Should flagship modelers keep up with the latest standards?

Iron1 said:
Something Fender has that Helix & AFX don't: Bluetooth app editing. The ability to use my iPhone to edit the tones on my GTX50 is/was a game changer for modeling amps, for me at least. No one wants to fiddle with on-unit editing at a gig, much less bring a laptop to use the interface.

Seems like something L6 & Fractal need to provide asap, if you ask me.
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I want a L6 phone app so bad. It's 2023, I don't want to edit on the floor like a caveman at the gig.

That and I would really love global blocks on this or future iterations.
 
holoholo said:
I want a L6 phone app so bad. It's 2023, I don't want to edit on the floor like a caveman at the gig.
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Yeah well. I think it should be standard for any flagship modeler.
Some people will try to tell you there's no wireless connectivity within the HX series - but a USB cable is still better than crawling on the floor.
 
Honestly, I just want diverse companies with diverse agendas and customer bases making diverse range of products aimed at a diverse set of users. Mix it up. Let’s have a whole bunch of products that I think are dumb as dirt and one that Inlove and loads of others think is dumb as dirt. Keeping up with the Joneses is so :geek:
 
Boudoir Guitar said:
Honestly, I just want diverse companies with diverse agendas and customer bases making diverse range of products aimed at a diverse set of users. Mix it up. Let’s have a whole bunch of products that I think are dumb as dirt and one that Inlove and loads of others think is dumb as dirt. Keeping up with the Joneses is so :geek:
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But we know that's not gonna happen. If product 1 has a touchscreen, users of product 2 will demand one for product 2b. And in case Fractal has killer Marshalls, the Helix needs them, too. Just ask James.
 
Iron1 said:
Something Fender has that Helix & AFX don't: Bluetooth app editing.
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In a conversation about flagships, the current *flagship* Fender modeller ( Tone Master Pro) doesn't have an editor that works via BT either, though we are told it is coming.

FWIW, the Line 6 Firehawk has/had a BT editor.
 
James Freeman said:
Take movable virtual mic for example, QC, Helix and Fractal, all had it within a year of each other.
Scribble strips, color coded footswitches, snapshots, mixed stomp/snap modes, would you buy a new flagship without these?

Some features are so convenient I will be specifically looking for them in my next modeler.
Fenders new flagship TMP was in development for 3 years just to keep up with current modeler standards, it's very expensive and time consuming for companies to enter this well established field and be relevant.

Do you expect the latest innovations/features to be included out-of-the-box in new flagship modelers?
How great features are fixated as 'standard' anyway?
Who are the geniuses that invent the new "must have" features?

@Digital Igloo I know you know a thing or two about this, I would very much like to hear your opinion.
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A "flagship" that's missing an important feature that a similarly priced competitor already has isn't much of a flagship. You can argue "important", but things like capturing and spdif are definitely important. However, if you're going to go to the trouble of coming out with a new modeler in 2023, you should bring something new and innovative. Don't just repackage features that are already available in other modelers. Otherwise you'll get leapfrogged by somebody else very quickly.
 
LP59 said:
A "flagship" that's missing an important feature that a similarly priced competitor already has isn't much of a flagship. You can argue "important", but things like capturing and spdif are definitely important. However, if you're going to go to the trouble of coming out with a new modeler in 2023, you should bring something new and innovative. Don't just repackage features that are already available in other modelers. Otherwise you'll get leapfrogged by somebody else very quickly.
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What was the last digital device that was new and innovative in your opinion
 
James Freeman said:
Take movable virtual mic for example, QC, Helix and Fractal, all had it within a year of each other.
Scribble strips, color coded footswitches, snapshots, mixed stomp/snap modes, would you buy a new flagship without these?
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I would. Whether you've bought into the programmed-consumer mentality vs. the paradigm of tools for making music is the relevant question. If you can create an evocative musical landscape with the tools you have on hand, it won't matter to anyone else what boxes your signal went through to get there. Just a thought....
 
jay mitchell said:
I would. Whether you've bought into the programmed-consumer mentality vs. the paradigm of tools for making music is the relevant question. If you can create an evocative musical landscape with the tools you have on hand, it won't matter to anyone else what boxes your signal went through to get there. Just a thought....
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Yes, and you can also make music with a stick. Some people might 'make music' if their workflow is enjoyable and inspiring. Some might like to struggle to get to the music. It's all good.
 
LP59 said:
A "flagship" that's missing an important feature that a similarly priced competitor already has isn't much of a flagship. You can argue "important", but things like capturing and spdif are definitely important. However, if you're going to go to the trouble of coming out with a new modeler in 2023, you should bring something new and innovative. Don't just repackage features that are already available in other modelers. Otherwise you'll get leapfrogged by somebody else very quickly.
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Very good post. I agree with all points except maybe capturing.
I especially agree with the last sentence.
 
I don't care at all whether there's innovative elements inside the modeler of my dreams. In fact, in case I had to lay out my perfect modeling device, there'd be exactly zero true innovation.
It's much more about the right combinations of things or, the other way around, whether you're missing out on these. Unfortunately, the latter is happening very often (and for no good reason because in many cases it's just a software thing).
 
Me?
I’m still holdin’ onto my trusty Flextone II
for when it’s robot time.
I’ve yet to hear a modeler that can trump’ it.
I remember when I bought that amp was before I noticed grey in my beard & my son told me I was..old.
Line 6 if you want,
-I’ll start an ALL OUT Flextone II parade💯
 
Life Eats Life said:
Me?
I’m still holdin’ onto my trusty Flextone II
for when it’s robot time.
I’ve yet to hear a modeler that can trump’ it.
I remember when I bought that amp was before I noticed grey in my beard & my son told me I was..old.
Line 6 if you want,
-I’ll start an ALL OUT Flextone II parade💯
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Time for a new battery in your hearing aid.:rofl
 
I think the modeling world has the potential to look a lot like synthesizers- Keyboard flagships tend to be workstations that have pulled together all the innovations from their other recent products (or lift from other companies innovations). The Headrush Prime and Fender TMP fit this mold.

What we love is when the overall product is greater than the sum of its parts. There are a lot of keyboard workstations out there, but a few really stood out, like the Korg Triton and Yamaha Motif.

If we broaden our view, Helix might fit the mold. While the HX modeling is their own creation, I’m sure they were influenced by Fractal to take the modeling to the next level. Add in all their prior innovations including non-guitar components like their mixer routing, and what’s left in the Helix that they had not previously done? I guess scribble strips, but we see with the LT and HX Stomp that the magic is still there without them. So the Helix comes from components that are greater than the sum of its parts.

I could imagine a future flagship modeler that brings together some other recent pedal innovations, like the Kernam Ridge and Meris LVX, and puts it into a system that opens up our creativity. I guess Strymon would really be positioned to do this, but it seems like they’re not interested and the market probably couldn’t handle the $4000 they would likely charge for it.
 
ragingplatypi said:
I could imagine a future flagship modeler that brings together some other recent pedal innovations, like the Kernam Ridge and Meris LVX, and puts it into a system that opens up our creativity. I guess Strymon would really be positioned to do this, but it seems like they’re not interested and the market probably couldn’t handle the $4000 they would likely charge for it.
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What would you say are the innovations of the Kernom Ridge and Meris LVX?

The Kernom is a programmable analog drive, which is not that different from e.g what Chase Bliss does with the Automatone, just without the motorized faders. Or what Strymon does with the Compadre for digitally controlled analog comp/boost/drive, or mostly digital with the Riverside and Sunset.

The Meris LVX has such a vile user interface to it that I don't want anyone to take inspiration of it. I can't believe someone designed that thing in this age. Whatever fancy things it can do for control and sounds is entirely lost due to the user experience.

I do agree that there's a lot of inspiration that could be gleaned from keyboards and synths though. There's a lot of "out of the box" thinking there that just doesn't exist for guitar. While some of it ends up being perfect for exactly 5 people, at least developers are trying new things rather than fitting everything into the same paradigm.

I'm curious to see if Line6 especially will do something different for next gen and not just make a "Helix 2.0" with touchscreens and whatnot. I'm less confident in Fractal trying to shake up theirs because their overall workflow is still largely the same as it was in the first gen Axe-Fx.
 
ragingplatypi said:
I guess Strymon would really be positioned to do this, but it seems like they’re not interested and the market probably couldn’t handle the $4000 they would likely charge for it.
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Strymon just needs to release their own version of the HXFX first.
 
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