Stuff

[Shredder777]

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[Desertdweller]

I know that an IR can be used to capture speaker response. But can it be used to capture amp and speaker?

Yes. In fact most every IR out there is captured using a clean solid state power amp, so you're hearing the amp, cab, and mic in every IR basically. Ola Englund has a few IRs that used his amps so you get their power section coloration.

 

[PLX]

I know that an IR can be used to capture speaker response. But can it be used to capture amp and speaker?

Yes.

And you're also getting colorization/gain from whatever mic pre-amp they used while performing the capture.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I know that an IR can be used to capture speaker response. But can it be used to capture amp and speaker?

It’s not going to capture non-linear aspects (compression, distortion) of the amp (or preamp or eq) in the signal chain.

 

[Vic Winters]

I haven't purchased from them in a while, but 3 Sigma Audio would give you 2 versions of the same IR. One through a clean SS amp and one through a 5150. You can tell the difference between the two versions.

 

[quadgear]

The title and the OP say two different things:

1. Title: Can an IR capture Cab (not speaker)
   • Answer: Yes
2. OP: Can an IR captures Amp + Speaker?
   • Answer: No, an IR cannot capture an amp (but it can handle a speaker)

Unless the OP/title is cleaned, all responses need a bit of clarification as to which question is being discussed. Or we can go around in circles....

 

[PLX]

Or we can go around in circles....

You're new to these forums, aren't you.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

So basically, the answer is "no". Thanks.

Not really. I mean, you can't capture an IR of a speaker without an amp attached the speaker.

Your questions is not at all clear -- the title "cabinet simulation (not speaker)" -- the IR is a capture of whatever the mic is hearing.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, I once captured some IRs of tube poweramps (because I tried to slap a setup together using AITB pedals, which usually only cover the preamp portion of an amp). I knew it'd only capture the frequency response but nothing dynamic (compression or even distortion), still kinda elevated things a bit. At first I thought "ok, let me just recreate those EQ curves using a real EQ", but it never really worked as the captured IRs are representing pretty complexed curves.
So maybe sometimes it makes sense to capture amp IRs (not too sure about preamps, though - I mean, we have them as models in spades).

Fwiw, I think I still have these IRs somewhere, so in case someone's interested...

 

[Sascha Franck]

I was thinking about capturing the power amp sim and IR together from the IR-X. The reason? So I can run the sim in my MFX processor, and that would give me ability to have preamp out to amp, and simulated out for simultaneous recording.

There is something going on in the IR-X with the bottom end that sounds tighter and more credible than what I've been using. Its subtle, but also makes a big difference with playing dynamics. It could just be the tubes.

This will likely not work. The tightness you're experiencing very likely is a result of whatever non-linear behaviour of the IR-X. And you won't be able to capture that with an IR.

 

[nicolasrivera]

I know that an IR can be used to capture speaker response. But can it be used to capture amp and speaker?

An IR is a capture of whatever amplification methoed was used and the speaker proyecting it, also the MIC used to capture that proyected sound.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

An IR is a capture of whatever amplification methoed was used and the speaker proyecting it, also the MIC used to capture that proyected sound.

Unless you remove that information from the IR. It’s possible (and easy) to use a tube amplifier with negative feedback etc and still end up with a clean IR without poweramp colouration.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Unless you remove that information from the IR. It’s possible (and easy) to use a tube amplifier with negative feedback etc and still end up with a clean IR without poweramp colouration.

Via reverse Match EQ trickery or by phase cancellation?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Via reverse Match EQ trickery or by phase cancellation?

Just via convolution. It’s like a maths equation where you work out what information you want to cancel out, and what you want left behind.

If you deconvolve with a clean sine wave, the poweramp colouration is going to be in the IR. If you convolve with a signal that has the poweramp colouration on it, then it won’t be in the resulting IR.

 

[Sascha Franck]

If you deconvolve with a clean sine wave, the poweramp colouration is going to be in the IR. If you convolve with a signal that has the poweramp colouration on it, then it won’t be in the resulting IR.

Ah yeah, that kinda crossed my mind as well, but I wasn't too sure whether anything like that would work.

 

[djd100]

If you want to capture a tube power amp with/without a speaker or IR, try ToneX, Quad Cortex, Kemper, or NAM etc, they can do that to a reasonable degree, where as a IR cannot.

 

[laxu]

Just via convolution. It’s like a maths equation where you work out what information you want to cancel out, and what you want left behind.

If you deconvolve with a clean sine wave, the poweramp colouration is going to be in the IR. If you convolve with a signal that has the poweramp colouration on it, then it won’t be in the resulting IR.

So how would you make that? You first record a sine wave through the poweramp only, and then use that signal for deconvolving? I guess you'd have to tap that from the amp speaker out, with the cab you want to use as the load if you want the most accurate results.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

So how would you make that? You first record a sine wave through the poweramp only, and then use that signal for deconvolving? I guess you'd have to tap that from the amp speaker out, with the cab you want to use as the load if you want the most accurate results.

Yeah exactly. You can tap the amp di and mic’d signal in the same pass even. And it’s very easy to verify the accuracy with this method