Stuff

[EOengineer]

I was on team “helix drives are close enough” for several years but that position has softened considerably in the last year or two after starting to pull old drive pedals out of the closet again.

Digital drives can get the job done, and I will reach for them in certain environments where I need to limit tap dancing or need a ton of different sounds, but I just can’t seem to reproduce my favorite analog drive pedals in a straight A/B test with anything I’ve tried in the digital realm.

I’m not sure it’s the actual tonality versus something happening with dynamics and levels that isn’t balancing/interacting with the rest of the chain like the analog stuff.

 

[Eagle]

Digital drive in to a tube amp can sound ok but the dynamic feel is ruined. I think using a drive block in my Axe works far better. I keep my analog dry signal analog in my tube gear primarily for the feel.

 

[laxu]

Digital drive in to a tube amp can sound ok but the dynamic feel is ruined. I think using a drive block in my Axe works far better. I keep my analog dry signal analog in my tube gear primarily for the feel.

I don't agree with that. The Strymon Riverside has worked totally fine into any amp I've tried, and I recently ran the Hotone A2 Stomp's drives into my BluGuitar and the equivalent models behaved near exactly like the Bluesbreaker and OCD sides of my DIY Browne Protein clone.

In the past I got the Helix's OCD and Klon models to sound so close to the Keeley D&M Drive that I sold the Keeley. These were run into a Bogner Goldfinger 45 SL.

While digital adds a bit of latency, well done drive models can work just fine, but digital drives are not all built equal. I think digital fuzz is more problematic as it often does not respond right to turning down the volume knob on your guitar, or varying the sound with picking dynamics.

 

[Eagle]

I don't agree with that. The Strymon Riverside has worked totally fine into any amp I've tried, and I recently ran the Hotone A2 Stomp's drives into my BluGuitar and the equivalent models behaved near exactly like the Bluesbreaker and OCD sides of my DIY Browne Protein clone.

In the past I got the Helix's OCD and Klon models to sound so close to the Keeley D&M Drive that I sold the Keeley. These were run into a Bogner Goldfinger 45 SL.

While digital adds a bit of latency, well done drive models can work just fine, but digital drives are not all built equal. I think digital fuzz is more problematic as it often does not respond right to turning down the volume knob on your guitar, or varying the sound with picking dynamics.

I haven’t played one I would use and I don’t like using Axe models 4cm with tube amps I’ve gone back to axe in a mixer and all analog in front.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I normally like the drive pedals in Helix, but don't use it in a 4cm method or anything. I still prefer the feel and tone of real drive pedals hitting an amp (that includes hitting a virtual amp). It's just more present and ballsy, faster attack as well.

 

[ChordInversion]

Kindly try a Boss OD-1X

It is not a multi effect. But I enjoyed hearing it's sounds. Couldn't afford it because even a used one was kinda pricey for me.

I like the OD-1X, the DS-1X, and the Source Audio Kingmaker.

 

[joebloggs]

I really like the helix drives when used with amp models and studio monitors or for digitally recording. I don't really like them into the front of my amp though, my analogue pedals work better for me.

This^^^... I tried a Helix stomp for a month. I used it with my amps. I a/b it with all my pedals, and every time the Helix came up short. Pretty quickly I came to the conclusion that the Helix was just not for me.

 

[banned]

No.

But the Helix KWB OD pedal is pretty special and wonderfully transparent and I can't find an analog counterpart.

Isn't it weird how Fractal, L6 etc can get amp models so right but not (what one would presume) the simpler pedal models as close sounding / feeling to their analog counterparts?

 

[ChordInversion]

I also note that I pretty rarely use drive pedals in my modelers. I will use digital drive pedals into amps, and I will use modelers as a way to "turn up" amps. It's not out of not liking the modeler drives. I just don't think to do it as often. I should give them more of a chance.

 

[Frodebro]

That is the other side of this. To use a digital drive almost implies using it in 4cm. Who would just use the helix into the front of their amp without using effects in the loop?

They don't all do 4cm equally well.

It depends on the amp. Typically I prefer running 4CM, but I have experimented with running my FM9 straight into the front of my Studio JTM. I have the amp itself dialed in to just past clean, so straight in works just fine. The downside, though, is that I give up a volume control in the loop. I have been running a post preamp volume pedal in all of my traditional rigs for the past thirty years, so it’s something I have come to use frequently. And with a non master volume amp like the Marshall, it is even handier.

 

[dronerstone]

I believe the HX drives do a legit job, tbh.

The ones I was able to A/B to their analog counterparts performed well enough. The knob positions might not always be 1:1 but they'll get you there.

 

[FuzzyAce]

That is the other side of this. To use a digital drive almost implies using it in 4cm. Who would just use the helix into the front of their amp without using effects in the loop?

They don't all do 4cm equally well.

I've yet to run my HX or VP4 in 4CM surprisingly. I've only used them for recording or through FR cabs. May get around to it this weekend though.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Im a huge fan of the Strymon Sunset and Riverside. With those two pedals on a board I feel I lack nothing in the drive department aside from a boost with EQ. It’s really hard to beat the Sunset as an OD/distortion pedal.

 

[Orvillain]

I mean, ultimately, if it sounds good it is good. When I was using Helix more or less exclusively, I wasn't using the drives, but I was using the Xenmorph Fuzz. That is hands down the best fuzz in the digital realm, across ANY platform. IMO.

The drives do the job on it. But I was always more into using an EQ to craft the front-end, pre-distortion.

With the Axe FX III, they sound great out of the box. Quite a lot of them are very loud though; the default output levels seem quite hot. This is particularly noticeable in front of a real amps clean channel. Is okay. Just means you have to tweak it.

My real SD1-waza is great as a boost, or as a mellow-ish edgy tone that I can play some leads with. My real TS808 is okay. I'm not a huge TS guy tbh; again... I prefer an EQ.

And thinking about it... maybe this is why I've really taken to the Mark V. Coz as an amp its topology matches how I was approaching gain tones all along anyway!

 

[Sascha Franck]

I think the quality of virtual drive pedals wildly varies. Out of the HX universe, I could directly compare my TS-808 and an ODR-1 and both sound a lot different in the HX. In case of the TS I might prefer the internal one, in case of the ODR, I defenitely like the original more. Also, I never understood how the HX fuzzes could get that much praise, I think they're pretty bad, at least compared to the ones in, say, Amplitube - and that is even with the HX ones fed with a properly lowered input impedance.
I also like the Minotaur but can't tell how it would compare to the original I owned ages ago.
Also had a Zendrive once, I remember it as being quite different from the Dhyanna drive. I'm now using a JRockett "The Dude" and there's just nothing comparable inside the HX-verse.
And I think an original Timmy is somewhat more punchy than a Teemah.
I also really like the "Ultradrive" from Two Notes' Genome, supposedly modeling an SD-1, but I seem to like the Genome one much more (but again: it's ages ago that I sold my SD-1).
And I really love the Top Secret drive in the HX, kinda located between overdrive and fuzz, great for volume pot work. Never played the original DOD, though.

In general, while I really don't care for analog amp controls much anymore, with dirt pedals it's just nice to have them sitting next to me within hand's reach. Especially when stacking drives, it doesn't get any more efficient. Makes up for a better sound, too, as I simply don't give up as quickly.

 

[ballhawk]

The digital overdrive and distortion models on my Korg A3 rack unit from the '80s are so cool, unique effects that have harmonics in interesting places. Love them.

I used the A3 in an original band around 1990 and agree 100% with you. It had great time-based effects too. Should have never sold it.

I remember the sales guy corrected me every time I called it a preamp. He'd say "no it's a signal processor". He finally gave up. Of course he was exactly right.

I don't hear "digital" as a tonal characteristic.

Neither do I. I only hear like vs. don't like.

 

[Cirrus]

I used the A3 in an original band around 1990 and agree 100% with you. It had great time-based effects too. Should have never sold it.

I remember the sales guy corrected me every time I called it a preamp. He'd say "no it's a signal processor". He finally gave up. Of course he was exactly right.

Oh, nice to see someone who used it in the wild!

Yes, agree re; the time based stuff. I love the reverb so much I've patched it in to use in some mixes I've been working on.

 

[ballhawk]

If @Cirrus or anyone else is interested, I left a short vid clip in the media section. That was an interesting band.

I've never done media uploading before and I'm not sure if it will work. Hopefully it does.

 

[spawnofthesith]

More than pedals? No but I’ve been perfectly happy in a handful of gigging scenarios using HX drives in front of a deluxe reverb

 

[FuzzyAce]

I mean, ultimately, if it sounds good it is good. When I was using Helix more or less exclusively, I wasn't using the drives, but I was using the Xenmorph Fuzz. That is hands down the best fuzz in the digital realm, across ANY platform. IMO.

Your post reminded of the digital fuzz in the Dr. Scientist BitQuest pedal. It's really good. The fact that you have a wet/dry blend option just adds to the coolness, so running an OD pre Biquest gives some cool tonal options for example. And of course the fuzz can be run with any of the onboard effects like the filter or flanger, which are both awesome as well. Powerful pedal.