What Are You Working On Right Now?
- Thread starter Jarick
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Chicken pickin' is the next thing I'm throwing myself into. I absolutely love the sound of it and there's so much ground to cover there, creatively and in learning existing music I never had the balls to attempt before 'cuz I can't chicken pick!
Sascha Franck
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For me, apart from a bit of chicken picking, the main things I learned from doing a bit of country stuff are:
- Hybrid picking. Sure, can do this within other styles, but chicken picking lends to it.
- Bending in general, including faux slide playing, using both bends and the whammy bar (fwiw, Lukather is incredibly good at fake-sliding with the whammy). When you dive into that just a tad deeper, you'll find yourself bending each string with each finger in each position all of a sudden. Sometimes quite a painful thing (for instance: your index finger has zero supporting fingers behind it, turning bends into an exercise in "oooouch-ohhh-grrrrr!").
Fwiw, I played 11-49s for over a decade on Fender scaled guitars /w floating vibratos. Turns any kind of country bending really into some sort of, shall we say, "interesting" experience. Not only does it require *way* more finger power compared to doing things on, say, a fixed bridge Tele with 09s (which seems to be a pretty common gauge among the most bending folks), if you want to do double bends (or rather bend one note while holding further notes on the other strings), you will have to compensate to get it done properly because of the free floating vibrato (which is why I often "mask" these things by using the whammy bar as well).
I'm now back at 10s with on my vibrato guitars, helps quite a bit.
And now:
- *The* biggest thing: deeper harmony understanding, or rather: deeper skills when moving around in harmonies. Yes, for real, even if country music often appears as seemingly simple when it comes to harmonic means.
From my experience, many people never thought about that aspect, so let me try my best to explain the hows-and-whys (no idea whether some of you fine folks are interested in my findings, but hey, I'll try anyway...).
At one point in time, I started noticing how many country player were rather fluent in other styles as well (mainly when it comes to some sort of jazzier harmonics), especially when improvising. I've once been at a session where there's also been one of the (very few, they're a super rare breed over here) most proficient pedal steel players in mainland Europe (Nils Tuxen from Denmark). Now, all of a sudden they started jamming some funky fusion kinda stuff and my jaw simply dropped about what that guy was pulling off. But that was just the tip of the iceberg.
You can take pretty much any of the famous country pickers, be it Vince Gill, Albert Lee, Brent Mason, Johnny Hiland or also someone like the more traditional Chet Atkins - they will *all* do quite fine when it's getting jazzier (heck, you could easily slap Mason into a fulltime jazz band, he's just sooo good).
And as an important secondary observation: the same is *not* true vice versa. Stick most accomplished jazzers into a harmonically simpler (but still functional) context and most of them won't do well, to put it very, very carefully.
Now, how is that? How is it that folks performing seemingly simple music are doing so incredibly well in what is usually considered harmonically complexed music? Well, fortunately there's Mr. Franck to bring you the answer (pfft - no, seriously, you don't find these observations often, but it's nothing that special, once you think about it...).
Let's start with a single, simple tonic chord in jazz. And for easiness sake, that's gonna be our good old C major chord.
Now, in jazz, there usually doesn't exist a C major triad, so the chord will be more or less massively enhanced. The first thing to happen usually being that a 7th (or 6th, typically when forced by melody or whenever an oldfashioned sound is asked for) is added. So instead of a vanilla C-E-G chord it's gonna be C-E-G-B(A) already. But it doesn't stop there and we'll often find "option" notes added, in this example it'd usually be a 9th and/or a 13th. Our chord would then become C-E-G-B-D-A. And in case you're just slightly more adventurous, you might treat that tonic chord as a lydian chord and add the #11, too. C-E-G-B-D-F#-A would be the result.
Note: If anyone wanted, I could happily explain chord construction (both theoretically and how to deal with them on guitar), but for now that's not exactly relevant, you just need to believe me, hrrrhrrrhrrr...).
Now, when you compare that to your typical "country tonic chord", you'll likely find that there's no such harmonic experiments happening. Pretty often, it's gonna be a plain triad being used, not even a 7th chord - the latter making a lot of a difference, btw., once 7th are used, our ear is sort of pre-prepared to deal with further option notes as well (quite a simplified explanation, but see above, you'll just have to believe me for now).
Anyhow, regardless of whatever functional background, in an extremely simplified X vs. Y setting, we're ending up with:
Country: C = C-E-G
vs.
Jazz: Cmaj7/9/#11/13 = C-E-G-B-D-F#-A
Jazz being the clear winner here, because more is more, isn't it?
Just that it isn't. Boo!
And now (*drumroll*) it's getting interesting for us mere noodling guitar slingers.
Pretty much the same chord/option note "rules" apply to the target notes of our melodies and noodlings. In other words, in a simple country-ish triad based chord context, your only landing zones within a (typical) 7 note scale are 3.
In a jazzier context however, this number goes up to 6 options already - or, should you feel comfortable with the lydian mode (over major chords at least), even to 7. Within a 7 note scale.
So, for this stupid (or not so stupid, really...) example, let's assume you were noodling mindlessly just using scale notes in either style and are now supposed to hit a proper target note on the next beat one without any preparation. That's a 3/7 chance of hitting a proper note vs. a 6/7 or even 7/7 chance. I'd say that's *quite* a difference, right?
In other words: Hitting the right notes is a lot easier in jazz than in country.
And yes, before anyone gets on me, this is extremely simplified but IMO there's a WHOLE lot of truth behind it (which is proven empirically, see my comments about most decent country players being able to play some jazzier stuff as well, whereas it's usually ending up in epic fails the other way around).
And then, it doesn't stop there.
Typically, country is highly functional music (fwiw, the backing I was just noodling around with isn't the best example as it's located much more in the bluesy realm) and when fooling around with it your playing needs to do that justice.
As another example: A very typical chord progression in the key of C might be something using just tonic and dominant chords, namely C and G.
C is C-E-G
G is G-B-D
So, a) there's just one common note (the G), and b) for either chord, there's still no higher but a 3/7 hit'n'miss chance.
In jazz, the same progression might be Cmaj7/9/13 (leaving out the 11th, resulting in the F to become an avoid (aka "bum") note) and G7/9/13 (again leaving out the 11th, which would be the C).
In notes:
Cmaj7/9/13 is C-E-G-B-D-A
G7/9/13: G-B-D-F-A-E
Many more common notes (5) and just one scalar note to avoid per each chord.
As with the single chord example, we've got vastly less landing space for our target notes and we will now also have to be dealing with properly adressing the issue of having very little common notes. As a blunt (but pretty much suitable) example: Let's assume you've got some scalar licks ending on various degrees (notes) of the scale. In the jazzier realm, not only could you use much more of these licks, ending on pretty much all scale degrees, no, at least in our example, you could even use 5 of them for either chord vs. just one (1!) for our country-ish progression.
And as if all that wasn't enough already, country players typically are extremely familiar with approaching target notes chromatically. That's a pretty welcomed thing in jazz, too - and as you have way less target notes to connect chromatically in country, you need to be much more eloquent with those chromaticisms compared to jazz where pretty much every other note of the chromatic scale will be a suitable chord based target note.
Phew, ok, that should be it for now.
And again, just to make sure: this is super simplified. There's jazz with much more complexed harmonic structures, there's also country with more than major keys and their respective triads, etc., so take all of the above with a healthy dose of salt, but as long as the barebones are concerned, I found all this to be pretty damn well applicable, especially as I've seen quite some examples - basically and most often as in jazz players pretty much failing as soon as less complexed harmonies were involved, but also as in folks familiar with country and related stuff being pretty fluent in other styles. The really great players of either style will not fall into any of these categories anyway.
Still, learning country-ish, simple triad harmony comes with huge benefits, especially in terms of improvising.
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Sascha Franck
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Btw, a lot of things from what I just wrote would've at least sorta worked in a "country vs. rock" chapter, too. How often do we just find the A minor pentatonic recommended over a typical progression such as, say, Am, G, F, G or whatever? Perhaps with an additional "you can as well use A natural minor" to follow. Proper, chord-suitable target notes? Ah no, let's rather not go there but increase note shredding density for compensation. No way going that route in country.
And fwiw, whenever it comes to improvisation (or just creating lines), this is really the first thing to separate the wheat from the chaff. Regardless of style, pretty much all great players I know of do the harmonic environment justice.
So, in that progression from above, on the G chord, FFS start targeting the B instead of the C that you've just used because you're oh-so-familiar with the old Am pentatonic. And no, that B is not part of this very pentatonic, so it's time to learn some new tricks!
Btw, not adressing anyone round these parts in particular (I have no idea about most of you folks' playing competence), it's really just some general observations.
And fwiw, whenever it comes to improvisation (or just creating lines), this is really the first thing to separate the wheat from the chaff. Regardless of style, pretty much all great players I know of do the harmonic environment justice.
So, in that progression from above, on the G chord, FFS start targeting the B instead of the C that you've just used because you're oh-so-familiar with the old Am pentatonic. And no, that B is not part of this very pentatonic, so it's time to learn some new tricks!
Btw, not adressing anyone round these parts in particular (I have no idea about most of you folks' playing competence), it's really just some general observations.
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BahamaDada
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A thread, that suits me at the moment...
My new fatherhood drove me head over heels into a Dream Theater spiral. Why? Since the lil one is here I can't really listen to uber-brootal Metalcore with screams. What's left? Dream Theater, bc my wife says it's ok for shortstop to hear. I told her it's like classical music in metal form. Bought 2 new (old) CDs of them since.
What has this done to me by now? My fingers are literally bleeding from playing Dream Theater stuff. I never played Dream Theater. I'm a rocker and nu metal knob. So at the moment I've got a huge crush on Another Day and I can nail the intro solo pretty much. The *real* solo? Oh boy, those fret 11 bends right in the beginning kills my (now soft from not playing much) fingertips. Even ordered 9-42 strings yesterday bc the 10-46 is getting tiring. I can play it right up to that part. You know which one. The fast one. The 14-16-18 and so on part. And this is really the BIGGEST bump I have ever started to climb in my guitar career.
My new fatherhood drove me head over heels into a Dream Theater spiral. Why? Since the lil one is here I can't really listen to uber-brootal Metalcore with screams. What's left? Dream Theater, bc my wife says it's ok for shortstop to hear. I told her it's like classical music in metal form. Bought 2 new (old) CDs of them since.
What has this done to me by now? My fingers are literally bleeding from playing Dream Theater stuff. I never played Dream Theater. I'm a rocker and nu metal knob. So at the moment I've got a huge crush on Another Day and I can nail the intro solo pretty much. The *real* solo? Oh boy, those fret 11 bends right in the beginning kills my (now soft from not playing much) fingertips. Even ordered 9-42 strings yesterday bc the 10-46 is getting tiring. I can play it right up to that part. You know which one. The fast one. The 14-16-18 and so on part. And this is really the BIGGEST bump I have ever started to climb in my guitar career.
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If you’re gonna start on some Petrucci, you’re starting at the right place!!!
GuitarBeastKing
Newbie
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Patiently trying to perfect a cover of "Over the Mountain" by Randy Rhoads, hopefully before the year ends 
Ed DeGenaro
Roadie
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Spent the day working with nothing but half-while lines over
4 bars E7
2 bars A7
2 bars E7
B7
C7
Bb7
Ab7
2 bars G7
C7
B7
4 bars E7
2 bars A7
2 bars E7
B7
C7
Bb7
Ab7
2 bars G7
C7
B7
duzie
Shredder
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I’m unfamiliar with the term half-while.
What is this ?
Ed DeGenaro
Roadie
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damn auto correct. Half-whole scale same as diminished starting on the 7th.
Resulting sequence is
Root b2 b3 3 #4 5 6 b7
Jarick
Shredder
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Decided to try and learn This Charming Man and my brain/fingers do not work like Johnny Marr. Been at it for a few hours off and on. It's fun but man it is a challenge!
Where did it ever occur to this guy to write riffs like this? He's just so out of left field how he plays these melodies and uses open strings.
Where did it ever occur to this guy to write riffs like this? He's just so out of left field how he plays these melodies and uses open strings.
JasonE
Roadie
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- 446
I am working on motivation. This is not a joke. I have struggled with this for the last few years. I am going to try to force myself to get into some things this year to see if I can spark some motivation to surface. I have found a little bit through the last 6 months but really want to get it back to where I was before the lockdowns.
Byrdman
Roadie
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Marr is one of my favorites! I learned the intro about a year ago, but didnt finish it up. All his stuff is pretty hard like that, IMO.
TSJMajesty
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Played a LOT this weekend, for a change! I've been slacking the past few weeks..., just kinda lost interest for a bit (which I do not like!) But I made up for it the past few days.
It takes me a couple hours to get my hands fully comfortable, probably due to some arthritis beginning, especially if I don't play every day. But today, I'm feeling totally loose. So I'm really happy about that.
Been really focused on inside & outside string changes, using one riff that if I start with a DS, it's all inside changes; Start on an US, and it's all outside. I feel that getting this particular technical aspect fluid, translates to so much stuff, and since it's definitely an area I struggle with, I'm trying to put some extra time into it.
That, and some exercises that force my fingers to stay close to the strings, and some legato stuff to help my pinky strength. Typical weaknesses, I suppose.
An example riff for the string changes is that run-up part near the end of the main solo in Bark At The Moon. That one is actually a mixture of both types of string changes, no matter how I try to play it, so it's a really good one. Plus, it's palm-muted on the lower strings, which makes it even harder to keep even and fluid!
It takes me a couple hours to get my hands fully comfortable, probably due to some arthritis beginning, especially if I don't play every day. But today, I'm feeling totally loose. So I'm really happy about that.
Been really focused on inside & outside string changes, using one riff that if I start with a DS, it's all inside changes; Start on an US, and it's all outside. I feel that getting this particular technical aspect fluid, translates to so much stuff, and since it's definitely an area I struggle with, I'm trying to put some extra time into it.
That, and some exercises that force my fingers to stay close to the strings, and some legato stuff to help my pinky strength. Typical weaknesses, I suppose.
An example riff for the string changes is that run-up part near the end of the main solo in Bark At The Moon. That one is actually a mixture of both types of string changes, no matter how I try to play it, so it's a really good one. Plus, it's palm-muted on the lower strings, which makes it even harder to keep even and fluid!
Stratzrus
Roadie
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Right now I'm rustier than I have been in years. I've been laying off for months.
Awhile back I went to Vermont to jam with my Hardcore/Funk buddies and for a variety of reasons I took my Telecaster. Playing on a professional level was a real challenge and I struggled the whole time.
Afterwards I apologized for how out of shape I was but the guys said it sounded fine. I don't know if they were serious or just being kind. Maybe some of both.
Anyway, I knew a Telecaster would make me an "honest" player but I'd always felt comfortable playing it at home. The challenge of playing it in a jam session with competent musicians who were gigging regularly was humbling.
What I'm working on now is my motivation to start practicing on a regular basis again. After putting it off for two months I finally hauled my FR-12 up to my office. It's still unboxed but it's closer to seeing the light of day.
Hopefully sometime this week I'll splash some cold water on my face, wake myself up, and get to work again.
la szum
Goatlord
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la szum
Goatlord
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Oh man. I can feel that. You have to earn every note on a Tele. Nothing free. Nothing easy.
I kind of like it. It's like having to chop your own wood if you want to stay warm.
TSJMajesty
Rock Star
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Why is that? (Never played one.)
