The Fractal FM3 Sucks (Kind of)

[laxu]

Still... I don't think it is bad to lament that the situation hasn't changed in 20 odd years. But the issue is... and this is a point I've made to @laxu several times when we've had similar exchanges. At a certain point, the capabilities and feature-set explicitly dictate a non-simple experience, at a very fundamental level.

I have never tried to say that things need to be simple. Things just need to be fast to operate, consistent and intuitive.

The developers can take care of various hurdles for the user. These could be things like the ability to look up what a parameter does right in Axe-Edit, or just making an UI so that it requires less button presses or touchscreen taps to perform a task.

A good example is Helix vs Fractal block movement. Helix is an intuitive "pick and place", Fractal is "select a function and execute it" aka "no user experience thought went into this, only how it was easiest to program". This is a common engineer mindset. Helix doesn’t dumb this down, just makes it more intuitive.

I have said many times that the number of parameters, fx etc is not what makes Fractal a chore to use. Axe-Edit handles this just fine. The onboard UI doesn't because of the way it works and how its controls are laid out. It won't be solved until next gen but could have been improved over the years. It just hasn't got much attention at all.

 

[Los-D]

The MIDI support for external control is severely limited on Fractal and blocks "last value in" functionality where you can edit stuff using Axe-Edit, front panel or a MIDI controller simultaneously as you please.

Currently external controllers block any other source from editing. If your controller is not connected or malfunctions, you need to remove modifiers one by one which is terrible.

There is no technical reason why external controllers need to block the others from editing. It makes sense for e.g LFOs but not for any user operated device, whether it's an expression pedal or knob controller.

Using Sysex you can edit things as you please like Axe-Edit does but Fractal does not publish specs for this like they did for Axe-Fx 2 so it requires reverse engineering.

I have experimented with this and it would open up a lot of control convenience.

Funny enough, I’ve been looking at Line 6 USB MIDI last few days and interested on Sysex over USB over L6 side as well, lol.

I will say, going on a tangent, I think FC controllers would have been awesome with MIDI functionality in addition to FASLink, but that’s a separate discussion.

 

[laxu]

Funny enough, I’ve been looking at Line 6 USB MIDI last few days and interested on Sysex over USB over L6 side as well, lol.

I will say, going on a tangent, I think FC controllers would have been awesome with MIDI functionality in addition to FASLink, but that’s a separate discussion.

Totally agree but I also understand why they don't as they are largely "dumb" boxes where the Fractal does the heavy lifting.

 

[SeeD]

You're just jealous FAS has released as many hardware units as NDSP has updated the QC software

 

[LP59]

A good example is Helix vs Fractal block movement. Helix is an intuitive "pick and place", Fractal is "select a function and execute it" aka "no user experience thought went into this, only how it was easiest to program". This is a common engineer mindset. Helix doesn’t dumb this down, just makes it more intuitive.

It was hard to write, so it should be hard to use .

 

[Elric]

Had one of these down pat!

Pure Luxury. That screen had multiple lines and characters!

My first Multifx:

Five Character Seven Segment LCD based. 'EC 1' stands for "effects chain 1" you needed to know/memorize what that meant. The little single LEDs next to the FX will help because they are lighting up next to the effects that are active. The LEDs in the multi-segment display were used to form mismatched cap/lower case letters as you scroll through the parameters so you'd have to know 'bA 5' meant that the distortion/gain setting for your patch was '5' (bA == "balls" no lie).

It was studio only, put in a lot of work on the device, or bring the manual to the gig type of deal. Since the panel was the only official way to edit patches, you'd probably memorize a lot of it and actually not feel too freaked out. Eventually.

Seriously, OP, Fractal gear is super deep it is not a 'learn it in a day' device but it is worth it. Things like performance mode make adjusting simple stuff in a live context a snap. Only thing that is painful is reordering signal chains or creating stuff from scratch but that is not something to do at a gig anyway.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Obviously you've never had to program a rack mount multi effects unit? Fractal is way easier.

Why would you try to compete with the worst?

 

[Whizzinby]

Here's that vibe again. It's either the AXEIII with it's current archaic controls or it's Fractal making a toy version for all the stupid folks out there.

Amazing how many of you express it that way when these discussions come up.

The idea is modernization of control navigation - not the dumbing down of it.

100%. It’s a common refrain. “Dumbed down” “Fischer price toy” “my first modeler” and all that bullshit. It’s a terrible UI, full stop. That doesn’t mean it can’t be used, but by any reasonable modern standard it’s a complete pain in the ass to use, and few give a shit that it may be easier to use than some other archaic piece of equipment from years past.

You can love Fractal gear while still highlighting clear and obvious flaws.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Helix... Delete all of the blocks from your parallel path... the parallel path is removed automatically. Not so on Fractal.

Fwiw, this is pretty bad. I often set the parallal path up so it's switchable. Plus, I usually go for Y-spilt, which isn't the default. And I need to redo those two should I accidentally delete the last block on a path.

 

[LP59]

100%. It’s a common refrain. “Dumbed down” “Fischer price toy” “my first modeler” and all that bullshit. It’s a terrible UI, full stop. That doesn’t mean it can’t be used, but by any reasonable modern standard it’s a complete pain in the ass to use, and few give a shit that it may be easier to use than some other archaic piece of equipment from years past.

101%. The other common refrain is "It's for professionals". Professionals want an efficient and inspiring UI just like everybody else.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I have no problem spending a couple months to learn how to navigate a unit that has ALL THE GEAR in a sandbox kinda way.

But this is not what it's about. I don't think too many people have problems diving deep into something in case it's worth the effort.

But it's rather about whether things could be made substantially easier to deal with in one way or the other. And the answer clearly is: yes.
Which, btw, isn't only true in Fractal land. Even the HX family UIs (especially those of the smaller units) could still be vastly improved.

 

[Orvillain]

Fwiw, this is pretty bad. I often set the parallal path up so it's switchable. Plus, I usually go for Y-spilt, which isn't the default. And I need to redo those two should I accidentally delete the last block on a path.

How can you accidentally delete a block when it takes at minimum two button clicks to remove it? Doesn't this just fall into the pilot error category?

 

[Stratzrus]

Fractal is "select a function and execute it" aka "no user experience thought went into this, only how it was easiest to program".

Fascinating. You know this how? Did the developers tell you this?

Or is this just some BS you're making up?

It just seems like a cheap potshot with no basis in fact.

 

[Elric]

101%. The other common refrain is "It's for professionals". Professionals want an efficient UI just like everybody else.

I dunno. I guess I am biased by being a long time Fractal fan boy and maybe it is just because I'm both an old timer and an engineer. But, really things like changing the mix on a reverb, or adjusting an amp tone stack or volume, etc, is dirt simple on the FAS UI.

To get a touch screen that is viable on the grid; the FAS stuff would require like a 5U unit or remote edit via iPad or something.

 

[Sascha Franck]

How can you accidentally delete a block when it takes at minimum two button clicks to remove it? Doesn't this just fall into the pilot error category?

In the editor it's exactly one click. But yes, I know, in the editor there's undo.
Still, I'd usually prefer my paths stay intact until I actively delete them (in whatever way that might happen then).

 

[Orvillain]

In the editor it's exactly one click. But yes, I know, in the editor there's undo.
Still, I'd usually prefer my paths stay intact until I actively delete them (in whatever way that might happen then).

This entire topic is about editing on the hardware though.

On Fractal if you wanted to delete this parallel path on the hardware:

You'd select the delay block. Hit delete. It deletes the block, but not the shunt. So you hit delete again to delete the shunt.
Then you'd do it for the next delay, the PEQ, the compressor, the reverb, and the two empty shunts.

That is a total of 12 clicks to do what Helix does for you automatically; considering the context is there are no more processors there, so chances are you don't want the path at all.

12 clicks versus 5 on the Helix.

Fractal doesn't even have a "Delete Row" function on its advanced "Tools" page.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Axe III and the Helix. But they're not perfect devices at all.

 

[Orvillain]

But, really things like changing the mix on a reverb, or adjusting an amp tone stack or volume, etc, is dirt simple on the FAS UI.

I agree those kinds of tweaks are reasonably simple. But again.... versus Helix.... there are more clicks to get to the place you need to get. Fractal has the performance pages though, and those are legitimately awesome. Everything should have them!!

 

[LP59]

I dunno. I guess I am biased by being a long time Fractal fan boy and maybe it is just because I'm both an old timer and an engineer. But, really things like changing the mix on a reverb, or adjusting an amp tone stack or volume, etc, is dirt simple on the FAS UI.

I agree, but how to turn a knob is hardly the issue

 

[the-trooper]

to turn a knob

 

[Orvillain]

fuck all order

lmao. Yes, this basically describes the Fractal experience to a T.