What do you think of the new TONEX Mesa Amps?

[MirrorProfiles]

Just for fun as I was curious if there was any magic in the new official ToneX Recto's.

Not saying these sound identical, BUT one of these is one of the models from the new ToneX Mesa pack of their reference Dual Rectifier. The other is Helix's lowly old 3 channel model.

 

[SKU]

Just for fun as I was curious if there was any magic in the new official ToneX Recto's.

Not saying these sound identical, BUT one of these is one of the models from the new ToneX Mesa pack of their reference Dual Rectifier. The other is Helix's lowly old 3 channel model.

Is A the tonex?!

 

[Elf]

Just for fun as I was curious if there was any magic in the new official ToneX Recto's.

Not saying these sound identical, BUT one of these is one of the models from the new ToneX Mesa pack of their reference Dual Rectifier. The other is Helix's lowly old 3 channel model.

Both sound great! This just confirms that the only thing I need I already have it!!! HX Stomp!!!

What IRs did you use?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

What IRs did you use?

Just one of my plain old Mesa Oversized IR’s, 57

 

[BenIfin]

In my experience the tonestack on the Tonex works more like you would expect compared to the eq like tonestack on the Kemper for example. It won't affect the sound like on the specific amp you captured but it is pretty amp like.

And for the record ...... this is also %100 exactly and precisely how the Tone Stack in NAM works.

The only product on the market that incorporates the real modelled gain and tone stack of the Amp being profiled is KPA LP's.

AI static capturing ... be it Tonex or NAM or one of the other smaller one-man operations .... is a *long* way behind this.

Ben

 

[MirrorProfiles]

And for the record ...... this is also %100 exactly and precisely how the Tone Stack in NAM works.

The only product on the market that incorporates the real modelled gain and tone stack of the Amp being profiled is KPA LP's.

AI static capturing ... be it Tonex or NAM or one of the other smaller one-man operations .... is a *long* way behind this.

Ben

has anyone actually done a good demonstration of Kemper’s Liquid profiles showing that adjusting the LP tone stack gives the same result as adjusting the real amp controls?

Because it’s all well and good having the tone stacks in theory, but if they don’t sound accurate then who cares what topology it is. If you get to the point that you want to dial the amps in from scratch, you may as well just use a Helix/Fractal/QC.

The other limiting factor is Kemper only has a handful of tonestacks, and mostly of amps that are commonly found in modellers. The appeal of capturing is often to capture an amp that isn’t commonly modelled or available. At which point, you won’t have an accurate tonestack to use for a LP.

I didn’t spend a great deal of time with Liquid Profiles but when I tried them I was pretty underwhelmed. At best it felt like a novelty, but maybe for people who are performing live and like to make small tweaks it might be useful. Didn’t feel like a big step forward at all to me.

 

[SKU]

And for the record ...... this is also %100 exactly and precisely how the Tone Stack in NAM works.

The only product on the market that incorporates the real modelled gain and tone stack of the Amp being profiled is KPA LP's.

AI static capturing ... be it Tonex or NAM or one of the other smaller one-man operations .... is a *long* way behind this.

Ben

Sold my Kemper before LP released and while I'd like to test it my intuition tells me that calling it "real" is too much but I think it does a better job for sure compared to Tonex and NAM. Also if I'm not mistaken there were some news about NAM implementing something similar?

IMO tools like Kemper and Tonex were designed to take your own amps with your own settings on the road without having to carry your heavy amps and cabs all over the place but the idea got lost along the way thanks to GAS and shops selling profiles.
Well .. maybe not Tonex but Kemper was released in a different environment compared to today's.

 

[riffy]

Just for fun as I was curious if there was any magic in the new official ToneX Recto's.

Not saying these sound identical, BUT one of these is one of the models from the new ToneX Mesa pack of their reference Dual Rectifier. The other is Helix's lowly old 3 channel model.

Not a hill of beans worth of difference to my ears in that tune!

 

[Orvillain]

has anyone actually done a good demonstration of Kemper’s Liquid profiles showing that adjusting the LP tone stack gives the same result as adjusting the real amp controls?

In short, no. Not really.

 

[BenIfin]

has anyone actually done a good demonstration of Kemper’s Liquid profiles showing that adjusting the LP tone stack gives the same result as adjusting the real amp controls?

Because it’s all well and good having the tone stacks in theory, but if they don’t sound accurate then who cares what topology it is. If you get to the point that you want to dial the amps in from scratch, you may as well just use a Helix/Fractal/QC.

The other limiting factor is Kemper only has a handful of tonestacks, and mostly of amps that are commonly found in modellers. The appeal of capturing is often to capture an amp that isn’t commonly modelled or available. At which point, you won’t have an accurate tonestack to use for a LP.

I didn’t spend a great deal of time with Liquid Profiles but when I tried them I was pretty underwhelmed. At best it felt like a novelty, but maybe for people who are performing live and like to make small tweaks it might be useful. Didn’t feel like a big step forward at all to me.

In short, no. Not really.

No. Or at least no-one that I am aware of.

F.w.i.w ..... I have done extensive A/B testing with many Liquid Profiles - from the official packs - and alternated settings comparing the LP using the correct Amp Gain/EQ model stack -vs- the LP using the old-traditional Generic Kemper model stack.

I have tested the settings over 4 ranges .... identical for each ... everything on 9.00am .... everything on 12.00 .... everything on 3.00pm ... and everything on Full.

I have previously posted the differences in a few different threads hear with audio examples of each.

All I can say is that:-

=> as I no longer own any tube Amps I cannot comment to what extent it is 1:1 compared to the real Amp

=> as you start approaching the "everything on 12.00" test and then everything beyond ..... the Generic Stack gets catastrophically bad very quickly ... whereas the LP using the "amp correct stack" remains in-tact all the way in an extremely Amp like manner .... as I have said before ... to call the difference "night and day" is an insult to the "night and day" descriptor.

Is it 1:1 "spot on" to the real amp at such settings .... I have absolutely no idea.

Does tweaking a LP with a correct amp stack "feel" and "respond" as if you are using a real amp .... absolutely yes.

Some people have said that LP's sound no different to Generic Profiles but have missed 3 critical points

-> if you do a LP with the correct Amp stack and then the exact same profile with the Generic Stack and leave all the controls unchanged on each and compare them ..... they do and are meant to sound identical ..... CK has gone out of his way to say this several times ... he did this by design to give maximum flexibility to go either way if wanted.

-> it is only once you start to move and tweak the LP controls with the correct amp stack that the LP will "engage" ... again ... CK has gone out of his way to say this several times .... again by deliberate design

-> very few if any people have A/B tested the same LP using the amp correct stack -vs the same profile using the Generic stack .... and posted the audio results to hear ..... I seem to be one of the very few ...... but if anyone takes the time to do this ... and it is very easy and quick to do .... it would literally be irrational and dishonest of them to say anything other than that the difference in sound and tweak-ability is more amp-like and more amp -authentic by orders or magnitude.

All the best,
Ben

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Is it 1:1 "spot on" to the real amp at such settings .... I have absolutely no idea.

Hmm. IMO it’s setting quite a low bar to accept Kemper’s profiling as an accurate starting point, and then again accepting Kemper’s LP tech to be accurate when applied to that starting point to give good results.

IF we use an example tone where the source sounds fairly close, then we’d need audio proof of it sounding just as close when changing the eq settings drastically. I haven’t heard any clips that demonstrate it well yet - until I hear proof of how well it works, I don’t really buy into the claims.

If you want an accurate snapshot, ToneX/NAM/Tonocracy do that. If you want to adjust controls and have an accurate behaviour all the time, Helix/Fractal/QC do that.

It’s a nice feature to have, but I wouldn’t say it gives any more accuracy. It’s just a different kind of inaccurate to before.

Anyway, back on topic

 

[BenIfin]

(1) If we use an example tone where the source sounds fairly close, then we’d need audio proof of it sounding just as close when changing the eq settings drastically. I haven’t heard any clips that demonstrate it well yet - until I hear proof of how well it works, I don’t really buy into the claims.

(2) Anyway, back on topic

^^ (1) Just to be clear .... I agree. I'm not aware of *any* clips that demonstrate how good or bad at 1:1 same settings LP vs the real amp is. My previously posted clips only demonstrate the Generic KPA Stack -vs- the "correct stack" on the tweak-ability over various different same settings on the same profile for each - in that respect ... the "amp-like" tweak-ability of the "correct stack" LP is orders of magnitude more "authentic" ... but again ... I have no idea how close "authentic" is to "perfect" ..... but personally though... I couldn't give a flying f%ck about "perfect" ... I just want what sounds great to me / my ears. If my goal was "perfection" I'd still be using my Matchless DC 30 Ceriatone clone and my Alnico / Ceramic combo 2x12 semi-open-back Cab ..... but my neck and back wont "agree" with me :)

^^ (2) .... yep ... back to the OP :) ..... and on that note ..... the more I think about what you get, how it was done, by whom, where and what gear was used, how long it took etc..... ...... I'm thinking if you are a "Mesa" fan/user .... its actually a pretty cheap deal.

Ben

 

[James Freeman]

 

[BenIfin]

Just went live on YouTube a few minutes ago:-

Major Music Companies Line 6, Fractal, Kemper and Boss Announce Full Native NAM Support

 

[2dor]

Also if I'm not mistaken there were some news about NAM implementing something similar?

Somewhat, yes. There was a pull request on GitHub recently that allowed tweaking the tonestack frequency for each of the Bass, Middle and Treble dials.

 

[Iron1]

$100 means Im out without even listening or considering it.

Betamonkey offers drum loop packs, recorded by actual pro drummers on pro kits, with each pack containing well over 1000 useful samples, for $29. Often on bogo deals.

Is it apples to oranges? Maybe, but it’s also far more useful get for far less give.

 

[Deadpan]

$100 means Im out without even listening or considering it.

Betamonkey offers drum loop packs, recorded by actual pro drummers on pro kits, with each pack containing well over 1000 useful samples, for $29. Often on bogo deals.

Is it apples to oranges? Maybe, but it’s also far more useful get for far less give.

Understand where you are coming from.

I think IK presumes most will use points to get 30% off.

Note, each capture takes 20 minutes or more to make. Very time consuming.

 

[Orvillain]

I think the price is fair. This race to the bottom where everything needs to be throw away beer money, or else I'm not buying!!!

...ehhhhh... sack that. It is a lot of work to make these things. Companies and thus individuals who work for them - often people who are specialists in their field - deserve to be compensated.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

There's also the argument that not everyone has to buy it. If you don't think its good value, use something else. Stuff takes time and effort to make and we can be made to feel that we HAVE to buy everything and anything. If its "too expensive" you don't want or need it badly enough, and thats fine.

 

[2dor]

There's also the argument that not everyone has to buy it. If you don't think its good value, use something else. Stuff takes time and effort to make and we can be made to feel that we HAVE to buy everything and anything. If its "too expensive" you don't want or need it badly enough, and thats fine.

True. That said, stuff like this makes products like the NDSP Mesa IIC+/IIC++ look very attractive (which I've said time & again) for what they offer.