Riffler / Generative Riff Writing App

[MirrorProfiles]

Stumbled on this generative riff writing app - you can tweak criteria and it’ll spit ideas at you.
It’s pretty amazing how “human” the ideas are. It’s absolutely not “the finished article” but there’s enough stuff that can get you thinking about things differently or just shuffles the pack a bit.

I’ve come up with loads of riffs just using what it throws at me as inspiration - it’s really easy to adjust and hear things in realtime to work out where you’re trying to go with it.

IMO it’s kind of like when you listen to some songs for inspiration, except you can hone in on the riff and interact with what it’s presenting to you. I always feel like my best ideas are when there’s some back and forth with someone else, and this gets closer to that experience than just me staring into blank space trying to work out what I even want to do. Easily the best thing I’ve come across in YEARS for dealing with writers block.

‎Riffler

‎Instantly create unlimited, copyright-free guitar riffs. Just tap "Create" and listen to your new riff. PRESETS The easiest way to get started is to select from the huge list of preset musical styles, tap "Create", and a unique guitar riff will be made. The created riff is displayed as guitar...

apps.apple.com

 

[la szum]

Not very vibey or creative, if you ask me, MP.

ChatGPT for Guitarists? AI? It's everywhere. Literally.

Going to go read some P.K. Dick and rewatch Bladerunner now.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Not very vibey or creative, if you ask me, MP.

ChatGPT for Guitarists? AI? It's everywhere. Literally.

Going to go read some P.K. Dick and rewatch Bladerunner now.

Is it different to listening to music you like and making your own take of it?

Anything we come up with is going to take influence from something else.

Is a Daft Punk or Kanye song any less creative than something that doesn’t involve sampling? Or a photographer who shoots in public rather than on a set?

It’s all about what you do with it and what it leads you to create. Creating anything is infinitely more valuable than trying to justify why one process is better than another.

I’ve seen people write in all kinds of ways that don’t really click or make sense to me. Some people sit in front of guitar pro and just do trial and error before it sounds right. Some people resort to using Oblique Strategies . None of them are more or less correct than others, it’s just about feeling inspired and creating something. If using AI (or similar) tools allows you to be more creative and make more and better work, what’s the issue? If it leads to something new and sparks something that wouldn’t have existed otherwise, then it’s good, no?

It’s kind of like complaining about comping, recording slower/varispeed, autotune, drum editing, vocal tuning, sampling, slip editing, sample replacing, etc. You can either moan about it, or you can try and make the best art you can by whatever means makes the most sense.

BTW Rick Rubin’s book is amazing and touches on topics like this in a very concise and objective way. Fully recommend it.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Is it different to listening to music you like and making your own take of it?

Anything we come up with is going to take influence from something else.

Is a Daft Punk or Kanye song any less creative than something that doesn’t involve sampling? Or a photographer who shoots in public rather than on a set?

It’s all about what you do with it and what it leads you to create. Creating anything is infinitely more valuable than trying to justify why one process is better than another.

I’ve seen people write in all kinds of ways that don’t really click or make sense to me. Some people sit in front of guitar pro and just do trial and error before it sounds right. Some people resort to using Oblique Strategies . None of them are more or less correct than others, it’s just about feeling inspired and creating something. If using AI (or similar) tools allows you to be more creative and make more and better work, what’s the issue? If it leads to something new and sparks something that wouldn’t have existed otherwise, then it’s good, no?

It’s kind of like complaining about comping, recording slower/varispeed, autotune, drum editing, vocal tuning, sampling, slip editing, sample replacing, etc. You can either moan about it, or you can try and make the best art you can by whatever means makes the most sense.

BTW Rick Rubin’s book is amazing and touches on topics like this in a very concise and objective way. Fully recommend it.

That app is fun…thanks for the heads up

And yes Creative Act is great

 

[Sleezy E]

Kinda want to try it, but I've never paid for an app.. and I'd like to keep the streak alive

 

[FuzzyAce]

I draw the line on AI assisting me in writing music. I can't go down that road. The AI art is fun to do in moderation but it's never as fulfilling as creating it from the ground up yourself.

 

[PLX]

I draw the line on AI assisting me in writing music. I can't go down that road. The AI art is fun to do in moderation but it's never as fulfilling as creating it from the ground up yourself.

Damn right, Ace !

I'll stick to doing it the old fashioned way.. stealing old UFO riffs.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I draw the line on AI assisting me in writing music. I can't go down that road. The AI art is fun to do in moderation but it's never as fulfilling as creating it from the ground up yourself.

I wrote 5 song ideas this week which is the most I’ve done for ages. None of them were using Riffler but I don’t see either approach as more or less genuine.

This week my method was;

- going on Splice, finding some percussion loop that caught my ear
- drag the loops into the DAW, sometimes adjust tempo a bit
- several times a day I’d force myself to write 10 different riffs over the loop, until I have like 30-40 different ideas. Some might be chords, some clean, just as many different ideas as I feel inspired by
- after a while I can sift through and arrange the loops into some kind of song structure
- at that point i’ll tweak riffs or work on transitions
- I’ll also program drum midi, which is generally using MIDI loops as a starting point and then adjusting the notes to fit my parts
- more tweaking of parts to make them flow a bit better, maybe add some layering and synths and production shit

IMO, using Riffler is no different - it’s basically like the step on Splice where I’m setting some kind of loose parameters on myself regarding the tempo/time sig/groove/tuning/key. And most importantly, from there, I’m deciding if I like the parts and adjusting them to become things that represent my vision.

Is a Daft Punk song any less original because they’re building ideas off other people’s samples? or a Kanye song? IMO, the most important things are lighting the spark for a new idea, and changing them until they represent your vision. To me it’s no different to listening to the radio for an hour or skimming spotify or youtube to get ideas. It just helps you decide on some parameters to write with.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I wrote 5 song ideas this week which is the most I’ve done for ages. None of them were using Riffler but I don’t see either approach as more or less genuine.

This week my method was;

- going on Splice, finding some percussion loop that caught my ear
- drag the loops into the DAW, sometimes adjust tempo a bit
- several times a day I’d force myself to write 10 different riffs over the loop, until I have like 30-40 different ideas. Some might be chords, some clean, just as many different ideas as I feel inspired by
- after a while I can sift through and arrange the loops into some kind of song structure
- at that point i’ll tweak riffs or work on transitions
- I’ll also program drum midi, which is generally using MIDI loops as a starting point and then adjusting the notes to fit my parts
- more tweaking of parts to make them flow a bit better, maybe add some layering and synths and production shit

IMO, using Riffler is no different - it’s basically like the step on Splice where I’m setting some kind of loose parameters on myself regarding the tempo/time sig/groove/tuning/key. And most importantly, from there, I’m deciding if I like the parts and adjusting them to become things that represent my vision.

Is a Daft Punk song any less original because they’re building ideas off other people’s samples? or a Kanye song? IMO, the most important things are lighting the spark for a new idea, and changing them until they represent your vision. To me it’s no different to listening to the radio for an hour or skimming spotify or youtube to get ideas. It just helps you decide on some parameters to write with.

I have no problem with you or others using it and I'm not even saying it's unethical really. If it makes your creation process easier or better in some way then use whatever tool you need. I'm just not going to use a tool like that personally.

 

[aerial7]

Music is a shared human experience.

If you listen to a piece of music and then find out it was computer-generated, you're going to think less of it. So maybe AI can write the inane, banal stuff that is the backing track of our lives...in stores and on-hold.....but I just don't believe that people will ever connect with machine-made music.

[And yet, I can accept that maybe I'm just an old man who's unprepared for the coming reality of massively devalued music produced by machines for AI avatars to fill VR arenas....in a timeline I just don't want to be a part of.]

 

[FuzzyAce]

.....but I just don't believe that people will ever connect with machine-made music.

They already have.
If they love what they hear and know it's AI generated then they are forming a trust or bond with the technology. Steady increments towards less human creation. Add to this AI in all other fields of life and...
Some people think this is a way to bring humanity closer though?

Has anybody ever watched The Terminator?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Probably makes no difference to the discussion but Riffler doesn’t use any AI or training or anything like that. They make quite a strong point on that.

But honestly, I love random stuff that’s out of my control - whether it’s accidentally stumbling on a riff, or using a sequencer modulated by a random wave, or even just fx that have a random chaotic nature to it. Often when writing and producing, I’m trying to do things “wrong” to land on happy accidents. All my favourite ideas are when I wasn’t forcing an idea, but that I land on by chance and evolve naturally.

Music (ideally) creates an emotional response from humans but it doesn’t have to be created with one - there’s plenty of electronic music that invokes emotion even though none of the sounds have been “performed”.

Something like Riffler to me is more like having a multi sided dice that will give you a few limitations to work with. Whether you like anything that comes out of it is determined by your own emotional response. And to do anything with it, you’d probably need to play it and perform it in some way. and when you do that, you’re probably going to put your own stamp on it

Loads of the Eno Oblique Strategies that people get giddy over are just as daft, but they’re just a starting point. You still inherently know if something is a good idea or if you keep trying.

 

[aerial7]

Yep, and it's a straight line from the following to The Terminator:

From Business Insider:

"effective accelerationism," the idea that technology should be developed to its fullest potential as fast as possible and with minimal or zero guardrails. In his manifesto, Andreessen calls it "techno-optimism."
I guess as ever, technology always outpaces our ability to fully comprehend it and manage it.

Apparently there are very "smart" people who were never taught the simple value of just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Yep, and it's a straight line from the following to The Terminator:

From Business Insider:


Apparently there are very "smart" people who were never taught the simple value of just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Yet isn’t that the premise most of use when gear shopping because we can?

 

[FuzzyAce]

Probably makes no difference to the discussion but Riffler doesn’t use any AI or training or anything like that. They make quite a strong point on that.

But honestly, I love random stuff that’s out of my control - whether it’s accidentally stumbling on a riff, or using a sequencer modulated by a random wave, or even just fx that have a random chaotic nature to it. Often when writing and producing, I’m trying to do things “wrong” to land on happy accidents. All my favourite ideas are when I wasn’t forcing an idea, but that I land on by chance and evolve naturally.

Music (ideally) creates an emotional response from humans but it doesn’t have to be created with one - there’s plenty of electronic music that invokes emotion even though none of the sounds have been “performed”.

Something like Riffler to me is more like having a multi sided dice that will give you a few limitations to work with. Whether you like anything that comes out of it is determined by your own emotional response. And to do anything with it, you’d probably need to play it and perform it in some way. and when you do that, you’re probably going to put your own stamp on it

Loads of the Eno Oblique Strategies that people get giddy over are just as daft, but they’re just a starting point. You still inherently know if something is a good idea or if you keep trying.

Sorry if I came off as an elitist or something. I love randomness, spontaneity too. There is beauty in that -- and sometimes that can be found in slicing and manipulation of audio. I totally get it, and do it. The AI topic just gets me on edge sometimes because I see where this is going.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Sorry if I came off as an elitist or something. I love randomness, spontaneity too. There is beauty in that -- and sometimes that can be found in slicing and manipulation of audio. I totally get it, and do it. The AI topic just gets me on edge sometimes because I see where this is going.

I didn’t take it negatively or elitist, was just curious if there was more to it or what the reasoning was.

I generally agree with you, although there are some aspects that may be interesting - like when i program drums, I get to a point where they’re maybe 80% there and the last 20% takes ages and I can’t be fucked. I’d love some assistance there to get it where I want it.

likewise with bass, I might put some placeholders in but I wouldn’t be averse to having some “suggestions” put in front of me, especially if I can steer where they go.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I didn’t take it negatively or elitist, was just curious if there was more to it or what the reasoning was.

I generally agree with you, although there are some aspects that may be interesting - like when i program drums, I get to a point where they’re maybe 80% there and the last 20% takes ages and I can’t be fucked. I’d love some assistance there to get it where I want it.

likewise with bass, I might put some placeholders in but I wouldn’t be averse to having some “suggestions” put in front of me, especially if I can steer where they go.

Sounds like you'd like Toontrack bass or something along those lines. There are times where I just play bass with a guitar because it's quick and easy, and then detune afterwards. It's useable in some cases but never sounds as cool. I always get more inspired when I play a real bass instead because then I'm thinking more like a bass player, which helps add character to a song.

 

[Orvillain]

Yep, and it's a straight line from the following to The Terminator:

From Business Insider:


Apparently there are very "smart" people who were never taught the simple value of just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

With that logic, humanity shouldn't have ever invented the hammer.

You really could make that argument, and following it through to its logical conclusion, it would perfectly hold.

Doesn't mean you should though

 

[FuzzyAce]

With that logic, humanity shouldn't have ever invented the hammer.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Sorry if I came off as an elitist or something. I love randomness, spontaneity too. There is beauty in that -- and sometimes that can be found in slicing and manipulation of audio. I totally get it, and do it. The AI topic just gets me on edge sometimes because I see where this is going.

These days what audio isn’t edited.
Look at the young bands with killin sound and video output at a NAMM Jan. Polyphia comes to mind. And I really dig them.

But more importantly what strikes as way funny is when the most popular packaging of “art” are tribute bands I’m not even sure it’s even craft.