The Fractal FM3 Sucks (Kind of)

[Orvillain]

Yknow, just going back over the thread, and thinking about a few things that happened recently.... and this always happens. People identify some workflow issues with the Fractal stuff, and even when it is done in the mildest of tones, loads of defenders jump in to say you're an idiot for not bothering to figure out how the thing works.

Despite the fact that we HAVE figured out how it works. I'm as pro as anyone else at using the Axe FX III. Doesn't mean I enjoy it.

Then you get things like... well.. I requested that block presets be storable on the hardware the other week. A few people jumped in to say the Axe doesn't do it, and to use Axe Edit. Like ... the whole fucking point of a wishlist is to ask for things that currently aren't possible.

This is starting to be a pet peeve of mine, and I'm pretty sure Cliff and the team appreciate well thought out and well reasoned wishes and requests, more than outright sycophancy.

Yeah. I said it.

The tones are unparalleled. The workflow is not unparalleled.

 

[the-trooper]

Yeah. I said it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yknow, just going back over the thread, and thinking about a few things that happened recently.... and this always happens. People identify some workflow issues with the Fractal stuff, and even when it is done in the mildest of tones, loads of defenders jump in to say you're an idiot for not bothering to figure out how the thing works.

Ah well - not related to this thread but defenitely related to that issue, so there...
As you may know, global blocks are something I think each and every modeler (at least the advanced ones) should have. For good reasons. Good reasons that I can explain very detailed, so you'd think it'd be absolutely clear why I wanted them so badly.
And yet, typical replies usually are like:

"Well, if you need to tweak your patches at a soundcheck/gig, you don't know how to program things properly!" Yeah, sure. As if I'd be able to make my living by live playing without knowing how to come up with at least a half decent sound. Fwiw, usually this is coming from folks playing live like once a year or so (or even not at all).

"Hey, you do know we have favourites now, why don't you use them instead?" <Sigh> I mean, I could as well have not explained why global blocks are great AT ALL in case someone still thinks they should compare their potential functionality with goddamn sub-presets!

This is as well why I don't get it how people are comparing these days' tools with digital devices from 35 years ago. Yes, it's been horrible back then and we were still clever enough as a species to deal with it. So, does that mean we should give up on all improvements? Because that's the only logical conclusion. I'm pretty sure people coming up with such comparisons aren't using smartphones at all, either, correct?

 

[mbenigni]

I have an HX Stomp and I love it. I am happy with the tones, the UI, everything about it. It covers 99+% of my needs. So why am I considering spending a thousand more on an FM3?

I just was going through a list of the amps and presets in the fractal. Is there even any sort of categorization happening in this thing? It doesn’t even look like fender amps are grouped together, just randomly mixed into the list with everything else in fuck all order?

I just watched a video of a guy building a patch on the FM3 without the editor. Looks like I will have to press about 10x as many buttons as on the stomp. For some reason I’m still interested. Searing GAS pain.

Standard issue FOMO. Buy an FM3 to get a taste; sell if it doesn't blow your socks off. Get it out of your system.

FWIW, the Fractal "ecosystem" does have some amazing amps and effects, but your observations above are 100% accurate. How heavily one will weigh vs. the other depends on your ears and your tolerance for janky UI.

 

[mbenigni]

Modern humans, "I don't like it. Can someone not named me fix it with
no cost or effort to myself."

It's not like anyone is proposing that things be improved only for their own sake.

 

[OrganicZed]

@Orvillain You have observed correctly. People don't like it when you point out flaws in their favorite things even when you are well meaning. It seems to be a nearly universal human shortcoming.

I've seen it happen several times. The cycle goes like this:
1. Someone makes a forum post about how a particular model doesn't sound right.
2. They get flamed by a bunch of people saying that they're wrong or that they just aren't dialing it in correctly or that their amp isn't going to sound like the reference amp and so on.
3. After some discussion Cliff replies and agrees that there was an issue stating that it has been addressed for the next firmware release.
4. Everyone praises the Fractal team for how much better the model is now that it has been corrected.

@NKP has lived through that cycle a few times with regard to the JP IIC model and the related shred boost.

From what I have seen, good faith constructive criticism is appreciated and welcomed by the development team at Fractal even though it may be met with derision by the fanbois. The awkwardness of the current UI has been a constant point of feedback from many users to Fractal. It is my hope that the next generation of hardware will get a major overhaul in this area. That said, Cliff seems to like the current interface and he gets the final say in all of this, so it may never change.

That said, no one likes the broken record routine. It is my understanding that FAS refused for many years to model a Klon largely because there was a particularly entitled and annoying forum poster who kept insisting that they had to add that model. I have a feeling that the same story is playing out with regard to the DC30 jumped model currently. If you want your concern addressed, the best bet is to state it clearly and politely and then move on.

 

[DrewJD82]

Funny, I just read over the whole thread, saw a bunch of posts saying “getting called an idiot for not knowing the UI”, but didn’t see a single post calling anyone an idiot the entire thread.

 

[mbenigni]

100%. It’s a common refrain. “Dumbed down” “Fischer price toy” “my first modeler” and all that bullshit. It’s a terrible UI, full stop. That doesn’t mean it can’t be used, but by any reasonable modern standard it’s a complete pain in the ass to use, and few give a shit that it may be easier to use than some other archaic piece of equipment from years past.

You can love Fractal gear while still highlighting clear and obvious flaws.

Pet peeve of mine as well. And the recurring notion that you couldn't possibly present all the complexity of FAS deep editing, etc. with a more usable UI. Bullshit. The problems with the FAS UI have nothing to do with the amount of content or number of controls available. They have to do with physical controls and presentation (organization, primarily.)

Yes, yes, I'm the A.I.T.R. who turns every thread into a QC discussion; sue me. But whenever someone implies that making a better UI is impossible, I think, with only a couple of caveats, it's already been done. Say what you will about QC reliability, support, noise floor, whatever... the UI is sensible, flat and about as "What manual? I didn't even know I had one" as you're going to find. Copying and pasting a summary I PM'd to a famous poultry-based board member last week:

The QC touchscreen is amazing. Seriously... On QC, the screen serves 5 simple purposes, all available at any time with a single touch or gesture:

1. Main view: your preset with all its devices and routing. Drag shit around; Bob=uncle.
2. (Touch the top menu.) Display content: presets, devices, captures.
3. (Touch a device block.) Display device params. Usually all of them. With killer encoders right below.
4. (Swipe down from the top.) Display all the I/O, with graphics, and params presented just like the effects blocks.
5. (Swipe up from the bottom.) Display the Stomp/ Scene/ Preset footswitch information, with easy editing including a QWERTY keyboard.

That's pretty much it. No manual diving, no PC editor software, etc. All that extra time to chew bubblegum and play guitars and I just ran out of bubblegum. I really don't think of it as being dumbed down so much as a "less is more" thing. It's just a smart, flat UI that gets a lot done with very little bullshit. (Never perfect, of course. I still think the way you search for Captures is a little weird/ inconsistent, and yeah the foot switching - if you're going to use it - is a bit limited.)

I can't think of anything I'd change, except that when the QC presents its Captures, searching should be easier. As for "it's an easy UI because the QC is dumbed down and has no deep editing", again, BS. Item 3 already presents enumerated tabs when parameter counts exceed what can be fit on one screen. All you'd need to do is add more tabs, fill them with additional power tube selections and impedance curves and whatever else gets your propeller caps spinning. Same said for item 4 if the current Global Settings lack any significant features.

I know some people hate touchscreens because they were born with rubber chickens instead of hands or whatever, but big touchscreens present a LOT of information at a glance, and facilitate gesture-based edits in a way that perfectly suits building a virtual pedal board. If touchscreens aren't responsive for you (not my own personal experience on QC), don't reject touchscreens - demand better ones!

 

[Orvillain]

Funny, I just read over the whole thread, saw a bunch of posts saying “getting called an idiot for not knowing the UI”, but didn’t see a single post calling anyone an idiot the entire thread.

Oh right. I guess it literally never happens then.

 

[SeeD]

Would it help to adress this on the Fractal Forum ?
Maybe make a Poll ?

 

[DrewJD82]

Oh right. I guess it literally never happens then.

I’d actually find it entertaining to see actual proof of it.

At this point, I do believe it’s a thing much like was seen in the TMP thread at TGP-

“This isn’t the most accurate way of modeling an amp”

”WHY ARE YOU SAYING WE’RE IDIOTS BECAUSE WE LIKE THE TMP?!”

 

[Tanax]

Obviously you've never had to program a rack mount multi effects unit? Fractal is way easier.

Take a few days and actually learn how to use the hardware. It's really not that hard, no matter how many people like to claim contrary...

Funny, I just read over the whole thread, saw a bunch of posts saying “getting called an idiot for not knowing the UI”, but didn’t see a single post calling anyone an idiot the entire thread.

It's literally there in the first page?

Look, I don't think @Orvillain meant being outright called an idiot, but more the general type of replies you get with trying to suggest these types of changes/improvements, as well as insinuating that the problem lies with YOU rather than the software, you just need to take the time to "learn" it.

 

[Orvillain]

I’d actually find it entertaining to see actual proof of it.

At this point, I do believe it’s a thing much like was seen in the TMP thread at TGP-

“This isn’t the most accurate way of modeling an amp”

”WHY ARE YOU SAYING WE’RE IDIOTS BECAUSE WE LIKE THE TMP?!”

If you're gonna be so literal and matter of fact Drew, we can't be friends anymore.

 

[Achilles]

Question: Why can't they work on an improved UI?

Answer: Cause they don't cater to the instant gratification noob crowd with Fisher Price type joysticks.

Translation: What are you, a flipping idiot? Be a man god damn it and RTFM!

 

[JiveTurkey]

"Take a few days and actually learn how to use the hardware. It's really not that hard, no matter how many people like to claim contrary..."= calling someone an idiot?


Hmmm.

 

[JiveTurkey]

If you want the king of UIs; just grab a Helix something or other. At this point; FAS could do zero to the sounds in the next generation and focus on solely on these kinds of items for the next iteration and still be ahead of the pack to my ears and tastes. And I hope they do.

 

[Stratzrus]

There's no doubt that the UI could be improved, just like how other things are improved with firmware releases.

It's also true that many are comfortable using the UI as it is, despite the fact that some things could be made easier to use.

Fractal's priority has been on improving the firmware with one major UI upgrade between the II and the III.

Concrete suggestions about changes that can be made to improve the UI experience are helpful, endless carping about the UI not so much.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Some of y'all never used an AX8 and it shows

 

[LP59]

There's no doubt that the UI could be improved, just like how other things are improved with firmware releases.

It's also true that many are comfortable using the UI as it is, despite the fact that some things could be made easier to use.

Fractal's priority has been on improving the firmware with one major UI upgrade between the II and the III.

Concrete suggestions about changes that can be made to improve the UI experience are helpful, endless carping about the UI not so much.

As people keep saying, the Helix is a concrete example of how to do a onboard UI without a touchscreen.

The editor could also use a modernization. It’s been years since it’s had a notable update.

 

[Orvillain]

endless carping about the UI not so much.

Ohhhh... so now we're supposed to be fish people?!?!