The Fractal FM3 Sucks (Kind of)

[Orvillain]

I think the lowest-hanging fruit for Fractal is just cleaning up the nonsensical navigation/UI decisions in the current gen of devices that require no new hardware, joystick or touchscreen whatsoever.

I half-joked some months back about the dumpster fire that is....moving a block on the unit to another location. The FM3/FM9/Axe-FX III all have pressable main encoders and directional arrow buttons. One would think that would be all you need to select a block, move it to the location on the grid of choice, and then deselect it so it can stay there permanently.

Nope. Once you get to the block, you have to page over until you reach the Tools tab, then twist the encoder to select "Move right" or "Move left" (instead of actually moving it with the gotdamn arrows!) and then you have to press a different encoder to select Execute, where it will do that action....once.

@Orvillain and @Whizzinby have also detailed dunderheaded use cases of the same ilk in posts #148 and #62 in this thread, respectively.

Call it the Nav Simplification update or whatever....but there's just no reason for this sort of inanity to plague an otherwise deity-tiered device for this long.

It has only just dawned on me.... there is no way to select a block and then use the up/down/left/right arrows to move it around. That is.... odd!

Select block. Press the rotary encoder. Use arrows.

It really could be that simple!! I've just tried it, and on the layout view nothing is assigned to encoder click. So there is a free function there to enable this to happen.

TO THE WISHLIST MAZE!

 

[aflynt]

I think the hardware UI being completely different from the desktop editor causes a lot of cognitive dissonance for people. It totally makes sense why they are different, and I like that they are optimized for the IO/Compute constraints of each, but in practice going from one to the other can be annoying af. I don't think people will stop ripping on the UI as long as they are different, or until there is a practical solution for using the desktop editor in a gig/rehearsal situation.

-Aaron

 

[Orvillain]

Wish - Workflow improvement - select a block and move it with arrow keys

Go to either layout view. Go to a block to highlight it. Push big rotary encoder. (nothing currently assigned to this command from what I can see) Block is selected. Use left/right/up/down keys to move the block around the layout. Press encoder again to drop it.

forum.fractalaudio.com

G'wan! Vote up 'bunions' !

And if @unix_guy jumps in and says to use Axe Edit, I'm gonna flip the table!!!

 

[Stratzrus]

Say all you want about reading the manual, learn how to use it etc, but at the end of the day unless you hook it up to a computer and spend hours programming it, only to be locked into those sounds until you do it all again, it’s a real pain in the arse to use as a music making tool.

I think for those who have spent more time using it, in my case years, it's not a PITA. As aflynt said above, for those who have used the editor extensively, jumping to the UI appears to take more effort and be a source of annoyance.

I haven't used a Helix but have read enough posts from those who have that prevailing wisdom is that it's easier to use. I think that's likely the case for those who went from the Helix to Fractal and those who haven't spent years using the UI.

Could some functions be made easier to use? No doubt. Maybe in time they will. But to me, there's a degree to which this feels like a tempest in a teapot. And as I've stated before, even if there is a major UI revision I'm pretty sure people will continue to complain endlessly if their favorite revision wasn't included.

 

[LP59]

I think for those who have spent more time using it, in my case years, it's not a PITA. As aflynt said above, for those who have used the editor extensively, jumping to the UI appears to take more effort and be a source of annoyance.

I haven't used a Helix but have read enough posts from those who have that prevailing wisdom is that it's easier to use. I think that's likely the case for those who went from the Helix to Fractal and those who haven't spent years using the UI.

Could some functions be made easier to use? No doubt. Maybe in time they will. But to me, there's a degree to which this feels like a tempest in a teapot. And as I've stated before, even if there is a major UI revision I'm pretty sure people will continue to complain endlessly if their favorite revision wasn't included.

So when you said you wanted concrete suggestions, you really meant "it's not that hard".

 

[laxu]

I think for those who have spent more time using it, in my case years, it's not a PITA. As aflynt said above, for those who have used the editor extensively, jumping to the UI appears to take more effort and be a source of annoyance.

I haven't used a Helix but have read enough posts from those who have that prevailing wisdom is that it's easier to use. I think that's likely the case for those who went from the Helix to Fractal and those who haven't spent years using the UI.

I mean it's not like I haven't owned a Fractal since 2009. Seeing that damn navigation layout again in the Axe-Fx 3 was incredibly disappointing for me because I hated operating the older units from the front panel so much.

While current gen is more bearable, it is still not enjoyable. QC was really fun to work with despite its shortcomings. It's why I had difficulty choosing which modeler to keep when I had the QC, FM3 and Helix Floor. FM3 won due to form factor and features.

There's just so many little things Fractal could improve now without making something new. Low hanging fruit like freakin' folders for presets and cabs, and a whole lot more I and others have wishlisted over the years.

So it's frustrating that we have one manufacturer with a great editor, best modeling in the business and great feature set, another with a good onboard UI. One does nothing but modeling updates, the other struggles to get things done and then there is a 3rd manufacturer that sits in between the two but refuses to make the "compact but powerful" unit.

 

[Stratzrus]

So when you said you wanted concrete suggestions, you really meant "it's not that hard".

I never said I wanted concrete suggestions, just that they were more helpful.

And regarding "not that hard", it's relative. Clearly for some it's more frustrating than I find it and it's undeniable that some functions take more steps than they do on other modelers.

What I have been saying is that for some of those who are used to the UI it's not the issue that it is for some others.

 

[Stratzrus]

I mean it's not like I haven't owned a Fractal since 2009. Seeing that damn navigation layout again in the Axe-Fx 3 was incredibly disappointing for me because I hated operating the older units from the front panel so much.

While current gen is more bearable, it is still not enjoyable.

There's just so many little things Fractal could improve now without making something new. Low hanging fruit like freakin' folders for presets and cabs, and a whole lot more I and others have wishlisted over the years.

So it's frustrating that we have one manufacturer with a great editor, best modeling in the business and great feature set, another with a good onboard UI. One does nothing but modeling updates, the other struggles to get things done and then there is a 3rd manufacturer that sits in between the two but refuses to make the "compact but powerful" unit.

Look, I hear you.

And if these posts asking for changes bring about some improvements I'm all for it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

and it's undeniable that some functions take more steps than they do on other modelers.

See, this is all what these things are about. And as a result, these are the questions that should be asked:
- Could things be improved with this hardware incarnation?
- Would improving routine ABC sacrifice the handling of routine XYZ?
- Would improving routine ABC take away whatever useful features?

Very likely the answers would be "yes", "no" and "no" (and defenitely not just for FAS products but for pretty much any modeler out there).

I'm perfectly aware that it's not always all that easy, There's certainly some things that would make life easier for some people while confusing others (the global block functionality I constantly keep bragging about is actually a pretty good example how things could have a decent potential to go wrong quite a bit if not implemented super carefully), but then there's other things that are so obviously convoluted that you could do almost anything and it'd be an improvement.

 

[mikah912]

I never said I wanted concrete suggestions, just that they were more helpful.

And regarding "not that hard", it's relative. Clearly for some it's more frustrating than I find it and it's undeniable that some functions take more steps than they do on other modelers.

What I have been saying is that for some of those who are used to the UI it's not the issue that it is for some others.

I would say I'm used to it having used FM3 and FM9 on and off for three years now (and FM9 straight for the past year or so).

But extra, extra, EXTRA steps for common use cases are an issue regardless of your familiarity with live or practice settings. When you're in the moment with other musicians, it's always a killer to ask people to "hold on" as you're tweaking gear and paging through menus. The difference between 4 and 12-button presses is critical, especially if you need to do it more than once.

How does one "get used to" silliness like having a dedicated button for a function (e.g. arrow keys), but making you page over, scroll through and select that same function from a menu instead?

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw, I think it was @laxu who once nailed it, saying something like: It's not about editing being hard or not, it's about editing being efficient or not.
Having to perform 5 clicks in a certain order isn't hard for most people in case you do it several times every day. But having to perform just 2 clicks for the same operation makes that very operation 2.5 times as efficient without any doubt.

 

[Whizzinby]

How does one "get used to" silliness like having a dedicated button for a function (e.g. arrow keys), but making you page over, scroll through and select that same function from a menu instead?

And all thats assuming you know which arrows to use, since there are page arrow buttons directly under nav arrow buttons.

There are 8 buttons you could click to enter something (Enter, edit, value knob click, A-E knob clicks) not including Home and Store.

And we aren’t talking solely about complex tasks being confusing. We are also talking about basic tasks being non-intuitive. All I wanted was to figure out which Chorus I had loaded and my first three guesses how to do that (Enter, Edit, and value knob click) produced Enter Shuntman, Block selection type, and nothing. As I was shutting it down it dawned on my maybe I should have clicked on the corresponding A-E click knob, but this is sort of the point, that’s not what your intuition would tell you from the available buttons. You’d have to had already burned that into your memory. Which is the crux of it, a lot of this is just brute force memorization. Which is exactly why so many revert to the editor exclusively and don’t force themselves to memorize the panel functions.

Disclaimer: The AxeFX is potentially the best piece of gear I’ve ever owned. It’s awesome.

 

[la szum]

Funny, I just read over the whole thread, saw a bunch of posts saying “getting called an idiot for not knowing the UI”, but didn’t see a single post calling anyone an idiot the entire thread.

(not you..... )

 

[Orvillain]

While current gen is more bearable, it is still not enjoyable. QC was really fun to work with despite its shortcomings. It's why I had difficulty choosing which modeler to keep when I had the QC, FM3 and Helix Floor. FM3 won due to form factor and features.

As much as I've given you shit for it over the last year... yeah, this basically sums it all up.

 

[Orvillain]

(not you..... )

Bitch.

 

[la szum]

I never said I wanted concrete suggestions, just that they were more helpful.

And regarding "not that hard", it's relative. Clearly for some it's more frustrating than I find it and it's undeniable that some functions take more steps than they do on other modelers.

What I have been saying is that for some of those who are used to the UI it's not the issue that it is for some others.

Imagine the uproar and backlash if the entire UI was redone. It'd be the same sort of thing,
only on the other side. "Now I have to learn an whole new UI!"

The truth is we can't win over everyone in this world. Never happens. Never will happen.
We can be a Messiah or a Saint and you'll get a contract put out on your life. You can spend
countless hours trying to please people, and make yourself miserable, because people tend to
be miserable, and they want someone to offer them a product or service that makes them feel
not miserable for a moment or two.... only to return to the baseline state of chronic misery.

Things will be as they are, and the more we embrace and accept that the sooner we can not
be as miserable as most people are.

Then they can rail against us for that!

 

[SKU]

I don't own the Axe FX but if I did I'd only create advanced patches using the hardware unit toto spite the plebs who can't do it.



Although considering how much the UI of the simple Tonex frustrates me I'd probably end up complaining here along with them.

 

[duzie]

Imagine the uproar and backlash if the entire UI was redone. It'd be the same sort of thing,
only on the other side. "Now I have to learn an whole new UI!"

The truth is we can't win over everyone in this world. Never happens. Never will happen.
We can be a Messiah or a Saint and you'll get a contract put out on your life. You can spend
countless hours trying to please people, and make yourself miserable, because people tend to
be miserable, and they want someone to offer them a product or service that makes them feel
not miserable for a moment or two.... only to return to the baseline state of chronic misery.

Things will be as they are, and the more we embrace and accept that the sooner we can not
be as miserable as most people are.

Then they can rail against us for that!

Same as it ever was

 

[duzie]

 

[Elric]

Funny, I just read over the whole thread, saw a bunch of posts saying “getting called an idiot for not knowing the UI”, but didn’t see a single post calling anyone an idiot the entire thread.

Yep: FWIW, I think most are acknowledging that the UI is more difficult/painful than other devices but they're basically saying: it is worth the effort for many, so OP should stick with it and give it a chance.

A lot different than denying there is significant room for improvement or calling people who decide that it is a big enough issue that they choose a different device names... I don't think either of those things are going on here.

Also, one thing to acknowledge about the Fractal UI that is superb: the block/grid paradigm. It is supremely flexible. I would not want to give that up, I don't feel any other device gives the feeling of nearly unlimited freedom the Fractals do in that regard. And I think that is what that complexity buys you. It feels like you can do crazy stuff that would be a PITA in the real world and nearly impossible on any other device.

First time I used a Helix, I was like WTF is this 'lane' stuff? It felt unnecessarily restrictive after using a Fractal for so long and it seemed counterintuitive to me. It still does really.

QC could basically crib the Helix UI directly... but if Fractal did the same, I expect you'd be giving a lot up for that. If that were the case, I'll take the complexity and tether to Axe-Edit and use the panel sparingly.