because of the price gap. For probably 90 percent of gigging/recording needs, An Axe-FX III is not nearly four times better-suited than an AM4.

The AM4 is an incredible balance of capability and price, and I'm absolutely sure it peeled off some Stadium (and QC. and ToneMaster Pro. And Kemper....) sales. If a guitarist is looking for a new digital rig in 2025/2026, they would have to have some specific use cases/capabilities they want to not put an AM4 near the top of their list.