The Rack Thread

[Eagle]

The other problem in the past was power amps. You needed a high end power stage that suited and did justice to the preamp you had just bought. Then series fx processors with dry through. It was impossible to skimp anywhere and it not ruin everything. This is before the utter garbage all in one boxes that started to appear plugged in the front end of Peavy combos in a pub near you. This all contributed to the end of the rack the first time.

 

[Baba]

The other problem in the past was power amps. You needed a high end power stage that suited and did justice to the preamp you had just bought. Then series fx processors with dry through. It was impossible to skimp anywhere and it not ruin everything. This is before the utter garbage all in one boxes that started to appear plugged in the front end of Peavy combos in a pub near you. This all contributed to the end of the rack the first time.

Meh, not for me. It was the weight and size, and versatility of the newer pieces coming out. Also, the music. Starting in the early 90's, the sound was grungy, and you could get it with a couple of pedals and an amp. It suddenly wasn't cool to use a rack anymore.

In 1996, I went from a 12 space ADA MP-1 based rig, to a 4 space rack that only had a Rocktron Chameleon, a wireless, and a (SS) power amp, and I didn't have that long, before I bought a Line 6 AX2-212, which sounded as good.

 

[Elric]

I currently have a version of this. I have the balanced out of the x88 to the Axe, x88 unbalanced out to the LXII, the Syn and Suhr RL going to the last two Axe inputs 3 and 4. The only issue is I still have to manually re-wire when I want to connect the Syn to LXII. Axe direct to LXII or run the x88 to Axe unbalanced.

Thinking about it more though, I’m probably underestimating my ability to create a MEGA preset within the Axe to get me about 85% there. Just connect two outputs in the Axe, one going to monitors and one to the LXII, and rather than connecting any preamps or gear to the LXII, have everything feed to it from the Axe. Then it’s just a matter of choosing which 3 of the 4 inputs devices I want wired to the Axe inputs 2-4. (Since In1 is an instrument input) Might work, and then when I want to use the RL I can just manually plug it in.

Would just require a preset with 3 input blocks and 2 output blocks, and then using scenes to enable - disable whichever IO I’m using. And thinking even further I could use the FC12 to cycle through the scenes, as well as switch Tube Pre types, Cab/IRs and not be tied to the editor.

Of course that does mean I’m tied to the AxeFx for everything, but I suppose that’s not a terrible thing. (This setup would require a rethink if I added another piece of gear in the future)

Yeah, no need for anything but the Axe to connect to the power amp; IMHO. I use the Axe to MIDI control everything else too. MIDI Control block is awesome.

 

[Elric]

Meh, not for me. It was the weight and size, and versatility of the newer pieces coming out. Also, the music. Starting in the early 90's, the sound was grungy, and you could get it with a couple of pedals and an amp. It suddenly wasn't cool to use a rack anymore.

Yes, this x1000. Had nothing to do with gear getting consolidated. Sh*t was heavy/cumbersome and grunge had a low tech aesthetic. Had nothing to do w/. anything else. Anyone claiming otherwise is talking absolute nonsense.

F*ck, I had an 1U noise gate in my rack back in the day, imagine that waste of space and weight that was; everything was stand alone and that was a bad thing, consolidation was a step in the right direction but it was too little, too late.

 

[Elric]

@Whizzinby honestly at the current prices most vintage rack stuff isn't worth the absolute PITA they take to get routed into a rig and maintained. Synergy + Fractal is such a more powerful, consistent, convenient and flexible rig.

Sincerely,
The guy who contributed to old rack gear being massively overpriced.

Yup, Axe III + A preamp or two >= forty tons of 90s rack gear.

 

[Eagle]

View attachment IMG_4130.jpeg

 

[aivoryuk]

Yeah I think analog comps and drives into the front of an analog preamp is markedly better then doing the digital drive thing and 4CM. Something gets lost in the process. It’s either better to go all-in totally digital or push digital down the chain in the loop or post from my experience.

this is my thinking as well, so I'm putting together an analog only pedal board.

it will consist of a MXR 10 band EQ (I took all the Led's out because they are soo bright but they also add some noise as well) -> Wampler ego 76 compressor (i'm using this mainly as a boost into the front end of the Synergy for some modules like the Deliverance) -> Dunlop wah -> MXR phase 90

I'm not big into drive pedals as like to get my sound from the preamp and the choices I have more than enough gain.

 

[laxu]

Yeah I think analog comps and drives into the front of an analog preamp is markedly better then doing the digital drive thing and 4CM. Something gets lost in the process. It’s either better to go all-in totally digital or push digital down the chain in the loop or post from my experience.

I don't agree with this. My main drive pedal these days is the Strymon Riverside and IMO its digital nature is not noticeable at all. I was also happily using the Helix Floor for drives and ended up selling my analog drive pedals because comparing them in Helix loops, or direct into the tube amp, I could get the same end result to my ears.

IMO digital conversion is a total non-issue with the high quality of modern converters, and I have no problem using multiple digital Strymons before my amp, and in its fx loop. But of course, not all digital devices are built equal...

Fuzz is the only drive type that I would say is still not done 100% right by digital.

As for rack gear, that format quickly gets out of hand when everything is 2U+ size. It mainly makes sense for studios, or professional touring rigs where roadies wheel a rack box to the side of the stage instead of you trying to haul it up the stairs of the local small venue.

They do look helluva cool though!

 

[Eagle]

I don't agree with this. My main drive pedal these days is the Strymon Riverside and IMO its digital nature is not noticeable at all. I was also happily using the Helix Floor for drives and ended up selling my analog drive pedals because comparing them in Helix loops, or direct into the tube amp, I could get the same end result to my ears.

IMO digital conversion is a total non-issue with the high quality of modern converters, and I have no problem using multiple digital Strymons before my amp, and in its fx loop. But of course, not all digital devices are built equal...

Fuzz is the only drive type that I would say is still not done 100% right by digital.

As for rack gear, that format quickly gets out of hand when everything is 2U+ size. It mainly makes sense for studios, or professional touring rigs where roadies wheel a rack box to the side of the stage instead of you trying to haul it up the stairs of the local small venue.

They do look helluva cool though!

Put a DAC is an all analogy rig and it kills 5% at least . It takes the best part of your sound and dynamics . Add one to an already compromised signal and it hardly make any difference.

 

[laxu]

Put a DAC is an all analogy rig and it kills 5% at least . It takes the best part of your sound and dynamics . Add one to an already compromised signal and it hardly make any difference.

Does not match my experience at all. While digital will add a little bit of latency and that can be felt, it's a total non-issue for what you get in return (all the fx and whatnot).

I don't know how I'd have a compromised signal with the guitar -> Bogner tube amp -> 4x10 cab I had back when I tested this out. With my current BluGuitar rig it's also not a problem I hear despite having way more digital pedals (mostly Strymons) in the chain, of course not all enabled at once.

But maybe a discussion best left for something other than the rack thread.

 

[aivoryuk]

I don't agree with this. My main drive pedal these days is the Strymon Riverside and IMO its digital nature is not noticeable at all. I was also happily using the Helix Floor for drives and ended up selling my analog drive pedals because comparing them in Helix loops, or direct into the tube amp, I could get the same end result to my ears.

IMO digital conversion is a total non-issue with the high quality of modern converters, and I have no problem using multiple digital Strymons before my amp, and in its fx loop. But of course, not all digital devices are built equal...

Maybe not conversion but latency might be an issue with multiple devices chained together.

 

[laxu]

Maybe not conversion but latency might be an issue with multiple devices chained together.

Depends on the latency of said devices. Multiple UA pedals at 2.4ms each? Adds up quick. Multiple Strymons at 1ms each? Not so much.

 

[Whizzinby]

I don't agree with this. My main drive pedal these days is the Strymon Riverside and IMO its digital nature is not noticeable at all. I was also happily using the Helix Floor for drives and ended up selling my analog drive pedals because comparing them in Helix loops, or direct into the tube amp, I could get the same end result to my ears.

I owned a Riverside. Good pedal and probably the best of the digital drive pedals I’ve tried. Really versatile.

It’s always pedal/rig dependent, but I generally don’t like digital drives and fuzzes in front of an amp, something inevitably gets lost to the overall tone/feel. And it only gets exacerbated if you’re also running digital post in 4CM. I stopped running my JC in 4CM with the AxeFx because of it. A comp and drive pedal up front and then digital in the loop inevitably always works better in a hybrid setup for me. (Fully noting this is like talking about shades of grey, and you can always get usable tones in any setup)

As for rack gear, that format quickly gets out of hand when everything is 2U+ size. It mainly makes sense for studios, or professional touring rigs where roadies wheel a rack box to the side of the stage instead of you trying to haul it up the stairs of the local small venue.

This is a rack thread Laxu, I’m pretty sure we understand the format. There are plenty of Micro-Pedal-I’ve-Given-Up-On-LifeTM threads elsewhere for everyone else.

 

[Desertdweller]

This is what made the Lexicon MPX G2 so interesting. You ran it in 4CM and the drives and such out front were analog and the effects in the loop were digital.

IMO it’s still the gold standard for 1U rack effects units.

 

[JiveTurkey]

This is what made the Lexicon MPX G2 so interesting. You ran it in 4CM and the drives and such out front were analog and the effects in the loop were digital.

IMO it’s still the gold standard for 1U rack effects units.

I wish there was a pool (really anything?) of current 1u stuff we could choose from.

 

[2112]

A few rack units worthy of mention for features that are now essential on many pedals & modellers;
*Analog dry through - Rocktron Intellifex
*Programmable relay switching - TC G Major
*Modular "grid" routing - TC Fireworx/G-Force
*Gapless switching - Digitech 2120
*Programmable FX loops - TC2290
*4CM operation - Lex MPX G2/TC G System
*Diatonic harmonizer - Eventide H3000

 

[Desertdweller]

*Programmable relay switching - TC G Major

IDK why Fractal left this off their current gen units. This is plus the stereo 4CM makes the HX Effects arguably more useful, though lower sonic fidelity, than the VP4.

 

[Eagle]

IDK why Fractal left this off their current gen units. This is plus the stereo 4CM makes the HX Effects arguably more useful, though lower sonic fidelity, than the VP4.

You can hear the effect of Axe in the signal chain when used fx only without a mixer. You need to decide whether it is worth using in this way because it is detrimental to your dry signal. I actually think axe sounds it’s best when using it for everything and amplifying it with high end studio monitors.

 

[Eagle]

Meh, not for me. It was the weight and size, and versatility of the newer pieces coming out. Also, the music. Starting in the early 90's, the sound was grungy, and you could get it with a couple of pedals and an amp. It suddenly wasn't cool to use a rack anymore.

In 1996, I went from a 12 space ADA MP-1 based rig, to a 4 space rack that only had a Rocktron Chameleon, a wireless, and a (SS) power amp, and I didn't have that long, before I bought a Line 6 AX2-212, which sounded as good.

I wouldn’t give the AX2-212 skip space. But it is on a par with the Chameleon.

 

[Desertdweller]

You can hear the effect of Axe in the signal chain when used fx only without a mixer. You need to decide whether it is worth using in this way because it is detrimental to your dry signal. I actually think axe sounds it’s best when using it for everything and amplifying it with high end studio monitors.

I love using the Axe FX for effects only. Steve Vai and John Petrucci do it this way too along with a lot of other touring musicians.