THE AMP SIM PLUGIN THREAD

[Deadpan]

new cabinet IR loader plugin. haven’t tried it yet but a lot of the ideas seem fantastic. Need to look closer+demo but it almost seems like instabuy:

Cabinetron - Ultimate IR Loader & Guitar Cabinet Simulator - Three-Body Technology

Cabinetron is the ultimate IR loader & cabinet simulator that integrates IR browsing, editing, mixing, EQing, tone matching, exporting, born to be your one and only tool to find every missing process between your amp and your ears.

www.threebodytech.com

Edit: no mono version, at least for aax. a few little kinks that could do with ironing out. Even just having the search and tags alone I think is going to work like a dream for me, but it seems a bit rough round the edges still. Also the UI is SO busy, I feel like it would be better if it was scaleable

Edit 2: Tried it out. The search side is nearly great, just needs to be able to find multiple words within the same file name. There has to be something seriously wrong with anyone who thinks they need to blend 8 IR’s, each with EXTENSIVE controls for mangling the IR. 4 is overkill, and if you can’t land your tone with 4 then something else is wrong. There’s also an overwhelming amount of information on the screen and I think almost all of it is redundant for most situations. It has some great things going for it, the search aspect POSSIBLY makes it worthwhile but it’s far from perfect for me.

Thanks for all the testing and thoughts on the various software!

 

[laxu]

new cabinet IR loader plugin. haven’t tried it yet but a lot of the ideas seem fantastic. Need to look closer+demo but it almost seems like instabuy:

Cabinetron - Ultimate IR Loader & Guitar Cabinet Simulator - Three-Body Technology

Cabinetron is the ultimate IR loader & cabinet simulator that integrates IR browsing, editing, mixing, EQing, tone matching, exporting, born to be your one and only tool to find every missing process between your amp and your ears.

www.threebodytech.com

Edit: no mono version, at least for aax. a few little kinks that could do with ironing out. Even just having the search and tags alone I think is going to work like a dream for me, but it seems a bit rough round the edges still. Also the UI is SO busy, I feel like it would be better if it was scaleable

Edit 2: Tried it out. The search side is nearly great, just needs to be able to find multiple words within the same file name. There has to be something seriously wrong with anyone who thinks they need to blend 8 IR’s, each with EXTENSIVE controls for mangling the IR. 4 is overkill, and if you can’t land your tone with 4 then something else is wrong. There’s also an overwhelming amount of information on the screen and I think almost all of it is redundant for most situations. It has some great things going for it, the search aspect POSSIBLY makes it worthwhile but it’s far from perfect for me.

This seems like something that goes so deep into overkill tweakability that it loses the plot.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

This seems like something that goes so deep into overkill tweakability that it loses the plot.

Honestly most of the parameters didn’t sound too bad to me, I’ve heard plugins like this where touching anything at all just sounds like ass. But I still can’t think of any situation where I wouldn’t to use those controls over just EQ.

Given the amount of small/pointless stuff you can customise in settings, I wish you could just change it to 4 slots and remove any parameters you wish.

I also don’t care for those octagon mixers, I’d much prefer 4 channelstrips with faders/pan/eq/polarity/delay

 

[laxu]

Honestly most of the parameters didn’t sound too bad to me, I’ve heard plugins like this where touching anything at all just sounds like ass. But I still can’t think of any situation where I wouldn’t to use those controls over just EQ.

Given the amount of small/pointless stuff you can customise in settings, I wish you could just change it to 4 slots and remove any parameters you wish.

I also don’t care for those octagon mixers, I’d much prefer 4 channelstrips with faders/pan/eq/polarity/delay

For me the worst offender is the sheer amount of stuff on screen at once. While it may be power user friendly (see everything at once), it can also be overwhelming to the point of option paralysis or endless tweaking rabbit holes.

I find with the ML Sound Lab MIKKO 2, once you get past 2-3 different mics it gets increasingly into "nothing I do actually makes the sound better" territory. Same with Fractal's Dyna-Cabs.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

For me the worst offender is the sheer amount of stuff on screen at once. While it may be power user friendly (see everything at once), it can also be overwhelming to the point of option paralysis or endless tweaking rabbit holes.

I find with the ML Sound Lab MIKKO 2, once you get past 2-3 different mics it gets increasingly into "nothing I do actually makes the sound better" territory. Same with Fractal's Dyna-Cabs.

Totally agree WRT how much is on screen at once. There is too much focus on things that rarely, if ever, get used. I'm probably using a single IR at least 90% of the time. If I'm blending its almost always with one other mic. VERY VERY rarely 3 and basically never 4.

Mikko 2 is useless if you don't want to use the included cabs. Fractal Dyna-Cab is also pretty awful for using external IR's. The main strength of this plugin is the browser/search//tagging features, or at least the potential for how well that can work to find exactly what you are looking for.

 

[laxu]

Mikko 2 is useless if you don't want to use the included cabs. Fractal Dyna-Cab is also pretty awful for using external IR's. The main strength of this plugin is the browser/search//tagging features, or at least the potential for how well that can work to find exactly what you are looking for.

Well both of those are built for using the included cabs. IMO Fractal's "Legacy" IR loader is quite capable though and just as easy for mixing as the Dyna-Cabs. It's selecting the IRs that is a pain in the ass since the browser is poor.

The browser is definitely powerful and has a lot of features I'd like to see on Fractal's file browser too, even if it's Axe-Edit only functionality.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Well both of those are built for using the included cabs. IMO Fractal's "Legacy" IR loader is quite capable though and just as easy for mixing as the Dyna-Cabs. It's selecting the IRs that is a pain in the ass since the browser is poor.

The browser is definitely powerful and has a lot of features I'd like to see on Fractal's file browser too, even if it's Axe-Edit only functionality.

Yeah - the fact those products are made for using their own cabs is exactly why they have no use for me, and why this product offers something that as yet no company has really got right IMO. I think those are trying to achieve something different to this, which really has a focus on the library/browser aspect (and just happens to include a few IR's and presets as an extra). The process for loading IR's into Fractal's ecosystem is extremely cumbersome IMO, especially for how I like to work. I basically just use external IR loaders than dealing with in-built loaders.

I don't think Cabinetron (I cant keep typing shit names like this FFS) is the exact solution I was looking for, but being able to access my entire IR library with minimal fuss and quickly is the thing that is making it stand out. Less clicking=moar good

 

[eggpl@nt]

The process for loading IR's into Fractal's ecosystem is extremely cumbersome IMO, especially for how I like to work. I basically just use external IR loaders than dealing with in-built loaders.

Could you expand on this? In the past, I'd agree with you. You had to use CabLab to convert WAV files to SYX files, which took forever sometimes, then import them. Now, Axe Edit handles the conversion quickly and seamlessly (IMHO).

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Could you expand on this? In the past, I'd agree with you. You had to use CabLab to convert WAV files to SYX files, which took forever sometimes, then import them. Now, Axe Edit handles the conversion quickly and seamlessly (IMHO).

Sure. I've made approximately 20,000 IR's SORT of with an approach more similar to what Fractal are trying to do with Dynacabs.

The main difference is, I'm capturing the full width of the speaker (rather than just from one edge to the center of the cone) as well as capturing all speakers within the cabs. I'm also capturing them with more microphones.

Importing just a handful of IR's is fine, but if I want to have the freedom to adjust my mic positions or swap mics out, I have to drag in huge lists of files and scroll through lists to find anything. There's some colour coding and basic organsation that can be done but it gets bloated quite quickly. Dynacabs is obviously closer to the experience I'm looking for, but I want to be able to use my own IR's, with the mic options, positions and speaker choices I've captured.

I end up with a view like this:

Where I can narrow things down by cab name, but them I'm still presented with a long list. Its kind of cumbersome to scroll through one by one with how these files are organised.

The best solution is to use an external IR loader. If I was fussed about using the FM-3 outside the studio, I'd export the individual IR's I need and add them in. In a studio environment, its pointless - I can just use an external IR loader and retain all my settings without needing to export and save elsewhere. Even the process of using Cablab seems a bit cumbersome, with having to go back and forth between an external IR loader and an internal one.

Not really sure what the solution is long term - perhaps some kind of Cab Manager software where I could combine an entire set of IR's from one cab into a single file that the Fractal units can understand and sweep through IR's logically would be ideal.

 

[eggpl@nt]

Sure. <clipped for space>

This is interesting, thanks. You're definitely in a different league than I am when it comes to IR management, so this I appreciate the perspective.

You probably don't want to divulge your process, but do you have any recommendations for IR capturing software? I've had decent success with MLS Tool. As a means of testing my setup, I've "cloned" IRs with MLS Tool and have found the original and cloned file to match very well sonically and visually, when imported into something like REW. I've tried other tools like the native macOS Impulse Capture tool and REW, but those both require the additional step to import into a DAW and trim the file (unless I'm missing something obvious).

 

[laxu]

Sure. I've made approximately 20,000 IR's SORT of with an approach more similar to what Fractal are trying to do with Dynacabs.

The main difference is, I'm capturing the full width of the speaker (rather than just from one edge to the center of the cone) as well as capturing all speakers within the cabs. I'm also capturing them with more microphones.

Importing just a handful of IR's is fine, but if I want to have the freedom to adjust my mic positions or swap mics out, I have to drag in huge lists of files and scroll through lists to find anything. There's some colour coding and basic organsation that can be done but it gets bloated quite quickly. Dynacabs is obviously closer to the experience I'm looking for, but I want to be able to use my own IR's, with the mic options, positions and speaker choices I've captured.

The best solution is to use an external IR loader. If I was fussed about using the FM-3 outside the studio, I'd export the individual IR's I need and add them in. In a studio environment, its pointless - I can just use an external IR loader and retain all my settings without needing to export and save elsewhere. Even the process of using Cablab seems a bit cumbersome, with having to go back and forth between an external IR loader and an internal one.

Not really sure what the solution is long term - perhaps some kind of Cab Manager software where I could combine an entire set of IR's from one cab into a single file that the Fractal units can understand and sweep through IR's logically would be ideal.

Yeah I can totally understand why you'd be frustrated if that's the thing you want to do. I don't have the patience to go through individual mic files on most IR cab packs let alone something as complex as this.

So for me tools like the Dyna-Cabs or ML MIKKO 2 work well because it's more intuitive to do "ok it's a bit too dark, let's move it closer to the center" than it's to try to go through a bunch of IR files in a browser.

What you are looking for probably won't exist until someone makes an open format for virtual mic data mapping and clear instructions on how to make them. Then you still need to get manufacturers to support it of course!

Now it's considered a competitive advantage by Two Notes, ML, Fractal and others who make movable mic cab sim plugins so none of them play together, none of them let you make your own cabs without consulting the company first and MIKKO 2 is one of the few that allows you to export IRs of your mixes right from the plugin itself.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

This is interesting, thanks. You're definitely in a different league than I am when it comes to IR management, so this I appreciate the perspective.

You probably don't want to divulge your process, but do you have any recommendations for IR capturing software? I've had decent success with MLS Tool. As a means of testing my setup, I've "cloned" IRs with MLS Tool and have found the original and cloned file to match very well sonically and visually, when imported into something like REW. I've tried other tools like the native macOS Impulse Capture tool and REW, but those both require the additional step to import into a DAW and trim the file (unless I'm missing something obvious).

annoyingly I find using Voxengo’s old ass deconvolver the best solution still. I run it in Crossover on macOS, and it works pretty well. you can do big batches of IR’s quickly. I use some other tools for batch processing and naming/organising.

I don't have the patience to go through individual mic files on most IR cab packs let alone something as complex as this.

So for me tools like the Dyna-Cabs or ML MIKKO 2 work well because it's more intuitive to do "ok it's a bit too dark, let's move it closer to the center" than it's to try to go through a bunch of IR files in a browser.

I mean…. this is my desired goal too, and it’s pretty close to how I currently work with my IR’s. I just scroll up/down to move the mic towards centre or further away. It obviously depends on any particular IR loader to be able to scroll one by one through a list of files accordingly to their name though. It’s not so much that each IR is totally different - in fact the purpose is the entire opposite. So while it might look like a lot of files there’s a deliberate and logical structure to them and it’s just a case of moving the mic position. I hate going through IR folders where the sound is changing drastically and randomly, so my organisation is about getting away from that.

What you are looking for probably won't exist until someone makes an open format for virtual mic data mapping and clear instructions on how to make them. Then you still need to get manufacturers to support it of course!

Yeah, the closest at the moment is Melda MCabinet. I was able to make a simple speaker UI where I could drag a microphone over a speaker and it would interpolate between my IR’s in a logical way. It has other limitations though, and the UI is painful for me to use so I abandoned it.

I hope one of these companies who is making amp capture technology is seriously considering IR capture tech too. Dynamounts are pretty industry standard, all it needs to do is communicate with that and it can automate the whole process. There’s HUGE potential with machine learning too because there is so much data to train from. good opportunity for @atomicamps to have an edge over the competition

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, re: Cabinetron
I think this is a great plugin, possibly the best single plugin solution for those with large amounts of IRs.
But IMO they're missing out big time on keyboard control. Yes, once you have an IR loaded, you can scroll through your IR lists by focusing one slot and then using the return key. But that's about it, it's one direction only. The weirdest thing being that you can actually scroll through lists of IRs on the left with your arrow keys but there's no way to also load them into a slot without using the mouse.
This one single feature is what IMO turns Logic's Space Designer into the greatest IR loader on earth (ok, you do need the Space Designer Manager app as well), even if it's pretty limited otherwise.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

New UAD Sound City plugin has a cab sim section built in. A bit limited insofar as you can’t adjust mic position aside from on/off axis.

Main things are:

- it’s a cool Marshall with Greenbacks
- very cool room micing options (with/without baffles, can adjust distances of room mics, change polar patterns etc)
- the chamber option sounds good

The downsides:

- should have allowed a moveable close mic. You can move the room mics pretty freely but the close mic on a cab offers a lot more benefits.
- should have captured several speakers
- more cabs would have been cool

Regardless, it’s a cool option if you want to hear guitars blasted through a famous studio room and like cranking room mics. Most IR’s aren’t captured in a room like this

 

[NightWalker]

New UAD Sound City plugin has a cab sim section built in. A bit limited insofar as you can’t adjust mic position aside from on/off axis.

Main things are:

- it’s a cool Marshall with Greenbacks
- very cool room micing options (with/without baffles, can adjust distances of room mics, change polar patterns etc)
- the chamber option sounds good

The downsides:

- should have allowed a moveable close mic. You can move the room mics pretty freely but the close mic on a cab offers a lot more benefits.
- should have captured several speakers
- more cabs would have been cool

Regardless, it’s a cool option if you want to hear guitars blasted through a famous studio room and like cranking room mics. Most IR’s aren’t captured in a room like this

last night i bought this plugin F-Audiolabs HAILSTONE but I didn't notice that I can't load third party IRs,i bought it because is on sale,but a regular price is expensive if i cant load third party IRs,plugin only come with a few cabs

 

[Sascha Franck]

last night i bought this plugin F-Audiolabs HAILSTONE but I didn't notice that I can't load third party IRs,i bought it because is on sale,but a regular price is expensive if i cant load third party IRs,plugin only come with a few cabs

I'm sure you can bypass the cabs. So just do that and slap one of the several IR loaders behind it.

 

[NightWalker]

I'm sure you can bypass the cabs. So just do that and slap one of the several IR loaders behind it.

use another IR loader with the Hailstone cab plugin?that doesn't make sense,the idea is to load third party IRs with this plugin,like i can do with Cab-Lab 4,Wall of Sound

 

[Sascha Franck]

use another IR loader with the Hailstone cab plugin?that doesn't make sense,the idea is to load third party IRs with this plugin,like i can do with Cab-Lab 4,Wall of Sound

Oh I see, this is a cab-only plugin. Well, in that case, it makes sense that you can't load your own IRs. They simply want you to purchase theirs.

 

[NightWalker]

They simply want you to purchase theirs.

yes,but the plugin regular price is expensive for only a few cabinets,before this plugin was released i bought some Giacomo Pasquali IR packs but i cant use those IRs with this plugin

 

[dreamist]

I feel the numbers for Fuse Audio Labs plugins are very far off. Their pedal plugins always feel undergained to me and required a lot of boost to sound closer to other similar plugins from other manufacturers. Their TubeScreamer in Dozer Drive, for example, is extremely clean if I calibrate to the values presented on the table.