Stick with Mac or move to Windows?

[JasonE]

I find myself faced with a decision on my recording setup again. I use a Mac Book Pro with the Apple 27" display connected to it. This gives me 2 screens to work with. I like that feature. My Mac Book is old enough that it hasn't been able to receive updates for a while now. That has been kind of good because I haven't had any updates mess my other software up in a while. On the downside I haven't been able to update Logic to the newest version. I use Logic Pro and I also have Final Cut Pro.

Here is the decision. I need to figure out if it is worth it to just upgrade the Mac to a new Mac or move over to Windows.

The cost of the Mac is going to be big. I would need a new Mac Book Pro and a new Display if I want to keep things similar to what I have now. I thought about going with one of the smaller Mac machines and a new display. I have the magic mouse and keyboard that I can use with a new system. One benefit of staying with a Mac is that Logic and Final Cut are already paid for and will not require me to pay an annual fee to keep them updated. I do have another expensive application that I use with the Mac that does cost me a bit each year to keep it updated.

If I go with a Windows machine, I have a number of options. The machines are much cheaper as are the monitors. I can pay a cross grade fee on the other software I use no the Mac to move it over to Windows. It is not an insignificant feel. I think it is $300 or $400 bucks to do that. My hardware will work on a Windows machine just as it does with the Mac. The drawback is that I will have to switch to a different DAW and find software for video editing to replace Final Cut. I do have Cubase and Reaper (purchased). I would need to look to see if I can still get the new version of Cubase for free. I am close to that time period where the free upgrades run out. I also have Cakewalk. I am not sure what Windows DAWs may be as complete as Logic for virtual instruments. I supposed I may be ablet to buy software to add that to just about and DAW. This setup would probably put me in a situation where I would have to pay for upgrades every year or two.

The dilemma for me is should I pay huge money for the new hardware or spend a lot less and then end up spending money on software upkeep going forward.

Have any of you made the switch? Did you regret it after a year or two?

What Mac machines would be good for what I want to use it for. The biggest complaint I have about the one I have now is that it really doesn't have enough hard drive space. That seems to be really expensive with Apple for some reason. I am not too sure how I feel about plugging in external drives to it. I have one plugged into my current rig and it has been working decently.

I have kicked this can down the road for the past few years. I have had my Mac for 10 years this year so it has lasted a good while. I do have a Windows laptop that I might consider using for this that I bought a few years ago. It has pretty good hardware and a big HD in it.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

why would you need a new display? Can’t you use your existing one with a new computer?

I’d stick with Apple personally, I’m not sure the trade off would be worth the hassle of switching. The current M4 stuff is so powerful vs what it costs, I think it’s hard to go wrong

 

[spawnofthesith]

If the main focus of the rig is recording I’d stick with Apple 100%

 

[HomespunEffects]

I just switched back to Apple. I’m not going back to Windows ever again.

 

[Mikael Dez]

I find myself faced with a decision on my recording setup again. I use a Mac Book Pro with the Apple 27" display connected to it. This gives me 2 screens to work with. I like that feature. My Mac Book is old enough that it hasn't been able to receive updates for a while now. That has been kind of good because I haven't had any updates mess my other software up in a while. On the downside I haven't been able to update Logic to the newest version. I use Logic Pro and I also have Final Cut Pro.

Here is the decision. I need to figure out if it is worth it to just upgrade the Mac to a new Mac or move over to Windows.

The cost of the Mac is going to be big. I would need a new Mac Book Pro and a new Display if I want to keep things similar to what I have now. I thought about going with one of the smaller Mac machines and a new display. I have the magic mouse and keyboard that I can use with a new system. One benefit of staying with a Mac is that Logic and Final Cut are already paid for and will not require me to pay an annual fee to keep them updated. I do have another expensive application that I use with the Mac that does cost me a bit each year to keep it updated.

If I go with a Windows machine, I have a number of options. The machines are much cheaper as are the monitors. I can pay a cross grade fee on the other software I use no the Mac to move it over to Windows. It is not an insignificant feel. I think it is $300 or $400 bucks to do that. My hardware will work on a Windows machine just as it does with the Mac. The drawback is that I will have to switch to a different DAW and find software for video editing to replace Final Cut. I do have Cubase and Reaper (purchased). I would need to look to see if I can still get the new version of Cubase for free. I am close to that time period where the free upgrades run out. I also have Cakewalk. I am not sure what Windows DAWs may be as complete as Logic for virtual instruments. I supposed I may be ablet to buy software to add that to just about and DAW. This setup would probably put me in a situation where I would have to pay for upgrades every year or two.

The dilemma for me is should I pay huge money for the new hardware or spend a lot less and then end up spending money on software upkeep going forward.

Have any of you made the switch? Did you regret it after a year or two?

What Mac machines would be good for what I want to use it for. The biggest complaint I have about the one I have now is that it really doesn't have enough hard drive space. That seems to be really expensive with Apple for some reason. I am not too sure how I feel about plugging in external drives to it. I have one plugged into my current rig and it has been working decently.

I have kicked this can down the road for the past few years. I have had my Mac for 10 years this year so it has lasted a good while. I do have a Windows laptop that I might consider using for this that I bought a few years ago. It has pretty good hardware and a big HD in it.

I have been a Mac admin at a university for the last 4 years, recently got a new job as a Linux Server dude. Go with Apple.

 

[Mikael Dez]

I just switched back to Apple. I’m not going back to Windows ever again.

Windows can suck a fat one. Every time I have to use that OS I feel like some brain cells are lost to the void

 

[norminal]

I haven’t used Windows since XP, and that was only because my job required it. So I can only recommend Mac OS.

Hard to go wrong with the new Mac Minis.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

I was at this crossroads a year ago and jumped from Mac to PC although I hadn't invested in any proprietary software like Logic or FCP. The prices and lack of USB connectivity were enough to drive my decision.

I'm happy with my PC build, but miss things about my Mac Mini like aggregate audio devices and less overall machine noise in my audio signals.

 

[TSJMajesty]

You can't use any monitor with any computer?? As long as it is HDMI, I can plug my TV's into my laptop. And every computer I've owned from ~2005 has supported up to 2 additional monitors. (I've always used PC, but I rarely record. But I do use a fairly intensive CAD program.)

 

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

Considering it took Apple about a decade+ to get on the "higher than 60Hz refresh rate" monitor technology bandwagon that PCs and TVs have been enjoying for the same amount of time:

Oh and:

You get more power for your $ with a PC.

When buying an Apple product, a significant portion of the cost is attributed to the brand itself, with estimates suggesting that around 30-40% of the price can be considered the "brand premium" due to Apple's reputation for quality, design, and exclusivity, meaning that even if a similar product from another company had a lower manufacturing cost, Apple can charge considerably more due to its brand image.



Key points to remember:

• High gross profit margin:
  Apple consistently maintains a high gross profit margin, which indicates a substantial gap between the cost of producing a product and its selling price, further highlighting the brand premium element.
• 
  
• Premium pricing strategy:
  Apple actively employs a premium pricing strategy, positioning their products at a higher price point compared to competitors.

You also get a lot (a lot) more software options with a PC. Remember, Apple decided their dicks were too big to use Intel CPUs anymore, so they came up with their own (M-series chips). Software companies now have to write their software separately just for the M-series, and some don't even want to bother. Macs were always behind PCs with software availability/options, now they're even more behind.

Steve Jobs is rolling over in his grave.

Tim Cook is a chumPPP.

Apple is the Gibson of computers.

 

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

That seems to be really expensive with Apple for some reason.

Everything is way more expensive with Apple, including mundane items like SSDs that shouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

One other thing I just remembered:

I recently spec'd out a (gasp) Mac Studio for my wife a month ago. I did some research and it turns out that it seems these things aren't upgradable:





Maybe they are now, but even if that is the case, I doubt it's something the average Joe Schmoe could pull off.

Caveat emptor.

 

[laxu]

I'd stick to Apple because it's what you are used to.

I have no doubt you would be able to do just fine with Windows. I use both and don't really think about it. A lot of the software is the same (or has equivalents) and each system has their own share of dumb shit stuff.

Since you have a Windows laptop already, try e.g Davince Resolve as an alternative to Final Cut, and Cubase or Reaper for a DAW. You should quickly find out whether that's a suitable solution for you, or if you prefer the familiarity of Final Cut and Logic.

Apple will gouge the absolute shit out of you for RAM and SSD, and their non-upgradeable nature means you have to anticipate your future needs. To make the hit a bit less, you could look at slightly older models like the M2 and M3 Pro/Max series. They will perform mostly the same as the latest M4. I would avoid only M1 because its display capabilities are much worse.

To me the main products worth considering in Apple's Mac lineup are the Macbook Pro M2/3/4 Pro/Max and Mac Mini M4. For the Mac Mini, you want more than the baseline 256 GB disk space at least. Apple's own AI bullshit is already taking something like 9 GB whether you use it or not.

The Mac Studio sits in a weird place where it is not yet updated to M4, and doesn't really scale up in performance like you'd think from its larger size/cooling. For many tasks the Macbook Pro will perform about the same.

 

[JasonE]

why would you need a new display? Can’t you use your existing one with a new computer?

I’d stick with Apple personally, I’m not sure the trade off would be worth the hassle of switching. The current M4 stuff is so powerful vs what it costs, I think it’s hard to go wrong

You can't use any monitor with any computer?? As long as it is HDMI, I can plug my TV's into my laptop. And every computer I've owned from ~2005 has supported up to 2 additional monitors. (I've always used PC, but I rarely record. But I do use a fairly intensive CAD program.)

I think they changed the connection type with the newer machines and I am not sure the one I have would work with it. It is an Apple specific, not an HDMI, connector that passes video and audio to the display, which has two speakers in the back of it. It was a really nice display in it's day. I have had it for nearly 10 years.

You also get a lot (a lot) more software options with a PC. Remember, Apple decided their dicks were too big to use Intel CPUs anymore, so they came up with their own (M-series chips). Software companies now have to write their software separately just for the M-series, and some don't even want to bother. Macs were always behind PCs with software availability/options, now they're even more behind.

Steve Jobs is rolling over in his grave.

Tim Cook is a chumPPP.

Apple is the Gibson of computers.

This is a good point. My Mac Book Pro has an Intel processor in it. I have seen a few videos showing that the new version of Logic isn't even using the horsepower of the M4 chip. It is only running on one core of it. That was another concern of mine. If their own software isn't being built to use the power of their new chips what is the point of buying that new big processor?


I think my biggest concern is getting myself into a situation where I am spending a lot of money each year keeping my software up to date if I to with a Windows machine. I honestly prefer Windows. I work with it daily and it is what I have on my personal machines. The system I am thinking about upgrading has the sole purpose of being used with audio and video. The new system would have the same dedication. I am just not a fan of this annual expense for software. I moved away from ProTools for that very reason. I got very tired of paying $200 per year to keep the licensing that I had. I don't make money with this so it is all out of pocket.

 

[laxu]

I think they changed the connection type with the newer machines and I am not sure the one I have would work with it. It is an Apple specific, not an HDMI, connector that passes video and audio to the display, which has two speakers in the back of it. It was a really nice display in it's day. I have had it for nearly 10 years.

That's either the Apple Cinema Display with what seems to be Mini Displayport connector, or the Thunderbolt display that followed it. You might be able to get an adapter dongle or cable for either of these.

This is a good point. My Mac Book Pro has an Intel processor in it. I have seen a few videos showing that the new version of Logic isn't even using the horsepower of the M4 chip. It is only running on one core of it. That was another concern of mine. If their own software isn't being built to use the power of their new chips what is the point of buying that new big processor?

It doesn't seem to use the Efficiency cores, but it uses the Performance cores. They have plenty of those as is and will massively outperform your Intel CPU.

I think my biggest concern is getting myself into a situation where I am spending a lot of money each year keeping my software up to date if I to with a Windows machine. I honestly prefer Windows. I work with it daily and it is what I have on my personal machines. The system I am thinking about upgrading has the sole purpose of being used with audio and video. The new system would have the same dedication. I am just not a fan of this annual expense for software. I moved away from ProTools for that very reason. I got very tired of paying $200 per year to keep the licensing that I had. I don't make money with this so it is all out of pocket.

There's rarely any real requirement for buying the updates unless they come with features you want.

Logic and Final Cut are certainly a bit of a special case since there's no upgrade costs.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Those m series chips are no joke. Our film/video and graphic design labs are outfitted with M1 chip iMacs. The film professor had to be convinced that a base model M1 would perform better than the fully loaded iMacs they were replacing - and he was happily surprised at how stable the labs are. Apple’s software and hardware are finally at a really solid place - equivalently priced Windows laptops and Desktops (even $3000 gaming desktops for our game design major) aren’t as reliable and consistent.

Apple IS more expensive, and limiting as far as hardware upgrades go, but it’ll last 10 years.

 

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

More facts for thought, some directly from the horse's mouth and others from experienced professionals:

Mac Mini Upgrading:

Upgrade or install memory in your Mac mini - Apple Support

Learn how to remove or install memory into your Mac mini computer.

support.apple.com

2024, 2023, 2020​

Memory is integrated into the Apple M-series chip package in Mac mini (2024), Mac mini (2023), and Mac mini (M1, 2020) and can't be upgraded. You can configure the memory in your Mac mini when you purchase it.

Mac Studio Upgrading (December 4, 2024):

How to Replace/Upgrade Mac Studio SSD (2022/2023): EveryMac.com

How to replace or upgrade the Mac Studio internal SSD storage (A2615, 2022; A2091, 2023).

everymac.com

Unfortunately, just because the Mac Studio storage is removable, it does not appear that it is straightforward to upgrade. There seem to be limitations even beyond the essentially unnecessary use of proprietary storage modules.


Although early speculation contained some inaccuracies -- as is not uncommon during the "fog of war" after the release of new Apple hardware -- ArsTechnica made a solid effort to explain the technical limitations of the storage in recent Apple Macs:

Starting with the Apple T2 chip and continuing into the Apple Silicon era, Apple began building storage controllers directly into its own chips instead [of including the controller on the storage module]. This means that the Mac Studio's SSD cards, while removable instead of soldered down, are just NAND plus what [Linux on Apple Silicon developer Hector Martin] calls a 'raw NAND controller/bridge.' They aren't self-contained SSDs that can be swapped in and out at will, as they can on a PC

 

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

Of course (apparently), if you think you're a real pro at soldering, you theoretically could crack open your Mini or Studio and try literally soldering stuff to upgrade:

Mac Studio Storage Upgrade Success


In China, highly skilled hardware hackers using specialized equipment have been able to desolder RAM and storage from a MacBook Air M1 and resolder higher capacity RAM and storage that subsequently was recognized by the macOS. In China, this kind of challenging swap has been fairly common for storage upgrades on the iPhone for many years now, so it is likely that these reports are genuine and such upgrades can work for Apple Silicon Macs, as well.


Naturally, this type of desolder-resolder upgrade is vastly more difficult than anything involving a removable module.


More recently, the also highly skilled "DOS Dude" likewise was able to successfully remove the original storage from a Mac Studio and solder larger capacity, blank NAND storage (KICM223) onto reverse engineered storage modules, and then restore the firmware:

Looks like Apple is going for the "disposable computer" model.

Need to upgrade and aren't a professional electrical engineer, or have shaky hands (see video)? Throw your current one in the trash and buy a new one.

And check this out (1 year ago) regarding cost-to-performance Mac vs PC:

Mac Studio M2 Ultra Performance at Half the Cost (PC build) [liquid cooled as well]​

 

[ᛗᛜᛜᚺDᛜᎶ Ꮤᛨᚳᚴ]

I am not going down the road again of Mac vs PC, but I will offer these bits based on your situation Jason ;~))

1. If you buy a very expensive computer, but only want to use free software that you never need to pay for upgrades on, you are likely not taking advantage of the abilities of that high end computer. I am not saying you can't take advantage of that processing power with free software, but if the mindset is "this free software does everything I need", you are not cutting edge and therefore likely do not need the top of the line processing power.

2. If you have an external drive, you can have tons of storage space for cheap. If you want to use it as a VST libraries drive or anything demanding, be sure that it is a "non-moving parts" type drive (like SSD) and connected through a fast interface (Thunderbolt, USB C, etc.). For long term storage and archiving, an old school spinning disk drive is fine and you can get 8TB for $120 if you watch for sales.

3. If you are mostly using it for audio recording, and fairly basic video editing, a newish build from either of the two evil empires will work fine. If on the other hand, you are doing audio tracks with 63 channels with 8 effects on each channel and 10 VST instruments, you will want high end big processing power. Same thing goes with video editing. If you are just taking pix/video from your latest vacation and making slideshows set to music, no big deal but if you are using advanced layer blending and lot's of advanced effects in the videos (that do not come with free software), more processing power will make your life a lot smoother.

My most recent build was Jan '23. Gigabyte 690 Elite AX DDR4 motherboard, 4 M.2 drives (system drive, backup system drive and two working drives, one for audio stuff, one for video stuff). I also have one SSD drive and one 7200 RPM drive in the box. 128GB DDR4 RAM (shunned the DDR5 based on pricing at that time and no need for it's speed in my workflow). I think I have about 6 8TB external drives for backups (lot's of movies I have ripped from my bluray and dvd discs, tons of music, hundreds of thousands of pix taken on vacations and videos from the same, client backups, etc.) and another half a dozen 5TB, 4TB externals as well. I think that build cost me about a grand, but I already had the case, power supply and all cables I needed, graphics card - ~$400, etc. It does not hickup with anything I throw at it.

Best wishes and let me know if there is anything I can help with or consult on if you go the build route ;~)) NOW MAKE SOME MUSIC!!!!!!!

 

[JasonE]

It is the building what looks to be disposable computers from Apple that bothers me. I haven't had to upgrade a system of mine very often because I usually buy higher end when buying technology. I used to build all of my own systems in the past and would definitely consider that an option if I go with a Windows machine. However, if I needed to upgrade something I would rather be able to do that and not have to buy another computer. I can solder but I am not fond of having to do that to upgrade the computer.

I am also not planning on using free software. I don't mind having to buy software. What I would like to avoid is getting into software that I have to keep updating every year or two. I have no intent of getting back into a an annual license fee like I had with ProTools. That is why I purchased Reaper and Cubase a couple of years ago. I was trying to figure out whether to buy Logic or use one of these other applications. I used Reaper very early on when it came out. I was free back then. The cost of it is very small for what it does today. I would need to find a virtual instrument add on for it if I went that route. I didn't get far enough into Cubase to find out what all it has in it for plugins and instruments, if any at all.

 

[spawnofthesith]

The nice thing about Macs is that I've rarely felt or encountered any sort of need to upgrade one and they've always maintained a much longer useful life than most PCs I've had, much unlike the never ending rabbit hole/money pit when one gets into PC building




If I was still into gaming I'd definitely be rocking a home built PC, but for literally any other application I vastly prefer apple


"sadly posted from my HP work laptop"