Using Multiple Presets Live

If I were to go full modeling with my live rig I’d most likely use the same amp/IR and just different settings on the amp to avoid any big jumps between tones. If it were classic/hard rock stuff I’d probably just use a Marshall-type amp set to edge of breakup and stack digital drives.

With the last cover band I was in I used my EVH head’s 3 channels for the overall platform then dialed in specific effects for certain songs. Between different guitars, the 3-channels and a touch of EQ in a Scene here and there I was able to get pretty specific without having a ton of variance across all of them.
 
Helix in 1/2 DSP mode using Command Center will get you TEN gapless presets by name with spill-over. It is a fantastic way to do gigs!
 
Now that we’ve got gapless switching in most modelers this is the approach I often take:

I create presets based around core amp tones, and then I add effects and variations I need associated with that specific amp tone.
So at a gig, I might have a clean preset, a dirty preset, and a high gain preset and I set up switching to select between sounds in them as needed.

Multiple amps aren’t an issue as long as you’re using your ears to keep your tones cohesive. I very often use 2-4 different amps during a show and it sounds great! Typically I will use one single cab IR for all amps.

The key to all of it is to think cohesion while setting up sounds. Never try to match recordings, think of core types of tones and create a set of those that you need that all sound balanced together.
 
fiftyshadesofslay said:
The best option is a mix of both IMO. I’ve used different presets for every song BUT only with the same amps and cabs.

So you still keep your core tone and don’t piss off the engineer or sound like garbage, but you also get idiot proof switching from verse to chorus etc, and most importantly you can have all the correct effects for each song, including synced delays and all that jazz.
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Yep, this is how I manage my tribute presets. All my guitar presets in a setlist use the same amp and cab settings, +/- a click on the gain or level, depending on the context of that song. Having the FX controlled by snapshots helps minimize tapdancing, and I don't have to worry about my delays being synced to the click in our IEMs. It's more homework but helps me be more in the moment on stage and less focused on logistics. And I don't need printed setlists, since my presets are in setlist order. (I use unused scribble strips to remind me when I need to change tuning.)
 
BahamaDada said:
How can you achieve this? I know (and sometimes use) gapless mode, but CC?
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Use Control Center to assign a certain preset to each of the ten switches. If you are in 1/2 DSP mode, the changes will be gapless. I did this for a year or so and it was great.
 
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I agree that many different sounds are hard to manage. For my cover band I need at least a Marshall and a Fender tone (plus small variations thereof) and I will use no more than 2 different amps (Marshall for 2/3 of the songs and Fender for 1/3). These are carefully eq'd and IR'd so that they do not sound monstruously different -- just two different versions of the sound I have in my head.

I am doing sound for the band, so I know what the keyboard player will use and adjust my tone accordingly. So yes, I will play Queen and Status Quo with Marshall instead of Vox, because I find that changing too many sounds is inconsistent also for the audience. YMMV.

I have a main preset for each of the two main tones, but for gigs I will duplicate them into a preset per song to facilitate switching and set different input gains and other automations for different guitars (e.g. singles coils vs humbuckers) and songs.
 
OP here, thanks everyone for providing such thoughtful responses!

For all of the presets that I am creating, even if there are differences in amps and effects, there are a lot of similarities between the presets as well that are static. I always use the Noise Gate on the input of Helix so that way I don't have to use a block for it, and use the LA Studio Comp at the end of all of my chains, and before that a Dynamic Ambience Reverb (usually in stereo because I use studio headphones primarily at home, but obviously these can easily be changed to mono depending on the situation). I also place a mono Low/High Shelf EQ and Parametric EQ block directly after the amp and before any post-amp effects.

After reading everything, it seems like the view that most matches my own is using several presets in song modes with different effects and at least a similar section of amps, of course making sure your levels match and learning how to do gapless presets. There are then a few more questions I have:

1. Is there usually any issues with switching between a preset that is very wet (say, 80's rack style or some sort of W/D/W thing) vs more dry presets? I am wondering if this would have any issues as well just because the change would be more drastic than switching between normal effects.

2. How do you determine which cab/IR you use, if you are only using one? Most clean amps have 1x12 or 2x12 cab, with some exceptions, and then most of the higher gain amps have 4x12 cabs. Does this drastically alter the tones? I guess the speakers play more of a part in the tone than the size of the cabs, but I feel like the size would be an important part as well.

3. When determining the amp/amps to use, this definitely seems like a tough issue to reconcile, at least for my cases. It would be heresy for me to not use a Vox if I'm covering Queen, for example 😂. I think clean tones seem simple enough: you have Fender-style, Vox-style and solid state/JC-120-style cleans. Crunch seems to get a bit trickier. That’s when Marshalls start coming in, and all their similarly voiced amps. Vox has its own style of crunch sound. Dumble has its own crunch/overdriven style of sound. I’d imagine amps like Mesa and Orange have their own style of crunch sounds. High gain again seems to be ruled by Marshall and Mesa-style tones, 5150 stuff (I put this separate from Marshall because the Peavey and modern EVH models have more gain than the old Brown Sound), Bogner, Diezel, ENGL, Soldano and Revv. How do you guys make your choices here if the gain structures can be vastly different?
 
jay_bucketzbrigade115 said:
OP here, thanks everyone for providing such thoughtful responses!

For all of the presets that I am creating, even if there are differences in amps and effects, there are a lot of similarities between the presets as well that are static. I always use the Noise Gate on the input of Helix so that way I don't have to use a block for it, and use the LA Studio Comp at the end of all of my chains, and before that a Dynamic Ambience Reverb (usually in stereo because I use studio headphones primarily at home, but obviously these can easily be changed to mono depending on the situation). I also place a mono Low/High Shelf EQ and Parametric EQ block directly after the amp and before any post-amp effects.

After reading everything, it seems like the view that most matches my own is using several presets in song modes with different effects and at least a similar section of amps, of course making sure your levels match and learning how to do gapless presets. There are then a few more questions I have:

1. Is there usually any issues with switching between a preset that is very wet (say, 80's rack style or some sort of W/D/W thing) vs more dry presets? I am wondering if this would have any issues as well just because the change would be more drastic than switching between normal effects.

2. How do you determine which cab/IR you use, if you are only using one? Most clean amps have 1x12 or 2x12 cab, with some exceptions, and then most of the higher gain amps have 4x12 cabs. Does this drastically alter the tones? I guess the speakers play more of a part in the tone than the size of the cabs, but I feel like the size would be an important part as well.

3. When determining the amp/amps to use, this definitely seems like a tough issue to reconcile, at least for my cases. It would be heresy for me to not use a Vox if I'm covering Queen, for example 😂. I think clean tones seem simple enough: you have Fender-style, Vox-style and solid state/JC-120-style cleans. Crunch seems to get a bit trickier. That’s when Marshalls start coming in, and all their similarly voiced amps. Vox has its own style of crunch sound. Dumble has its own crunch/overdriven style of sound. I’d imagine amps like Mesa and Orange have their own style of crunch sounds. High gain again seems to be ruled by Marshall and Mesa-style tones, 5150 stuff (I put this separate from Marshall because the Peavey and modern EVH models have more gain than the old Brown Sound), Bogner, Diezel, ENGL, Soldano and Revv. How do you guys make your choices here if the gain structures can be vastly different?
Click to expand...

I think you’re in danger of falling into the trap of trying to use too much just because it’s there.

How did you choose your amp(s) to bring to a gig when you were using tube amps? Did you find it necessary to have 6 amps to cover everything?

Same for cabs. When you played live with tube amps did you find it necessary to bring a 1x12, and a 2x12, and a 4x12… maybe a 2x10? Or did you have one good sounding cab you used for everything?

For me, the best way to set up my live sounds is to think more in terms of what I would use if I was using the actual physical gear. For example I might have brought a Bassman head and an AC30 head and run them both into a 2x12 open back with greenbacks.

I also think it’s typically best to be very careful about post-processing stuff like compressors, reverbs, and EQs. It’s very easy to dial these in so it’s sounding great at home, but it buries you in a live mix and sits weird with the other instruments. If you have others playing analog or acoustic instruments (such as acoustic drums or other guitars using amps) it can create a sound where they sound natural in the room and you sound like a recording and don’t blend well with them. Use your ears during sound check
 
Same IR is a MUST. Amp channels can change. The IR is ultimately the final EQ curve before you hot the desk, so that should remain as consistent as possible throughout the set.
 
JiveTurkey said:
Say you have watched too many Jason Sadites videos without saying you've watched too many Jason Sadites videos :nails
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Aaron Paul He Cant Keep Getting Away With This GIF by Breaking Bad
 
JiveTurkey said:
Say you have watched too many Jason Sadites videos without saying you've watched too many Jason Sadites videos :nails
Click to expand...
Yes, guilty as charged lol….but what exactly is wrong with that? His advice helped my tones sound better, so I stuck with it. He is also not the only one who suggests these tips, as I have seen other people also recommend putting compressors at the end of the chains and using Low/High Cuts to enable their Helix presets to have a sound more like a tube amp. I do have the EQ blocks placed differently because i found placing them after the post-amp effects did not sound good at all; I only want the EQ affecting the amps.

It seems like you are not a fan of his advice; if you have any advice on how I could be doing things differently, I'm always interested to hear other peoples’ perspectives.
 
metropolis_4 said:
I think you’re in danger of falling into the trap of trying to use too much just because it’s there.

How did you choose your amp(s) to bring to a gig when you were using tube amps? Did you find it necessary to have 6 amps to cover everything?

Same for cabs. When you played live with tube amps did you find it necessary to bring a 1x12, and a 2x12, and a 4x12… maybe a 2x10? Or did you have one good sounding cab you used for everything?

For me, the best way to set up my live sounds is to think more in terms of what I would use if I was using the actual physical gear. For example I might have brought a Bassman head and an AC30 head and run them both into a 2x12 open back with greenbacks.

I also think it’s typically best to be very careful about post-processing stuff like compressors, reverbs, and EQs. It’s very easy to dial these in so it’s sounding great at home, but it buries you in a live mix and sits weird with the other instruments. If you have others playing analog or acoustic instruments (such as acoustic drums or other guitars using amps) it can create a sound where they sound natural in the room and you sound like a recording and don’t blend well with them. Use your ears during sound check
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t say that my mindset is that I’m trying to use too much because the gear itself is there; I would moreso say that I am considering using more because the tonal differences are there, important distinctions in achieving certain sounds. But that could very well be the same thing.

That’s part of the reason why I - along with probably countless others - chose to go down the modelling route in the first place: it makes more sense to get one piece of gear that can cover all these different sounds rather than getting a bunch of different gear. How I think of it is that if getting all these different sounds is not as important to you, then yeah, you can just get one tube amp and use that (not counting the other portability benefits that modelers provide here).

That being said, I also think the points everyone has been making are good, and I don’t want to HAVE to use a lot of different amps/cabs if I do not have to. I think compartmentalization is important, and what I am realizing is that I will need to conduct more research into the amps available that I am not as familiar with, and then see what fat can be cut when I am creating live presets, or adapting my current presets to use live.

But at the same time, a Vox just has too much of a different sound than a Fender, and a Boogie, especially with its EQ, has a different sound than a Marshall (although ACTUALLY, the Helix does have Mesa’s EQ in a block, so I may need to think more on that lol). These differences need to be accounted for if you’re doing covers and want to do them as accurately as possible, in my opinion.

I do also think the comments about the post-amp studio-esque effects are good ones, especially about the reverbs; I agree that won’t really be needed when performing live.

And yes, I am definitely overthinking things. But that is part of the fun of what we do at times, isn’t it? 😁
 
jay_bucketzbrigade115 said:
Yes, guilty as charged lol….but what exactly is wrong with that? His advice helped my tones sound better, so I stuck with it. He is also not the only one who suggests these tips, as I have seen other people also recommend putting compressors at the end of the chains and using Low/High Cuts to enable their Helix presets to have a sound more like a tube amp. I do have the EQ blocks placed differently because i found placing them after the post-amp effects did not sound good at all; I only want the EQ affecting the amps.

It seems like you are not a fan of his advice; if you have any advice on how I could be doing things differently, I'm always interested to hear other peoples’ perspectives.
Click to expand...

He’s just busting your balls a little bit. Anybody with a Helix that has a compressor at the end of the chain has been watching Jason’s videos. If you were running a Fawn bright with multiple delays we’d know you’ve been watching Worship Tutorials.
 
jay_bucketzbrigade115 said:
I wouldn’t say that my mindset is that I’m trying to use too much because the gear itself is there; I would moreso say that I am considering using more because the tonal differences are there, important distinctions in achieving certain sounds. But that could very well be the same thing.

That’s part of the reason why I - along with probably countless others - chose to go down the modelling route in the first place: it makes more sense to get one piece of gear that can cover all these different sounds rather than getting a bunch of different gear. How I think of it is that if getting all these different sounds is not as important to you, then yeah, you can just get one tube amp and use that (not counting the other portability benefits that modelers provide here).

That being said, I also think the points everyone has been making are good, and I don’t want to HAVE to use a lot of different amps/cabs if I do not have to. I think compartmentalization is important, and what I am realizing is that I will need to conduct more research into the amps available that I am not as familiar with, and then see what fat can be cut when I am creating live presets, or adapting my current presets to use live.

But at the same time, a Vox just has too much of a different sound than a Fender, and a Boogie, especially with its EQ, has a different sound than a Marshall (although ACTUALLY, the Helix does have Mesa’s EQ in a block, so I may need to think more on that lol). These differences need to be accounted for if you’re doing covers and want to do them as accurately as possible, in my opinion.

I do also think the comments about the post-amp studio-esque effects are good ones, especially about the reverbs; I agree that won’t really be needed when performing live.

And yes, I am definitely overthinking things. But that is part of the fun of what we do at times, isn’t it? 😁
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jiz3p.jpg



One thing that gets a lot of people new to digital gear in trouble is thinking “now that I have all of these sounds at my fingertips I’m going to use the same gear that was used on the original recordings for every song in our setlist!”

What can happen is all your tones end up being so disparate that it jumps around from song to song and the whole mix of your band sounds off. Some songs everything blends and the next it’s all different.

The most important thing is think “cohesive” with your tones. Make your tones sound like they belong together.

If you want to use 100 amp models on one gig that’s fine, but use your ears and balance them so that they work together. (Not just the volume level)


I think the smartest way to approach digital gear as a newcomer is to start off by replicating your analog rig. Just use that at first and then start to expand out from there as you hear things you’d like to add or change while you’re playing with the group.
 
metropolis_4 said:
jiz3p.jpg



One thing that gets a lot of people new to digital gear in trouble is thinking “now that I have all of these sounds at my fingertips I’m going to use the same gear that was used on the original recordings for every song in our setlist!”

What can happen is all your tones end up being so disparate that it jumps around from song to song and the whole mix of your band sounds off. Some songs everything blends and the next it’s all different.

The most important thing is think “cohesive” with your tones. Make your tones sound like they belong together.

If you want to use 100 amp models on one gig that’s fine, but use your ears and balance them so that they work together. (Not just the volume level)


I think the smartest way to approach digital gear as a newcomer is to start off by replicating your analog rig. Just use that at first and then start to expand out from there as you hear things you’d like to add or change while you’re playing with the group.
Click to expand...
Say you've watched HW videos without saying you've watched HW videos
Let's see if this works twice
 
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