So, When are You MFrs Ready to Give Up?

[Aelred]

The person using the AI bot material can be sued.

Really? The stuff I see from a quick search is about suing Microsoft and Open AI, not people using it.

But it was just a quick search. The Websites often mention "royalty-free".

I tend to think of it as assistance for content creation of videos, like someone taking some footage from a Drone and wanting some music to go with it, but aren’t a musician and don’t want to get copyright and royalty hits. A lot of Content is not created by big companies and pro producers anymore.

Hire an orchestra or band for some home drone footage? WTF?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Really? The stuff I see from a quick search is about suing Microsoft and Open AI, not people using it.

But it was just a quick search. The Websites often mention "royalty-free".

Right, that’s one concern, and those are deep pockets. But if I make a video and include a song (or video clip or whatever) that allegedly violates someone’s intellectual property rights, I also have liability exposure.

 

[Aelred]

Right, that’s one concern, and those are deep pockets. But if I make a video and include a song (or video clip or whatever) that allegedly violates someone’s intellectual property rights, I also have liability exposure.

Which is why the sites say they make "royalty free" tunes. Is the person using the tool up for it or the company saying they create royalty free stuff?

The legal system has lagged behind technology and intellectual property for many years now. It's a mess.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Which is why the sites say they make "royalty free" tunes. Is the person using the tool up for it or the company saying they create royalty free stuff?

The legal system has lagged behind technology and intellectual property for many years now. It's a mess.

I mean, I could advertise that I’m selling lawful cocaine. Does that get the person off the hook?

Royalty free meaning I don’t have to pay a royalty to the AI company. But if the AI not kicks out a tune that has almost identical melody to “Shout at the Devil” but has the lyrics “shout at the bevel”, then whoever owns the Motley Cru catalog has the right to ask me to stop using it and to sue me if I refuse.

 

[Aelred]

I mean, I could advertise that I’m selling lawful cocaine. Does that get the person off the hook?

Royalty free meaning I don’t have to pay a royalty to the AI company. But if the AI not kicks out a tune that has almost identical melody to “Shout at the Devil” but has the lyrics “shout at the bevel”, then whoever owns the Motley Cru catalog has the right to ask me to stop using it and to sue me if I refuse.

We seem to be talking about different things completely. Peace out.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

We seem to be talking about different things completely. Peace out.

Meh, your position was that AI bots not being able to be sued somehow offers a layer of protection to content creators using the product of those AI bots. It does not. They are two separate instances requiring two separate analyses. Just because an AI bot can create something with impunity does not mean others can then go on and use the thing the AI bot with impunity.

 

[Aelred]

Meh, your position was that AI bots not being able to be sued somehow offers a layer of protection to content creators using the product of those AI bots. It does not. They are two separate instances requiring two separate analyses. Just because an AI bot can create something with impunity does not mean others can then go on and use the thing the AI bot with impunity.

I can't see any evidence of people being sued for using, say Beatoven, for content. Maybe you have, but I haven't seen it and can't find it so far.

I'm not talking about pro musicians and composers, just people making videos and want some complimentary music that doesn't get them sued.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I can't see any evidence of people being sued for using, say Beatoven, for content. Maybe you have, but I haven't seen it and can't find it so far.

I'm not talking about pro musicians and composers, just people making videos and want some complimentary music that doesn't get them sued.

Hmm. Okay. Two more thoughts that seem to be where confusion is arising.

(1). I am talking in the theoretical. I have no idea if any of these tools has made available a piece of music so close to another that it would set off alarm bells. IF those tools did create such a piece of music AND alarm bells were set off, if a human was behind that use of the music generated by the tool, they would not be able to use “but an AI tool generated it” as defense. An analogy: if some German band recorded an unauthorized cover of a song that was copyrighted in the US and while I was visiting Germany they sold me a copy of that song telling me it was “free to use however I wanted to”. The copyright owner wouldn’t really be able to sue the German band in the US because everything they did was in Germany (maybe the song doesn’t even have an enforceable copyright in Germany?). But if I threw the cover version in my YouTube video, the copyright holder could sue ME for using/publishing an unauthorized copy of their copyright material. Put another way, for the end user of the “royalty free” music, it doesn’t matter how it was created, it simply matters if their use qualifies as an unauthorized use of copyright material.

(2). Maybe I’m wrong, but you seem to be conflating “get sued” with some sort of YouTube action - copyright strike, demonetization, etc. Those are two different things. YouTube being willing to cave to copyright assertions where the music isn’t actually infringing on a copyright is a whole other bag of worms.

 

[Aelred]

Hmm. Okay. Two more thoughts that seem to be where confusion is arising.

(1). I am talking in the theoretical. I have no idea if any of these tools has made available a piece of music so close to another that it would set off alarm bells. IF those tools did create such a piece of music AND alarm bells were set off, if a human was behind that use of the music generated by the tool, they would not be able to use “but an AI tool generated it” as defense. An analogy: if some German band recorded an unauthorized cover of a song that was copyrighted in the US and while I was visiting Germany they sold me a copy of that song telling me it was “free to use however I wanted to”. The copyright owner wouldn’t really be able to sue the German band in the US because everything they did was in Germany (maybe the song doesn’t even have an enforceable copyright in Germany?). But if I threw the cover version in my YouTube video, the copyright holder could sue ME for using/publishing an unauthorized copy of their copyright material. Put another way, for the end user of the “royalty free” music, it doesn’t matter how it was created, it simply matters if their use qualifies as an unauthorized use of copyright material.

(2). Maybe I’m wrong, but you seem to be conflating “get sued” with some sort of YouTube action - copyright strike, demonetization, etc. Those are two different things. YouTube being willing to cave to copyright assertions where the music isn’t actually infringing on a copyright is a whole other bag of worms.

Yes, I was being a bit casual about "sued" vs copyright and royalty streikes. My bad. I still can't see anyone getting grief for using an AI tool that avoids past tunes etc., theioretically or IRL (so far).

But you keep talking about cover versions by pro musicians, bands and the like. I am not. I am talking about people making online content of some description, my analogy being Drone footage I take myself, and adding complimentary music to it and not gtting any of the above for doing so.

A lot of online Content is not created by pros these days.

Where does one go if one wants to add some music to something then put it online and not risk any grief? Beatoven, Loudly ...?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Yes, I was being a bit casual about "sued" vs copyright and royalty streikes. My bad. I still can't see anyone getting grief for using an AI tool that avoids past tunes etc., theioretically or IRL (so far).

But you keep talking about cover versions by pro musicians, bands and the like. I am not. I am talking about people making online content of some description, my analogy being Drone footage I take myself, and adding complimentary music to it and not gtting any of the above for doing so.

A lot of online Content is not created by pros these days.

Where does one go if one wants to add some music to something then put it online and not risk any grief? Beatoven, Loudly ...?

I think we have gotten as far as we are going to get, but I am trying to make the point that for the guy throwing his drone footage up the only issue is whether the music he puts behind his footage infringes a copyright. For that dude - it doesn’t matter if the music was made by a bot, by professional musicians, or by amateur musicians.

 

[Aelred]

I think we have gotten as far as we are going to get, but I am trying to make the point that for the guy throwing his drone footage up the only issue is whether the music he puts behind his footage infringes a copyright. For that dude - it doesn’t matter if the music was made by a bot, by professional musicians, or by amateur musicians.

Which is why the guy is going to go to Beatoven, Loudly etc... That dude cares about avoiding grief for posting, that's all.

Round and round the mulberry bush we go.

 

[texhex]

It’s all good folks. Someone has already solved the musical melody copyright problem. Bro do you even write melodies? We got your back.

 

[la szum]

I’ve been happily losing money making music ever since I was 14 and got my first job. Even when I was making decent money and got close to it being a career, I couldn’t take the idea of it seriously enough so when it came to an abrupt end, I didn’t give a fuck about the financial side of things.

By the time anyone hears anything I write/record, I’ve already gotten the reasons why I do it, out of it.

I’m not sure this is going to hurt that many musicians, I mean, there are wonderful sounding sample libraries out there, but orchestras still get hired for soundtrack or band work. Is someone going to rely on AI to get exactly what they want when they can call a studio musician they’ve worked with for years that’ll not only get what they want but probably add to it because they have that working relationship? Think of what Tim Pierce did with Goo Goo Dolls “Iris” when he just showed up to play a mandolin part.

Yup. When Legends are getting hosed by the current climate of the music industry and
have to hawk T-shirts and Mugs to make a dime, because touring is so expensive, and
records don't get you no royalties these days, then I think the chances for the average
guy (not that you are!) are well beyond the pale.

Like you said, that doesn't make it one bit less meaningful or fun, though.

 

[la szum]

It’s all good folks. Someone has already solved the musical melody copyright problem. Bro do you even write melodies? We got your back.

Kind of reminds me about the push to buy up the publishing for the catalogs of
all kinds of artists that is still ongoing. It is an investment decision based on the
nature of how Capital works and not one fuckwit to do with art, meaning, or substance.

Commodities are commodities.

 

[PLX]

Commodities are commodities.

Isn't that a Bob Dylan quote ?

 

[la szum]

Isn't that a Bob Dylan quote ?

Nope. Just another Sony Music lyric now.

 

[laxu]

Where does one go if one wants to add some music to something then put it online and not risk any grief?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe social media services these days might even let you choose from copyright/royalty free songs for your posts. Which is why so many videos have that awful "Oh no no no" song in the background...

But the legal ramifications of using an AI song that happens to be super close to some existing song might be something like this:

Owner of the copyright is assumed to be some large music conglomerate here, not the artist.

• Tier 1: Your online content gets a DMCA notice. If your video is monetized, the money might go to the company owning the song. One YouTuber I follow said one of his "walking around in Japan" videos got demonetized because there was some copyrighted music playing from an advertisement truck with a big screen on its side. So it can get weirdly draconian.
• Tier 2: Owner of the copyright sends the company that makes the AI tool a cease&desist letter. Whether anything happens due to it, I don't know. Does the AI company need to pay a royalty to the copyright owner?
• Tier 3: Owner of the copyright sues the company that makes the AI tool. This would probably result in a lengthy legal battle where proving that your copyright was infringed would be an ordeal. I'm sure eventually there will be a precedent ruling for this.

I am seeing increasingly more YT channels using AI generated thumbnails, so AI generated background songs are likely to be a thing soon as well. Instead of "dug out some crappy EDM track from somewhere" so many videos seem to have these days.

Man, I feel for all the young people today. Their attention span is totally messed up from social media, they have to be constantly afraid that their stupid mistakes get posted online, they can't know if anything they see online is real and the people who are now babies will likely grow up listening to AI generated songs performed by AI generated artists.

 

[FuzzyAce]

The points you're making @Boudoir Guitar are right on. It's something that's glazed over a lot and we take for granted. I think as time moves along there will be more lawsuits effecting artists -- and how many will fight it and actually admit they used AI as a source for the writing?

 

[FuzzyAce]

Man, I feel for all the young people today. Their attention span is totally messed up from social media, they have to be constantly afraid that their stupid mistakes get posted online, they can't know if anything they see online is real and the people who are now babies will likely grow up listening to AI generated songs performed by AI generated artists.

Interesting (dark) times for sure.

 

[SKU]

"Anyone can make great music"
Just because anyone plays chords on a guitar or any other instrument or that it is generated by a machine doesn't mean music was created. Music can't even be created, it's there already.