Using Multiple Presets Live

[jay_bucketzbrigade115]

Hi all,

I’m really interested to get people’s opinions on this especially for those of you who are performing in tribute/cover bands, and thought it would be a good topic for discussion.

I was recently listening to an episode of Steve Starlacci’s podcast with Leon Todd, and at one point, they were discussing one of Leon’s students who had created a bunch of different presets that they were using, something related to Tom Petty I believe. Both of them cringed a bit at this, and Leon mentioned about how he advised his student to choose one amp he really liked and base all the different effects you use around that in one preset instead of switching from preset to preset during a gig. They respectively had the opinion against this approach because if you did this during a gig, the sound guys would get really annoyed with you, which does make a lot of sense.

While there is nothing wrong with what Leon suggested at all, this also seems to discourage the practice of performing with modelers in song modes/set lists, which I know some people do, and I personally for myself have been creating different presets based on different artists focused on getting as close to their tone also possible, and for the focus of getting the tones of each artist right, it wouldn’t make send to have a single preset with one amp when you are trying to copy the tones of multiple artists in a single show.

What have your experiences been with using multiple presets in a single set, and how do you guys usually reconcile this with respective FOH/sound teams?

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

and I personally for myself have been creating different presets based on different artists focused on getting as close to their tone also possible, and for the focus of getting the tones of each artist right, it wouldn’t make send to have a single preset with one amp when you are trying to copy the tones of multiple artists in a single show.

I guess if that’s what you go for, you’d have to go for presets per song (almost)

For me, preset per song wasn’t comfortable. In my mind, even IF exact copies add value for the end result, there are too many downsides, being:
- risk of sounds not sitting well in the mix, both stage as well as foh. 9/10 a band has “a sound” that’s static on many dimensions, drumsound, vocal settings, the preference of a foh mixer…when you are the only one changing positions every song..in my mind counter productive.
- having volumes right at “soundselection” is hard enough with just a couple sounds…a nightmare with many sounds.
- hard to adjust for the room, or another guitar. Little less gain for a higher output guitar, or less verb in a very reflective room..easy with one (or a few presets), undoable with 60 presets.
- situations where setlists are changed on the fly become unmanageable
Maybe if you play somewhere where everything is always the same every night, well rehearsed, other sounds in the band change with you…maybe then it pays off

I’ve always taken the approach to have a couple of gain stages available, with the ability to control efx separately. (Expression pedals, stomp switches). I feel im able to come close enough to respect the original, but at the same time stay consistent within “the mix of the night”, which makes happier me, band mates and audience.
Preferred setup is one preset, with a couple of scenes to have instant changes, couple of stomps (clean boosts post and pre gain), expressions controlling delay lvl and volume. When a unit can’t do scene…5 presets, 4 from clean to mean, (again stomps/expressions) and the fifth for anything exotic in the set.
Offcourse this means you have to do 1 or 2 taps more to get what you need, that has always been manageable…and it’s saves a whooooole lot of programming / programming setlists

 

[Sleezy E]

When I first got a Helix I made several presets to match the tones of some of the cover songs we were playing.

It sounds like a great idea but after 2 practices I went with the 1 amp/kitchen sink style preset.

Like was said before it can be tedious to level match everything and while I thought it was a little jarring at times switching tones between songs.. my band mates thought it was terrible.

 

[JCW308]

Kitchen sink for sure. Or use something with completely gapless preset switching and clone/duplicate your presets.

 

[pipelineaudio]

The tribute bands with the corporate gigs at the hotels here have ridiculously specific presets per song a lot of the time. Often there is a master system that sends out commands to change all the presets at different times per song saved with the scenes on the mixer. So far its usually AXE FX rackmount units, but every once in a while there's a Helix and I try to get some of the presets.

I do the worst of both worlds...I have a kitchen sink preset, but save one version per song with the key written on it and the harmonizer changed to that key. Sometimes I change the order of the snapshot switches as well, but I think that may be making things harder in the heat of the moment

 

[Alex Kenivel]

It's a lot easier to have one, a few, or even a handful of presets to shuffle through to get the different sounds I want. I would gig in a cover band with my HX Stomp and have maybe 4 presets, mostly with the same AC30 setup except one with a Mesa for those high gain moments in the set. Always the same IR all night for consistency.

- risk of sounds not sitting well in the mix, both stage as well as foh. 9/10 a band has “a sound” that’s static on many dimensions, drumsound, vocal settings, the preference of a foh mixer…when you are the only one changing positions every song..in my mind counter productive.
- having volumes right at “soundselection” is hard enough with just a couple sounds…a nightmare with many sounds.

If I were using my Helix Floor for gigs, I'd use gapless switching and have different presets assigned to the footswitches in Stomp mode to instantly jump to one or another.

 

[pipelineaudio]

They respectively had the opinion against this approach because if you did this during a gig, the sound guys would get really annoyed with you, which does make a lot of sense.

This is only true if the player is from the pits of hell and didn't level his presets ahead of time, and ignores that different presets can be based on exactly the same setup but with just some delay time parameter changed or something

I had (PodGo and Helix) a band in with two guitar players who didn't level their presets on Saturday, and after the fact, mixing the live recording, no problem, but during the show? OUCH!

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[pipelineaudio]

If I were using my Helix Floor for gigs, I'd use gapless switching and have different presets assigned to the footswitches in Stomp mode to instantly jump to one or another.

Snapshots switch even faster

 

[fiftyshadesofslay]

The best option is a mix of both IMO. I’ve used different presets for every song BUT only with the same amps and cabs.

So you still keep your core tone and don’t piss off the engineer or sound like garbage, but you also get idiot proof switching from verse to chorus etc, and most importantly you can have all the correct effects for each song, including synced delays and all that jazz.

 

[sleewell]

one preset

 

[Richard_G]

I think leaning towards being coherent/consistent across a setlist instead of perfecting presets for single songs in isolation is good advice.

 

[JiveTurkey]

One single preset. If CPU is a concern; create a template and swap out per song effects as needed.

 

[holoholo]

I use multiple presets live but always use the same mic/cab. I usually only switch presets to switch in other effects that wouldn't fit in a kitchen sink preset - which I would prefer if I had the dsp/footswitches to accommodate all the shit I want to turn on/off.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Snapshots switch even faster

I'd have those set up for each preset, too

 

[riffy]

I have found it is very easy to get lost in a mix, changing amplifiers and cabs a lot. Even different songs it’s somewhat different and difficult. The drums never change their sound, the bass player does not change his sound, and my other guitar player uses a Marshall JCM 800 1/2 stack with pedals. So he rarely changes his sound.

If I am the only one changing amps and cabs, I am going to be the one who suffers and gets lost in the mix or sticks out like a sore thumb and sounds bad.

I found it easier just to use a one amp in cab and change gain or maybe click on an overdrive or a wah, but that is about it.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Some of these tribute bands have absolutely wild tone swings from song to song especially when they are changing bands. But it’s all manageable when it’s professionals. They have well levelled presets and any massive tone change is intended. Even then sometimes some crazy effect comes flying out that you didn’t expect if you dont know the songs.

 

[Sedaxel]

I use presets with the same amp sim and cab (when I go "FRFR"). No problem at all with volume matching.

For me it´s more important the only-one-stomping action per tone change, instead of 2 or 3 stompings to deactivate chorus and compressor and activate OD (so to speak). Some few times I need to change the tone too quick and I´d have a hard time stomping three times, I´m sure I´d mess it up. Yeah, scenes are a similar way of doing it, but my system has no scenes. And the gapless switching is not really necessary for my use case (even when my current rig I don´t have perceivable gap), so I don´t miss scenes at all either. My mind is very comfortable thinking in "presets mode". One is the clean, other the chorus, the OD, lead, one or two with different delays... each one with its switch. Easiest way for me.

 

[laxu]

The primary thing to avoid is too drastic changes in volume and voicing that might send the FOH engineer frantically adjusting stuff, or having all that well rehearsed so it comes as no surprise. I think e.g preset per song can work in a cover band scenario, but you do want to level match them and maybe compromise a bit on the amp tones so they don't change completely.

Using song/set list features does not mean you can't use the same presets in all of those. Just rearrange your switching if the song structure in song A is intro - verse - chorus - verse - chorus - outro and song B is intro - verse - chorus - verse - bridge - chorus - verse - solo - chorus - outro etc. That still lets you easily step through the sound changes.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I agree with everyone who sticks to one amp and cab for the reasons they point out. However, you can get away with switching things up if you’re mindful about it. I’ll use 1-3 amp/cabs, but the reason I switch is less about the particular song and more about where I want to sit in the mix of that song. Also, changing levels on the fly with 2 or 3 presets is unpleasant but manageable, whereas any more than that would be nightmare.

 

[BahamaDada]

No problem changing the amp IMO as long as the Cab/Mic (the IR) stays the same. Then it's just a leveling/EQ problem.

When I did covers though (end of 2000s/early 2010s) I usually used 1 preset for everything on my (then) HD500: Cleans were Fender Twin and Drive was JCM. If I wanted it harder I engaged a TS in front of it. Softer? No TS and a dialed back volume on the guitar. Went well for the time and gigs we played. When I still used amps in that band it wasn't different either. I had an Engl and after that a JVM. Both were still one amp so the "1 Amp does it all for covers" wasn't strange to me. We did not cover them perfectly, though. Was never the intention.