The Rack Thread

[EOengineer]

We really ought to have a rack section on this forum. @DrewJD82 is that an option?

I impulse bought a Mesa Simul Satellite combo sight unseen from GC. I wanted a simul class power amp to pair with the Studio Preamp but didn’t want to deal with stereo and 8 power tubes. The simul satellite chassis can be used with a Mesa rack mount kit.

This thing was stupidly low priced so I thought I was getting a great deal until discovering that Mesa’s rack mount kits for their chassis’ are like $200. Some light buyers remorse at the moment but we will see how things shake out.

A rack mounted mono simul class power amp is a cool concept and the simul satellite combo could prove useful with modeling.

 

[Eagle]

We really ought to have a rack section on this forum. @DrewJD82 is that an option?

I impulse bought a Mesa Simul Satellite combo sight unseen from GC. I wanted a simul class power amp to pair with the Studio Preamp but didn’t want to deal with stereo and 8 power tubes. The simul satellite chassis can be used with a Mesa rack mount kit.

This thing was stupidly low priced so I thought I was getting a great deal until discovering that Mesa’s rack mount kits for their chassis’ are like $200. Some light buyers remorse at the moment but we will see how things shake out.

A rack mounted mono simul class power amp is a cool concept and the simul satellite combo could prove useful with modeling.

You can find the old mesa 50 50 pretty cheap and it’s very good quality. 46L6s 2u and not silly heavy. Not particularly neutral though.

 

[Shredder777]

We really ought to have a rack section on this forum. @DrewJD82 is that an option?

I impulse bought a Mesa Simul Satellite combo sight unseen from GC. I wanted a simul class power amp to pair with the Studio Preamp but didn’t want to deal with stereo and 8 power tubes. The simul satellite chassis can be used with a Mesa rack mount kit.

This thing was stupidly low priced so I thought I was getting a great deal until discovering that Mesa’s rack mount kits for their chassis’ are like $200. Some light buyers remorse at the moment but we will see how things shake out.

A rack mounted mono simul class power amp is a cool concept and the simul satellite combo could prove useful with modeling.

Certainly you can make your own with some sheet metal, some tools, and some paint? You just cut and bend the metal, drill the mounting holes, and the spray paint them black.

 

[Eagle]

Certainly you can make your own with some sheet metal, some tools, and some paint? You just cut and bend the metal, drill the mounting holes, and the spray paint them black.

Err no and you can easily end up spending a lot on something that is basically a POS and looks bad.
Only do this if you already have the tools and experience to do a professional job. Or just pay the $200 for something that doesn’t look like you found it in a skip.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I have a Carvin TS100 on the way to me, from a trade at TOP. I plan on either:

1. Using it with my Peavey Rockmaster preamp, either at home, or maybe at gigs.
2. Using it with a Synergy SYN-2, and a couple of modules.
3. Letting a friend of mine use it with his Uberschall module at home.

I know there are better power amps out there, but this was a trade, etc.

It’s a great amp if you get it to a sweet tech and have them retube and bias it to your needs. I did that to mine back around 2000 and it took a couple of rounds of back and forth. Finally, armed with clean 5881’s and a neutral bias it took my rack gear to a new level. It was stolen sadly.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I'm have a Boss ES-8 to handle the switching in my rack but I've been way too lazy to actually implement anything.

My rack is just for home and I'm just chasing the gear I wish I could buy back in the day.

Mini-Museum right there. ART SGX… How does that hold up/sound these days?

 

[scole]

Mini-Museum right there. ART SGX… How does that hold up/sound these days?

Same as it did back then- the distortions are pretty muddy and sludgy. I think the Digitech had better distortions but it’s all about nostalgia and having 12 effects at once

 

[KingsXJJ]

Same as it did back then- the distortions are pretty muddy and sludgy. I think the Digitech had better distortions but it’s all about nostalgia and having 12 effects at once

Nice. Yes, my Digitech 2112’s Grunge distortion was pretty much on point through a Carvin TS100 (black) and a Marshall 1960V slant 4x12. Our lead used a ART SGX-2000 Express through a red knob fender twin and he sounded like A$$ compared to the rhythm tone. Mid-90’s Cover Band with the expected play list.

 

[Eagle]

Some of these terrible sounding units are what killed rack in the first round.
The first thing to do with any of them was isolate the core dry tone and see how it compares to a tube amp .
If it wasn’t as good stop right there and get something else. You absolutely needed to start with a great pre amp preferably all tube and then one of a handful of decent power amps.
This always cost three times at least the price of a head.
The budget all in one box’s universally sounded like shit for core tone. The cheapest half decent sounding pre amp was the ADA and the SP77but integrating the SP77 was still going to be expensive.
when it came out the MP1 cost £695 to put that in perspective a Jem 777 (same time ) was £795 a USA standard Strat was £369 . The Boogie 50 /50 was the cheapest tube power amps before the Marshall 9005 and that was £795 .
Remember the Roland GP 16 a total pos and £495.

 

[Eagle]

The Triaxis was £1295 and the 395 was £1495 soon to be replaced by the 290 for £1099. These were crazy expensive. The X88R was £1500 if you were prepared to wait a year.
Then fx were almost as expensive if you wanted the good stuff. TC2290 was over £1k same for the H3000se and PCM 70 /90 exc wasn’t much cheaper and you would need a mixer to use the Lexicon live and a then very expensive foot controller. Now even the garbage modelling units sound ok.
Rack was originally about using the best fx units from the studio out and integrating them into something moveable ( if you call a 12u rack moveable) but it involved having to integrate heads or very boutique preamps.
If you get it right there is nothing better but as this thread shows you can end up with a truck full of stuff that sounds only ok and will be a nightmare if something goes wrong at a gig.
My new rack is going to be 100% no compromise on all pieces or I’m not going to use them because that was always the point .

 

[Eagle]

Ok tried the Gigrig wetter box as an option for analog dry through in my X88ir loop.
It's going back.
In is clearly designed for blending stomp boxes in parallel and has the FX loop capability as an afterthought.
I don't like the sound of the buffer in the dry side when turned on. I don't know but even when in true bypass operation this only applies to the overall bypass and still puts the buffer on when you turn on the pedal (causing a change in the dry side signal in operation ? Sounds like it to me anyway). Also the sweep of the mix control is not very useful blending to the dry signal (great to blend A+B but not B and dry). You also have to leave the A side empty to actually do this you can't make use of the connections (and a switch) to avoid the need of Y leads for stereo operation even though the pedal has a mono in stereo out set of mono jacks.
The configuration of the pedal is also all about putting it on a pedalboard and blending FX boxes not putting it in the back of a rack system.
You really wouldn't think a box that had mono send stereo return (three jacks) unitary gain ( to the FX loop ) and a mixable loop also stereo/mono send stereo return ( four jacks ) was that difficult to do.
The truth is if I put an analog dry though pedal in the series loop it sounds different to the same unit set kill dry through the Wetter box, and by different I mean worse. So for the £249 I am just getting a different shade of different to the overall sound compared to just putting the Axe in series. Neither manage the dry to sound and feel the same as the actual dry.
Years ago I used a Peavey (yes not a typo) Valvex rack mount tube mixer and it was totally transparent. It could do this perfectly but this had multiple channels and only switchable by manually pressing buttons on the front panel is 1u and total overkill for this application (and long discontinued).
The Lehle Parallel 2 may actually be the only compact solution of sufficient quality but this is still F###ing Y leads to do stereo.
A friend of mine uses a PSplit and two mini mix 2s for his rack but there is no loop at all on his preamp. This seems to be transparent but all mixing is on the units themselves and costs about £700.

 

[laxu]

Ok tried the Gigrig wetter box as an option for analog dry through in my X88ir loop.
It's going back.
In is clearly designed for blending stomp boxes in parallel and has the FX loop capability as an afterthought.
I don't like the sound of the buffer in the dry side when turned on. I don't know but even when in true bypass operation this only applies to the overall bypass and still puts the buffer on when you turn on the pedal (causing a change in the dry side signal in operation ? Sounds like it to me anyway). Also the sweep of the mix control is not very useful blending to the dry signal (great to blend A+B but not B and dry). You also have to leave the A side empty to actually do this you can't make use of the connections (and a switch) to avoid the need of Y leads for stereo operation even though the pedal has a mono in stereo out set of mono jacks.
The configuration of the pedal is also all about putting it on a pedalboard and blending FX boxes not putting it in the back of a rack system.

I ran this for a few years to run Strymon Nightsky and Volante in parallel and never had any real issue with it. I used the feature (can't remember which position it is) where A loop is basically dry and you blend in B loop. I had Nightsky in A and Volante in B so I would blend in the Volante, but I usually just lef the knob maxed so it's both at the same time and control the mix on the pedals instead.

The buffer on/off is only for the bypass and I also preferred it set for true bypass, but never concerned myself with it when I have fx on.

 

[Eagle]

I ran this for a few years to run Strymon Nightsky and Volante in parallel and never had any real issue with it. I used the feature (can't remember which position it is) where A loop is basically dry and you blend in B loop. I had Nightsky in A and Volante in B so I would blend in the Volante, but I usually just lef the knob maxed so it's both at the same time and control the mix on the pedals instead.

The buffer on/off is only for the bypass and I also preferred it set for true bypass, but never concerned myself with it when I have fx on.

I hate the dry signal changing when you add the effect because Often I run fx pretty low in the mix. Also I want my preamp sound not to be degraded. The Axe DAC is pretty good but I want it to blend like my 2290 did and with these things it just doesn’t.
TBH I don’t like the way Strymon changes the dry tone when you turn on the pedals. I heard it first on the El Cap and then the Flint . A tiny but annoying eq change that sounds like a bbe on a low setting.
This is super picky but as you may have guessed that’s me.

 

[Eagle]

Oh and the Mini mix seems to be able to do it but it’s mono.

 

[laxu]

I hate the dry signal changing when you add the effect because Often I run fx pretty low in the mix. Also I want my preamp sound not to be degraded. The Axe DAC is pretty good but I want it to blend like my 2290 did and with these things it just doesn’t.
TBH I don’t like the way Strymon changes the dry tone when you turn on the pedals. I heard it first on the El Cap and then the Flint . A tiny but annoying eq change that sounds like a bbe on a low setting.
This is super picky but as you may have guessed that’s me.

I guess ignorance truly is bliss because I just never notice any of this, and my pedalboard is several Strymons (all newer though in case you are referring to V1 El Cap/Flint) both before amp input and a couple in the fx loop.

Never had any complaints using the Axe-Fx 3, or Helix Floor in the fx loop of my amps either as long as the levels were set right.

 

[Eagle]

The annoying part is old rack units with dry pass could do this . The old black face intelifex was actually really good and transparent to the dry like the 2290. But as I said my old valves mixer was way better than modern stuff is on your direct sound. The Eventide pedals took a nosedive in sound quality from the factor to the H9 and 90. There is a fake sheen that appears on everything the moment it’s on. I can only use them in a mixer.
There is this wrong impression that DACs are good enough now and universal level is good enough. Or that dry pass is not coloured and true bypass is by itself transparent.
There was a reason Dumble built the Dumblator to integrate fx even in his own design of amp .
Sadly this whole thing has been systematically dumbed down by ever more convenient gear that offers everything in one place but it is at a cost .

 

[2112]

I don't have my notes in front of me but when I measured the frequency response of my 2290 dry it wasn't flat; it actually boosted the highs from around 8-10khz by a few dB.

The preamp in old DDL based delays often double up as a nice crunch into a semi dirty amp too.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The preamp in old DDL based delays often double up as a nice crunch into a semi dirty amp too.

PCM42

 

[OrganicZed]

My rack rig:

 

[Eagle]

My rack rig:

View attachment 34238

That's great stuff. Do you use the axe in to the 2/90/2?