The Digital Doubt

[Boudoir Guitar]

Maybe I am not describing it correctly but it feels smaller, lacking in interactions that make it feel compressed. Have you ever played an amp that feels compressed but doesn’t really sound it?

I have never had an experience where I felt a difference playing two amps and I couldn’t hear any difference on playback.

I have had plenty of experience where the degree of difference I hear on playback is much smaller that what I experienced when playing.

 

[Eagle]

Still…my own observations…and every blind test I can find online..give different conclusions. So there’s no soul behind this keyboard you can win for the dark side

I think you need to be the player or you are not going to tell.

 

[Eagle]

To be frank, an electric guitar, as far as signals go, is not very precious or special. ADDA can handle it just fine.

I do accept that the experience of someone who approaches the experience with an assumption about what the ADDA process is doing to their guitar signal MIGHT have the experience colored by that assumption.

I have heard a ADDA that I can’t detect easily in an AB test with me playing.

 

[Eagle]

I have never had an experience where I felt a difference playing two amps and I couldn’t hear any difference on playback.

I have had plenty of experience where the degree of difference I hear on playback is much smaller that what I experienced when playing.

This is probably your experience of the same thing.

 

[jay mitchell]

Tubers gonna tube. Players gonna play. This horse died around 20 years ago, yet some folks are still beating it.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

I think you need to be the player or you are not going to tell.

A/ I am in my own observations.
B/ People are in blind tests
C/ I don’t understand how audio can be measurable equal, and feel different, doesn’t make sense. Unless there is latency into play.

 

[FuzzyAce]

To be frank, an electric guitar, as far as signals go, is not very precious or special. ADDA can handle it just fine.

I do accept that the experience of someone who approaches the experience with an assumption about what the ADDA process is doing to their guitar signal MIGHT have the experience colored by that assumption.

VS.

Feels relevant to the thread.

 

[Eagle]

A/ I am in my own observations.
B/ People are in blind tests
C/ I don’t understand how audio can be measurable equal, and feel different, doesn’t make sense. Unless there is latency into play.

I’m not sure 1~2 milliseconds is going to be enough to be obvious. It depends on what your measuring. How do you explain the fact that two pickups with the same dc resistance and the same poles and magnets can sound different.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

View attachment 36153

VS.

View attachment 36155

Feels relevant to the thread.

I was thinking the same thing but didn’t want to shit stream (as @Boudoir Guitar likes to call it), glad you did

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

How do you explain the fact that two pickups with the same dc resistance and the same poles and magnets can sound different.

Because the signal they generate is measurably different?

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

I’m not sure 1~2 milliseconds is going to be enough to be obvious. It depends on what your measuring. How do you explain the fact that two pickups with the same dc resistance and the same poles and magnets can sound different.

I can’t, nor want to.
I just navigate on what I experience myself, and what I can verify through other sources…other peeps graphs maybe..

 

[Shredder777]

The digital version of an amp is always more forgiving ime. You may or may not like that but neither is likely to make you a better player. Practicing dry may though.

I think the opposite is true.

Many traditional players who talk about "bloom" and crystal lattice, and who use open back cabs with boutique speakers, and guitars with "lollars", and who obsess over their weight of their LP, are the ones who play the simplest and easiest guitar music. They are the ones who rely on the gear to make the sound of their music impressive. Their playing is easy and shitty most of the time.

High gain lead playing is almost like playing a square wave. It needs to be tight so that we can hear everything, so that it recovers fast enough to actualize your technique. Playing a single high gain note and letting it decay to nothing does not sound good. This style of music actually relies on your playing, not using the gear as some special effect to make simple chords sound good.

So in the debate of digital vs amp, at least in high gain playing, yes the modeler can be easier to set up and in some instances easier to play, but amps like the 5150 can accomplish the same ease. When using a real amp, there are subtle articulations and "Amp in the Room" things that make it sound better, and thus the end product is more enjoyable and impressive. Because playing a square wave is a drag. All those extra imperfections do elevate it even if it is 2% more difficult to control.

(Did you know that if you type "A i T R" the forum auto corrects it to Amp?)

I think the aforementioned people using a boutique signal chain and playing simple shit are the ones who should be under the microscope. Not people using modelers.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I was thinking the same thing but didn’t want to shit stream (as @Boudoir Guitar likes to call it), glad you did

Off topic jokes are choice. Starting a thread where a guy is talking about a device and then several days in asking “so, what’s that device?”, especially when there are approximately 10 billion YouTube videos about the device is

 

[Sascha Franck]

You don’t accept the digital and analog are inherently different? Putting something through ADDA is loosing information and modelling even more.

You don't accept that this is completely irrelvant once we're within a certain range of accuracy.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Off topic jokes are choice. Starting a thread where a guy is talking about a device and then several days in asking “so, what’s that device?”, especially when there are approximately 10 billion YouTube videos about the device is

Okay sheriff

 

[Sascha Franck]

Like I said, I'm ok with modeling being different. I think it's awesome in a way because new sounds are being created because of the technology.

Fwiw, as you may know, I don't give a toss about modeling being 100, 95, 81 or even just 61% true to the original.
And I will as well happily accept that there's still certain differences (whether that's for good or bad shouldn't matter here, both exist).

But it's completely beyond me how some people can come up with weird snakeoil-ish assumptions, followed by some "that's why analog is better" resumes. And as we were at it, claiming that modeled amps would always compress more than their analog counterparts is just that, namely non-provable voodoo. If they were doing this, it could be proven easily. And heck, some defenitely do, such as the GT-1000 amps (just that they don't exactly have analog counterparts). But coming up with some sweeping generalizations is just stupid, simply because it's not true.

 

[Eagle]

You don't accept that this is completely irrelvant once we're within a certain range of accuracy.

And we are nowhere near it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And we are nowhere near it.

We absolutely are. At least here and there. But your opinion on it is absolutely irrelevant as well as you're not even *trying* to prove anything, all you ever come up with is your analog-superiority-complex driven snakeoil-voodoo, trying to make things look like a well known truth over and over and over again. Which it isn't. And in case it was, you'd be able to deliver some proof. But you're not.

 

[Eagle]

Fwiw, as you may know, I don't give a toss about modeling being 100, 95, 81 or even just 61% true to the original.
And I will as well happily accept that there's still certain differences (whether that's for good or bad shouldn't matter here, both exist).

But it's completely beyond me how some people can come up with weird snakeoil-ish assumptions, followed by some "that's why analog is better" resumes. And as we were at it, claiming that modeled amps would always compress more than their analog counterparts is just that, namely non-provable voodoo. If they were doing this, it could be proven easily. And heck, some defenitely do, such as the GT-1000 amps (just that they don't exactly have analog counterparts). But coming up with some sweeping generalizations is just stupid, simply because it's not true.

I agree that accuracy only matters if it’s a goal in itself. But digital feels different and less dynamic. The whole process is improving as resolution grows from generation to generation but There is a way to go before you get a comparable experience as the player. So you are happy with the dynamic of a pod version one . Finished done deal.

 

[Eagle]

We absolutely are. At least here and there. But your opinion on it is absolutely irrelevant as well as you're not even *trying* to prove anything, all you ever come up with is your analog-superiority-complex driven snakeoil-voodoo, trying to make things look like a well known truth over and over and over again. Which it isn't. And in case it was, you'd be able to deliver some proof. But you're not.

You have provided no evidence of anything at all .