The Rack Thread

[Whizzinby]

@Whizzinby I know Eagle already gave me his insight but how do you think the 88 compares to the SLO30? If you can remember

It’s been a couple years since I had the SLO30, but…

Better

• Clean channel. The Altered mode gives a different cool variant. I love both modes.
• Versatility. Can go direct. Can easily integrate with other sources: power amps, amp returns, modelers.
• No shared EQs. Though the SLO isn’t exactly a tweakers amp.
• If you fall into the spiritual camp, it’s the friggin purple rack

Equal

• Lead channel. It’s the SLO lead channel.

Up for debate

• Crunch channel gets gained up way earlier than what I remember on the SLO30. On the 30, it was the last 1/3rd of the dial where it started to get really dirty, on the x88 it wants to go hard after about 10oclock. I set mine to just where it opens up. If it had about 10-20% more play early in the dial it would be perfect. But it’s honestly input dependent. I’ve fallen back in love with my RG and those pickups are hot as shit. There is a lot more gain play when I use my strat. But generally speaking I think the crunch channel just wants to go hard in the paint, which is fine because it does that cool thing of getting the muscular SLO sound just without that blanket of mid saturation like the lead channel.

 

[Whizzinby]

Here's a playlist of a bunch of rack demos I've done over the years

Dude my Reverb watch list is getting scary

 

[2112]

@Whizzinby honestly at the current prices most vintage rack stuff isn't worth the absolute PITA they take to get routed into a rig and maintained. Synergy + Fractal is such a more powerful, consistent, convenient and flexible rig.

Sincerely,
The guy who contributed to old rack gear being massively overpriced.

 

[KingsXJJ]

@Whizzinby is like my own personal Synergy Crack dealer. Every time he posts about it I think yeah, I should do that.

 

[OrganicZed]

I seriously recommend you try comparing the feel and tone without the axe to using it as a looper as well as the fx .

As much as I love my Axe-FX, there is no question that my preamps (Fryette GP/DI and GP3) sound a bit different in the in 4CM with everything bypassed compared to plugging straight in. There's a slight loss in high end response and the dynamic range feels slightly lessened. Fractal does a good job and it is much more transparent than using a traditional pedal board, but the absolute best overall tone I get with them is when I plug directly into the preamp and then run the Axe-FX for post effects only.

 

[Eagle]

Dude my Reverb watch list is getting scary

PCM and 2290 had and still have a reason for their reputation.

 

[Eagle]

My friend has 2 M4s an X99 a GT trio and a formula. He has a lot of modules for the M4 one a couple of Synergy ones too.

 

[Whizzinby]

As much as I love my Axe-FX, there is no question that my preamps (Fryette GP/DI and GP3) sound a bit different in the in 4CM with everything bypassed compared to plugging straight in. There's a slight loss in high end response and the dynamic range feels slightly lessened. Fractal does a good job and it is much more transparent than using a traditional pedal board, but the absolute best overall tone I get with them is when I plug directly into the preamp and then run the Axe-FX for post effects only.

Yeah I think analog comps and drives into the front of an analog preamp is markedly better then doing the digital drive thing and 4CM. Something gets lost in the process. It’s either better to go all-in totally digital or push digital down the chain in the loop or post from my experience.

 

[gearJunkie]

My rack rig hasn't changed in 20+ years. Mesa Boogie Triaxis into Two:Ninety power amp, with a Rocktron Intellifex in the loop, out to a stereo Marshall 6960B cabinet. All of it is MIDI controlled by the original Ground Control 1.0.

No need to mess with perfection.

 

[Desertdweller]

@Whizzinby honestly at the current prices most vintage rack stuff isn't worth the absolute PITA they take to get routed into a rig and maintained. Synergy + Fractal is such a more powerful, consistent, convenient and flexible rig.

Sincerely,
The guy who contributed to old rack gear being massively overpriced.

Agreed 100%. I'm in my mid 40s now and I used to play a ton of gigs back in the 2000s and 2010s, and the only reason I keep a more retro rack rig is because I'm just so damn familiar with the 2:90 and the G-Force as they were in my rig with different preamps for decades. An Axe FX III and a SD700, or even better, a Fryette LXII, gets you there with way better simplicity.

So yes, I'm a glutton for punishment, but hey these were my rigs throughout the years:

 

[Eagle]

Love the Triaxis Gfoorce rig. I had that with a G major 2 for a while. I thought the G system sucked though. The front end loops sucked tone and were unusable for me.

 

[Eagle]

Power conditioners
What one and why ?
Is a more expensive one necessary? Why and what can happen without one?
Electrical engineers help us identify the glorified power strips from functionality that is actually worth having.

 

[aivoryuk]

You can hear the effect of the DAC in the Axe 3 when in a series loop for fx only . It detracts from the feel and sound of the dry signal.

Can you explain this a little more?
I currently use my synergy rack into the FM3 for IR and Post effects.

 

[Eagle]

Can you explain this a little more?
I currently use my synergy rack into the FM3 for IR and Post effects.

If you have a tube power amp or even the return in of an fx loop of a tube amp plug the synergy directly in to that with nothing else. That is what your dry signal should sound like. Then put the fm3 in the loop and hear the difference. A golden rule with any effect processor is when it is in series set to full bypass does it sound any different to just a cable in the loop? If it does then you should seriously consider a parallel mixer and use the fx on kill dry mixed with the analog dry signal on the mixer.
In my experience most if not all DACs ruin the last 5% of what made your amp so good in the first place. It won’t be terrible but it will be more dynamic 3D and responsive with 100% analog dry through.
Also even if a pedal or processor says it is analog dry through still compare it on bypass to a cable. You will be shocked as to how bad a lot of high end gear is at this.
The old TC G system was a complete POS if you used the front end loop switches.
The patchmate was also crazy bad unless you used buffers.
Not many switching systems are capable of transparently adding high impedance fx in front of your amp midi switchable without a buffer.
All this is one reason people left rack in the first place.
A few analog pedals in front and something time based in a parallel loop of a tube amp sounded better. This was not because the rack preamp and power amp where inferior it was the other parts.
This catalog of routing problems led to awful products like the BBE sonic mono sodium glutamate starting to appear. This is a dumb way to fix the problem. A bit like drawing on the details on a photo that is out of focus instead of focusing it in the first place.

 

[Eagle]

In modern day pedal boards, the complex ones we have actually had to solve most of the problems that made rack go away in the first instance and applied them to an amp head ,also building full midi fx processors in pedal formats instead of rackmount but essentially the same . However the lack of metered input gain controls and proper level matching is a step backward and is not good at preserving the signal to noise ratio through most fx loops.
Special mention to Dan at Gig rig for fixing the front end problem in his excellent products.
But we have ended up with huge complex routing systems that are the same as old racks on the floor in front of you and vulnerable which was the very first reason racks came about. The whole point was everything in one case behind you and a foot controller only on the floor that your signal didn't go through.
I am very happy to see rack return but at the moment there aren't many options for rack mounted FX processors dedicated to the needs of guitar and none of them have analog dry so we are back to mixers.

 

[aivoryuk]

If you have a tube power amp or even the return in of an fx loop of a tube amp plug the synergy directly in to that with nothing else. That is what your dry signal should sound like. Then put the fm3 in the loop and hear the difference. A golden rule with any effect processor is when it is in series set to full bypass does it sound any different to just a cable in the loop? If it does then you should seriously consider a parallel mixer and use the fx on kill dry mixed with the analog dry signal on the mixer.
In my experience most if not all DACs ruin the last 5% of what made your amp so good in the first place. It won’t be terrible but it will be more dynamic 3D and responsive with 100% analog dry through.
Also even if a pedal or processor says it is analog dry through still compare it on bypass to a cable. You will be shocked as to how bad a lot of high end gear is at this.
The old TC G system was a complete POS if you used the front end loop switches.
The patchmate was also crazy bad unless you used buffers.
Not many switching systems are capable of transparently adding high impedance fx in front of your amp midi switchable without a buffer.
All this is one reason people left rack in the first place.
A few analog pedals in front and something time based in a parallel loop of a tube amp sounded better. This was not because the rack preamp and power amp where inferior it was the other parts.
This catalog of routing problems led to awful products like the BBE sonic mono sodium glutamate starting to appear. This is a dumb way to fix the problem. A bit like drawing on the details on a photo that is out of focus instead of focusing it in the first place.

yup that is what I thought you were referring to - thanks

 

[Baba]

I have a Carvin TS100 on the way to me, from a trade at TOP. I plan on either:

1. Using it with my Peavey Rockmaster preamp, either at home, or maybe at gigs.
2. Using it with a Synergy SYN-2, and a couple of modules.
3. Letting a friend of mine use it with his Uberschall module at home.

I know there are better power amps out there, but this was a trade, etc.

 

[Desertdweller]

If you have a tube power amp or even the return in of an fx loop of a tube amp plug the synergy directly in to that with nothing else. That is what your dry signal should sound like. Then put the fm3 in the loop and hear the difference. A golden rule with any effect processor is when it is in series set to full bypass does it sound any different to just a cable in the loop? If it does then you should seriously consider a parallel mixer and use the fx on kill dry mixed with the analog dry signal on the mixer.
In my experience most if not all DACs ruin the last 5% of what made your amp so good in the first place. It won’t be terrible but it will be more dynamic 3D and responsive with 100% analog dry through.

I agree with everything you said here.

Also even if a pedal or processor says it is analog dry through still compare it on bypass to a cable. You will be shocked as to how bad a lot of high end gear is at this.
The old TC G system was a complete POS if you used the front end loop switches.

I think you’re overstating it. I used the G System live for a long time and it was great. Pete Thorn used the G System live for a long time and loved it. Did it have some tone suck? Yeah, but only I was going to notice it with mine. My band mates thought my effects on my leads sounded awesome and that was what mattered to me. Back in 2018 when the Boss MS3 came out, it was better than the G System with less tone suck, then the HX Effects came out and basically solved the issues. If only the HX effects had the reverbs of the fractal units I’d have never sold mine.

This catalog of routing problems led to awful products like the BBE sonic mono sodium glutamate starting to appear. This is a dumb way to fix the problem.

Agreed 100%. The sonic maximizer thing sounds amazing the first time you use it, then after you use it for a longer period of time you eventually start turning the knobs to zero, and eventually take it out of your rig because you realize it’s just thinning out your sound and giving you ear fatigue.

I am very happy to see rack return but at the moment there aren't many options for rack mounted FX processors dedicated to the needs of guitar and none of them have analog dry so we are back to mixers.

I want TC or Digitech (they own the old Lexicon brand, right?) to come out with a modern 1U rack effects processor. It will never happen, but I would love to see it.

 

[Blix]

Digitech (they own the old Lexicon brand, right?

Nope, they used to be under the same parent company (Harman), but Digitech is owned by Cortek now.

 

[Eagle]

I agree with everything you said here.



I think you’re overstating it. I used the G System live for a long time and it was great. Pete Thorn used the G System live for a long time and loved it. Did it have some tone suck? Yeah, but only I was going to notice it with mine. My band mates thought my effects on my leads sounded awesome and that was what mattered to me. Back in 2018 when the Boss MS3 came out, it was better than the G System with less tone suck, then the HX Effects came out and basically solved the issues. If only the HX effects had the reverbs of the fractal units I’d have never sold mine.


Agreed 100%. The sonic maximizer thing sounds amazing the first time you use it, then after you use it for a longer period of time you eventually start turning the knobs to zero, and eventually take it out of your rig because you realize it’s just thinning out your sound and giving you ear fatigue.


I want TC or Digitech (they own the old Lexicon brand, right?) to come out with a modern 1U rack effects processor. It will never happen, but I would love to see it.

If you have buffered pedals in the front loops it’s passable but not great. But it annoyed the fuck out of me . Mine went straight back.