The case for delay after reverb for studio recording. Please add your experiences.

[Mikael Dez]

I do hear a difference in the order. My latest listening test did not achieve what I had hoped. The very slight reverb made what was feeding the delay a bit different and added some color to the delays. I think I prefer delay->reverb.

I really like the idea of parallel routing and will definitely give that a shot next time I’m on a device that supports it!

I might be mistaken, but I think a used Headrush MX5 may be the cheapest device that has parallel routing

 

[DLC86]

Ok, so it seems the power of suggestion is quite strong in here... I'll post a blind test and if you all don't achieve 100% accuracy in recognizing the delay/reverb order, I'll hunt you down and confiscate all your strymon/eventide/meris pedals

I’m sorry, but your ears are broken.

I'm sorry, but you're hearing things.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I might be mistaken, but I think a used Headrush MX5 may be the cheapest device that has parallel routing

I have some gear that’ll do it… I’ll check it out next time I fire it up.

But, thank you!

 

[ragingplatypi]

For delays, I tend to prefer them as something that doesn’t get in the way of most rhythm playing but is a sweet, sweet sonic add for soloing. EVH does this well. I don’t consciously seek his exact tones but I do like and use some of his basic approaches with regard to delay times (roughly), feedback and mix. It’s more obvious than the reverb but still doesn’t cloak the core tones and playing dynamics used.

Joe Perry did something similar, but I think his case they literally doubled the track after the fact. It made his solos sound wider than the rest of the sound stage.

As for delay pre or post reverb it obviously depends on what you’re going for. A simple digital delay is almost a separate category of effect from a Roland Space Echo.

In the Helix there’s an effect called Heliosphere that I think is supposed to be reverb into delay for ambient stuff.

 

[Orvillain]

Ok, so it seems the power of suggestion is quite strong in here... I'll post a blind test and if you all don't achieve 100% accuracy in recognizing the delay/reverb order, I'll hunt you down and confiscate all your strymon/eventide/meris pedals



I'm sorry, but you're hearing things.

Null tests or go home. I will not accept a blind test.

 

[DLC86]

Null tests or go home. I will not accept a blind test.

I already did null tests in the video... But null tests in some cases make a negligible difference seem huge, and in the video I also explained why.

 

[Sascha Franck]

With the exception of @Sascha Franck’s rig, it’s rarely 2x4. All the good sounding delays and reverbs are doing so much other stuff that the order of processing 100% matters.

In a mix, the order of delay and reverb very often is pretty much non-distiguishable, though. I'm usually using delay into reverb myself, though, but there's been times when the situation dictated the other order and it absolutely didn't matter much.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, just so that nobody gets me wrong: Yes, I absolutely do think the order is relevant, but often it's not relevant enough to make a big deal about it. We don't need to discuss about whether there's a difference, either, because there clearly is (even on non-modulating/saturating delays/verbs). But as said, quite often it's not a dealbreaker.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

In a mix, the order of delay and reverb very often is pretty much non-distiguishable, though. I'm usually using delay into reverb myself, though, but there's been times when the situation dictated the other order and it absolutely didn't matter much.

This thread is rife with bullshit statements that are basically just saying:

"it doesn't really make a difference, except for the times when it does"


Which is just a free pass to get away with any kind of meaningless statement.

Took me 2 seconds to bounce out a clip - delay with modulation going before a reverb vs after. When the reverb is before, you hear the reverb tail shift around in a way that sounds absolutely shite (like what happens if you add chorus to an IR). When you have the reverb after the delay, the reverb tail isn't being thrown around in the same way.

Delay + Reverb Test

From Ed S

samply.app

Why would changing the order of processing cause an issue anyway? just do whatever needs to be done, its not like a limitation exists to begin with.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Which is just a free pass to get away with any kind of meaningless statement.

No (at least not in my case). See my last post.
And fwiw, as you are using a delay with modulation, I don't even need to listen to the clip to know there's a noticeable difference. I made these tests myself long time ago already.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

delay with modulation, I don't even need to listen to the clip to know there's a noticeable difference. I made these tests myself long time ago already.

If we're going to impose limitations on what parameters we can and can't adjust on the delays and reverbs to only settings that make the initial assertion true, then we're just into "a stopped watch is correct twice a day" territory.

The fact is, delays and reverbs have a number of parameters and behaviours that will affect this stuff. Reverbs absolutely (can) have complex modulation behaviours on their delay taps. Quite often delays will also have degrees of modulation too (as well as other non-linear behaviours).

I'm not saying that sometimes it won't matter which order they're in, but trying to push a narrative that it doesn't matter is 100% wrong. It does matter, and if you are using delay and reverb, the order of processing should be considered.

 

[BahamaDada]

I'd rather my delays be 'in the room' than my room be 'in the delays'.

/Thread :-D

 

[Orvillain]

No (at least not in my case)

Especially in your case.

 

[Orvillain]

I already did null tests in the video... But null tests in some cases make a negligible difference seem huge, and in the video I also explained why.

I didn't watch it because it wasn't in English. But are you saying your null tests reveal that they don't null??

 

[Sascha Franck]

Especially in your case.

Why don't you just take the opportunity of this wonderful morning to shut up?

 

[Sascha Franck]

but trying to push a narrative that it doesn't matter is 100% wrong

I. DIDN'T. DO. THAT.

 

[Orvillain]

Why don't you just take the opportunity of this wonderful morning to shut up?

No. Happy Easter to you.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I. DIDN'T. DO. THAT.

There are many posts in this thread that imply the differences in order don’t matter. That is 100% the opposite message to put out because it makes too many generalisations and over simplifications.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Happy Easter to you.

Oh thank you!

 

[FuzzyAce]

Well, the bottom line is -- there is a difference. Very subtle thru to extreme, depending on a number of factors.