Walk thru my latest fever dream/delusion of grandeur with me, won't you? (Red Vinter thread)

[-BOOGIEMAN-]

I like hearing the different points of view. I think it’s a healthy process and one that should take place with those who are interested in putting a group together. It sucks to put in a lot of work only to find out someone wasn’t clear on the decided vision/goals. Reading this thread confirms my decision to simply play music for fun. Too much damn drama in that life, been there, done that…

 

[laxu]

But, based solely on past experiences, playing well is a different skillset than writing well and while I've found dozens and dozens of guys to jam with over the years who played well, the guys who wrote well I can count on less than 2 hands.

This is pretty much why I never ventured outside the "cover songs for fun" category. I work in IT and don't care if the music stuff pays anything because I know I'm not good enough to make music a career choice. Nor do I want to, it's a tough industry.

Doing originals is more effort than a weekend warrior thing and I'm just not good at songwriting as it's a skill that needs a lot of separate practice. Then finding people who are good at songwriting and also have a similar taste to what you'd like to do is difficult.

But hey, you can always start a band and then do something else if it doesn't work out if it's not your primary means of income.

As for the gear, HX Stomp + poweramp + cab for bass sounds like a pretty awesome rig. Most bass amps are nothing more than a preamp + Class D poweramp modules these days anyway.

 

[Whizzinby]

When I was in originals bands in my late teens to early twenties you’d be lucky to make $20 apiece for a show, and at several venues the “pay” was two free drinks from the bar.

Fast forward a decade with my rock n roll ambitions behind me, I had a coworker whose fiancé was in a cover band and asked me to fill in on bass. I begrudgingly accepted, and much to my surprise my cut for most gigs was between $200-400. I was kinda shocked how much cover bands could get at the right venues. Of course I quit after a couple months because I’m not a bass player or overly motivated doing covers.

I think originals is a young man’s game. (Noting I’m not an “old” man lol) There is a period in your life when hanging at a rehearsal spot for hours on end is cool, and being broke is expected. At a certain point the juice isn’t worth the squeeze though.

I’m with Bruce, hanging in a jam room for hours and rushing to book small time gigs doesn’t really seem appealing. Produce some demos and see if you can build some momentum on social platforms. It’s a different game these days, so I would definitely approach it differently then when I was a kid. That and I just really don’t want to hang in Daryl’s garage every Tuesday for 3 hours.

 

[Iron1]

I’m with Bruce, hanging in a jam room for hours and rushing to book small time gigs doesn’t really seem appealing. Produce some demos and see if you can build some momentum on social platforms. It’s a different game these days, so I would definitely approach it differently then when I was a kid.

So, serious question: how is trying to build a following on social platforms more effective than playing gigs with established bands that perform in the same genre?

I'm genuinely curious about this as it seems like trying to get attention online these days is like shining a flashlight off the surface of the sun: you're doing something but no one notices.

But, if you play a gig with an established band that already has 50-100-500-1000 people coming to their shows, that's a targeted audience who already shows an affinity for music akin to yours.

I know there are success stories from both camps, but the only plus side I see to the social media avenue is less effort... which often equals less reward. But, then you look at people like Ola who works his tail off to get his online deal rolling. Unfortunately, like everything else, for every Ola there are 10,000 (insert only got 15 likes YT "influencer" here).

If there's a secret to building a following on social media without playing gigs, I'd love to hear about it though. Would be great to mix the two and (hopefully) multiple the results.

 

[spawnofthesith]

So, serious question: how is trying to build a following on social platforms more effective than playing gigs with established bands that perform in the same genre?

I'm genuinely curious about this as it seems like trying to get attention online these days is like shining a flashlight off the surface of the sun: you're doing something but no one notices.

But, if you play a gig with an established band that already has 50-100-500-1000 people coming to their shows, that's a targeted audience who already shows an affinity for music akin to yours.

I know there are success stories from both camps, but the only plus side I see to the social media avenue is less effort... which often equals less reward. But, then you look at people like Ola who works his tail off to get his online deal rolling. Unfortunately, like everything else, for every Ola there are 10,000 (insert only got 15 likes YT "influencer" here).

If there's a secret to building a following on social media without playing gigs, I'd love to hear about it though. Would be great to mix the two and (hopefully) multiple the results.

I'm no social media maverick, but most of my band's online followers stem from playing "small time shows" and also going to other local bands shows just to watch and chit chatting with other bands and their fans (also helps get more gigs too)

It's all related imo. And let's say you even do get a big online following, if we are talking about having thousands and thousands of listeners around the world, you still might just be playing to bartenders when you start playing gigs. A wide reach is important, but so is grassroots work imo

 

[Whizzinby]

So, serious question: how is trying to build a following on social platforms more effective than playing gigs with established bands that perform in the same genre?

I don’t think the average originals band has established bands putting them on at creation, but if you have bands/contacts to leverage that probably changes the approach and helps considerably.

I wouldn’t say anything is more effective than the other though, both are important, but I was more following the scenario Bruce and others were talking about. I’d probably be more focused on cutting an EP worth of material and seeing if it moved all involved enough to really go for it. (And trying to have all the social media stuff off the ground once you start the pub gig circuit, to be ready to market the band trying to land bigger gigs, and push fans to at shows etc)

 

[la szum]

The answer, for me, is playing music without expectation of reward or appreciation.

No one owes us a damn thing. Not likes. Not money. Not adulation. Not even respect.

I feel the pure joy of being able to play music, in a world with no guarantees of anything, is
the sanest and healthiest approach.

I only share this, because the last couple of pages of this thread depressed the fuck out of me.

 

[duzie]

When I was in originals bands in my late teens to early twenties you’d be lucky to make $20 apiece for a show, and at several venues the “pay” was two free drinks from the bar.

Fast forward a decade with my rock n roll ambitions behind me, I had a coworker whose fiancé was in a cover band and asked me to fill in on bass. I begrudgingly accepted, and much to my surprise my cut for most gigs was between $200-400. I was kinda shocked how much cover bands could get at the right venues. Of course I quit after a couple months because I’m not a bass player or overly motivated doing covers.

I think originals is a young man’s game. (Noting I’m not an “old” man lol) There is a period in your life when hanging at a rehearsal spot for hours on end is cool, and being broke is expected. At a certain point the juice isn’t worth the squeeze though.

I’m with Bruce, hanging in a jam room for hours and rushing to book small time gigs doesn’t really seem appealing. Produce some demos and see if you can build some momentum on social platforms. It’s a different game these days, so I would definitely approach it differently then when I was a kid. That and I just really don’t want to hang in Daryl’s garage every Tuesday for 3 hours.

Do you have Daryl’s address lol
I would love to have someplace to go and hang .

 

[Alex Kenivel]

NGL a weekly garage jam kinda sounds cool

 

[spawnofthesith]

I spend 40-50 hours a week making money, I play guitar because it’s what I like to do. Getting paid for doing it is just an added bonus. I do personally very much enjoy the “hang” aspect of practice and shows, but I can potentially understand why some do not, especially with families/commutes/being burned out from it/not liking your band mates/etc.

 

[duzie]

I spend 40-50 hours a week making money, I play guitar because it’s what I like to do. Getting paid for doing it is just an added bonus. I do personally very much enjoy the “hang” aspect of practice and shows, but I can potentially understand why some do not, especially with families/commutes/being burned out from it/not liking your band mates/etc.

40-50 hours a week spent making money , I hear ya!
In addition there are other commitments as well for me .
Twice a month on the weekends would be ideal and as far as getting paid for playing…
People would probably pay me to stop playing

 

[Iron1]

Sit Rep: Went to the drummer's place last night and after about 5-10 minutes of tweaking things and getting a feel we slid into a nice groove. Jammed for about 1.5 hours, taking breaks here and there to chat about what we both were after, where we wanted to go, and flakey musicians (the last guy he tried to jam with was a guitar player who showed up 45 minutes late, brought a 25-watt 8" Fender combo practice amp of some sort and said "I've been thinking about getting a real amp someday...").

We gelled really well. Sounds like this band has a foundation now. Next up, finding a guitar player who shows up on time with pro gear. Bonus if they can sing in different/complimentary styles to what I do.

Cool part, in relation to the last page or so of this thread, he said almost exactly what @spawnofthesith said a few posts above: "I have a day job that makes my money, I do this because it's what I enjoy doing... if we get paid that's a bonus, but I'm not in this to make money."

We turned each other onto some different music, talked about how we want the first song to feel/vibe, how we're going to go about writing together and what we hope to find in a guitar player.

Now to get myself back in playing shape, cause standing and playing for 1.5 hours after carting a giant bass rig up and down two flights of stairs is slightly more physically demanding than sitting in my "home studio" and playing for 5-10 minutes at a clip while writing songs.

So far, so good. \m/

 

[FuzzyAce]

(the last guy he tried to jam with was a guitar player who showed up 45 minutes late, brought a 25-watt 8" Fender combo practice amp of some sort and said "I've been thinking about getting a real amp someday...").

Hey man, that fender rocked hard! But I finally upgraded to a Peavey Bandit.

 

[Iron1]

Hey man, that fender rocked hard! But I finally upgraded to a Peavey Bandit.

My counter-story to his:

When I lived in LA in the 90s, we had a band going but needed a drummer. Finally found a guy, his audition tape was great, he talked the talk, all that. So, we rented a rehearsal space for 2 hours to jam with him and see if it would work out. We had the space from 1-3pm on a Saturday.

We get there about 12:45, get the room, get our gear in and make sure it's all set.

1:00 rolls by and no drummer dude

1:15 rolls by, still no drummer dude...

1:30, 1:45, 2:00, 2:15....

Finally at 2:45 we give up and pack our gear to leave. He walks in as we're just about to bail, no drum set, no nada. Then says something like "Oh, I thought you rented a kit for me to play on..." No explanation of why he was late, no explanation of why he thought we were renting a kit for him (not sure that as even a thing back then... maybe?) and then he stated he was disappointed that we were irritated with him and he couldn't jam with that sort of negative energy and left. I'm guessing he works the night shift at Circle K or some such now...

 

[FuzzyAce]

My counter-story to his:

When I lived in LA in the 90s, we had a band going but needed a drummer. Finally found a guy, his audition tape was great, he talked the talk, all that. So, we rented a rehearsal space for 2 hours to jam with him and see if it would work out. We had the space from 1-3pm on a Saturday.

We get there about 12:45, get the room, get our gear in and make sure it's all set.

1:00 rolls by and no drummer dude

1:15 rolls by, still no drummer dude...

1:30, 1:45, 2:00, 2:15....

Finally at 2:45 we give up and pack our gear to leave. He walks in as we're just about to bail, no drum set, no nada. Then says something like "Oh, I thought you rented a kit for me to play on..." No explanation of why he was late, no explanation of why he thought we were renting a kit for him (not sure that as even a thing back then... maybe?) and then he stated he was disappointed that we were irritated with him and he couldn't jam with that sort of negative energy and left. I'm guessing he works the night shift at Circle K or some such now...

Drummers IME are either batsh!t crazy or the coolest and calmest guys to work with. My drummer brother is the former.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Drummers IME are either batsh!t crazy or the coolest and calmest guys to work with. My drummer brother is the former.

We poke fun of them but if your drummer sucks, welp; you're gonna suck

@Iron1 sounds like you have a great start. Hopefully the momentum can carry forward. Last original metal band I did the drummer went on the whole "I have a job that pays my bills I do this for fun" speech. Then proceeded to only want to play for about 10 minutes at a time before he took another smoke break. Um; yeah about that work ethic

 

[JiveTurkey]

Now to get myself back in playing shape, cause standing and playing for 1.5 hours after carting a giant bass rig up and down two flights of stairs is slightly more physically demanding than sitting in my "home studio" and playing for 5-10 minutes at a clip while writing songs.

So far, so good. \m/

Sounds like you need to start shopping for a practice bass rig now that you have your gigging rig sorted

 

[Iron1]

Sounds like you need to start shopping for a practice bass rig now that you have your gigging rig sorted

I'm really just hoping I can leave the gig rig at the drummer's place. I got a little Roland Cube Bass 30 for $40 last week and it's plenty for sitting at home practicing.

But, NGL, going back up his long staircase made me wonder what other cabinet options were out there for band practice.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I'm really just hoping I can leave the gig rig at the drummer's place. I got a little Roland Cube Bass 30 for $40 last week and it's plenty for sitting at home practicing.

But, NGL, going back up his long staircase made me wonder what other cabinet options were out there for band practice.

Once you are comfortable with knowing the guy isn't going to flake; you could get another beat up 410 to leave there if you want the full amp experience at home and at the jam room. I'm not sure if you took the 410 and 2 15(?) down there but that's way too much for most jam rooms anyway. Unless it's a huge garage or something similar.

 

[Iron1]

Once you are comfortable with knowing the guy isn't going to flake; you could get another beat up 410 to leave there if you want the full amp experience at home and at the jam room. I'm not sure if you took the 410 and 2 15(?) down there but that's way too much for most jam rooms anyway. Unless it's a huge garage or something similar.

Yeah, I took both cabs mainly cause I wanted the full experience in case it didn't work out. I had planned to unplug each one at a time to see which one did better on it's own, then got so into the jam I forgot all about that.

But, a beater cab to leave is probably the best solution. Thanks for that idea!