The Fractal FM3 Sucks (Kind of)

[Ed DeGenaro]

@Orvillain ; here's a question for you. And this relates to guitar speakers vs. powered monitors/"FRFR". That is one thing I like the BEST about studio monitors and "flat" speakers. The ability to hear all the delay/verb/fx clarity instead of it all getting filtered through the guitar cab. I much prefer the pristine sounds for that stuff. So that's one reason why an amp and a load box and some killer FX through a pair of the FR12s/CLRs/wtfever you can live with in this space sounds Rube Goldberg as fuck but ultimately very sonically satisfying

Out of curiosity the signal running the delay is the guitar signal does it really matter if you cut top after or before the delay via cab?

I know my delays I tend to prefer are pretty much the opposite of pristine.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Out of curiosity the signal running the delay is the guitar signal does it really matter if you cut too after or before the delay via cab?

I know my delays I tend to prefer are pretty much the opposite of pristine.

It's actually a couple of things. Like I said; I DO NOT like verb or delay in front of high gain. The way I like to play and things I like to play need to be as clean (as my technique can allow at least) as possible. The second thing beyond that; it might not matter and could be all in my mind

 

[la szum]

OP wasn't at a gig. He was at a rehearsal. It sounded like he wanted to craft a completely new tone to me, perhaps from scratch, because inspiration struck him.

It happened to me last weekend, which is why I've been primarily concerned with getting my G3 board up and running since then. Because the experience from a "I'm not playing songs, I'm hunting for ideas" live rehearsal improv+jam+writing perspective, was not a fun one.

I love the tones from the Fractal..... but I also know what it is great at and what it is not
so great at. An inspiration machine that you can tweak on the fly and get real time control
over a variety of FX and their parameters is so NOT what it is great at.

I know I need my tones dialed in when I take the FM3 to play with the guys. I want to play,
and bending over and massaged buttons and menu-diving is not playing.

I think a lot of the issue is on us as users. We can't lay the blame on companies and developers
for not giving us all what we want before we know we want it. We need to know our own gear,
what we want out of our own gear, and then if that gear is a match for what we want.

And heaven forbid we all become victims of gear that doesn't suck our dicks quite good enough.

 

[la szum]

Again, not saying there's no room for improvement, but it's pretty surprising how resistant to learning a piece of equipment people are. So much so that people spend hundreds of dollars on presets.

You'd be shocked how many people cannot figure out how to use a manual can opener. I am not
making this up.

Effort triggers more people's allergies everyday.

 

[la szum]

Is crafting a new tone from scratch really a great idea in that situation, with any of the modelers? I'd rather just use a pedalboard and an amp in that case, if I'm looking for spontaneity.

Exactly! Know your tools as a sculptor, painter, builder. Know what your tools are best
at and what they are not best at. Then build and craft accordingly.

 

[la szum]

Because that's never been ideal with any multieffects since the dawn of time? Not being snarky, it's just that it's always been this way. RP series, 2101, ADA stuff, JMP-1, Roland rack processors, etc. I've used a ton since I've started playing, and none of them have ever been amp and pedals spontaneous.

That's pretty much the choice we make going with something like this, and why a very good friend of mine still plays pedals and a Matchless. Doesn't want to have anything to do with digital, even though he thinks my Fractal setup sounds amazing.

They are, and always have been for a completely different purpose. Hell, I'd argue ANY of the modelers these days are easier than it was in the 90's/00's.

The Wookie is on fire today, people!

 

[SKU]

I know I need my tones dialed in when I take the FM3 to play with the guys. I want to play,
and bending over and massaged buttons and menu-diving is not playing.

That's extra bad if you have a stealthy bald spot on top of your head ... Now everyone knows

 

[la szum]

We can bemoan the lack of what gear does for us, or choose different tools and methods.

That's on us. Not the gear. To me.

The choice is rather simple to me.

If a Reverb is too pingy and I can't dial it out I choose a different 'Verb.

If a delay is too murky and it not sufficient clarity in the repeats and it all gets muddled I choose a different delay.

If a device is too cumbersome to navigate in a real-time setting with oother musicians then I am going to choose
a device or tool that is not as cumbersome.

If I need to get in light and easy and not take up too much space, then I choose tools that give me that.

The one thing we don't suffer from a lack of in our day and age is a lack of tools/options/choices. It all comes
down to picking the best tools for our intents and purposes. Align those, and the apparent issues evaporate
into nothingness.

 

[la szum]

That's extra bad if you have a stealthy bald spot on top of your head ... Now everyone knows

Mines in front so people can see it coming when I enter the room. No secrets here.

 

[Orvillain]

Cumulonimbus in a pedal pleeezzzzzz!

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

It's actually a couple of things. Like I said; I DO NOT like verb or delay in front of high gain. The way I like to play and things I like to play need to be as clean (as my technique can allow at least) as possible. The second thing beyond that; it might not matter and could be all in my mind

Oh you meant in front.
Misunderstood you. I had thought you meant you wanted it after the cab.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Oh you meant in front.
Misunderstood you. I had thought you meant you wanted it after the cab.

I kinda meant both ways. I don't like it in front of a wound up amp AND I like to think I prefer delays AFTER cabinet emulation possibly for reasons that aren't actually real

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I kinda meant both ways. I don't like it in front of a wound up amp AND I like to think I prefer delays AFTER cabinet emulation possibly for reasons that aren't actually real

I like it in front only with crunchy or less than crunchy amps.
With high gain and by that I mean high not EVH level I’m happy before the paranoia but I used to Schlepp w/d/w set up, which is where it’s at but since I stopped driving 8 years ago and cartage money is next to impossible it won’t happen other than ITB.

 

[Jarick]

It’s awesome for some specific use cases but tweaking at a rehearsal isn’t one of them.

 

[ejecta]

Again, not saying there's no room for improvement, but it's pretty surprising how resistant to learning a piece of equipment people are. So much so that people spend hundreds of dollars on presets.

Seems a lot of guitar players tend to be lazy. I even saw a guy say in a post that he wouldn’t go that route with his rig because he’d have to use one more cable in the rig.

I say if you like the way Fractal gear sounds then learn to use the unit with the editor and without. I got to where I could edit on face of the FM3 but it was still clunky so I get why people hate it. Like you said there’s room for improvement.

 

[Piing]

 

[JCW308]

Does not suck!

 

[SeeD]

Just because something is expensive doesn't mean that the company who makes it is primarily concerned with how to make mountains of money.

Maybe compare the cost of an Axe Fx III to a SINGLE analog rig you would use it to replace... I think you'll find a great value proposition

OG, MK II, Turbo

 

[Mongillo19]

OG, MK II, Turbo

You're just jealous FAS has released as many hardware units as NDSP has updated the QC software

 

[laxu]

There is already robust midi support...

The MIDI support for external control is severely limited on Fractal and blocks "last value in" functionality where you can edit stuff using Axe-Edit, front panel or a MIDI controller simultaneously as you please.

Currently external controllers block any other source from editing. If your controller is not connected or malfunctions, you need to remove modifiers one by one which is terrible.

There is no technical reason why external controllers need to block the others from editing. It makes sense for e.g LFOs but not for any user operated device, whether it's an expression pedal or knob controller.

Using Sysex you can edit things as you please like Axe-Edit does but Fractal does not publish specs for this like they did for Axe-Fx 2 so it requires reverse engineering.

I have experimented with this and it would open up a lot of control convenience.