Reverb & delay - Helix vs Fractal

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

One main reason I'm a Fractal user is that Cliff doesn't do "Legacy" anything.
When the amps are improved, they're all improved. When delays, drives, reverbs etc are improved, they're all improved.
Sure there are one off improvements because an issue was found in a specific block, (like the big spring reverb update), but the overarching philosophy is always improving everything.

 

[JiveTurkey]

The trope of "Helix sounds like pedals and Fractal sounds like racks" is tired AF but glaringly true to my ears. Always.

 

[ejecta]

The trope of "Helix sounds like pedals and Fractal sounds like racks" is tired AF but glaringly true to my ears. Always.

Tired things are tired because they are true.

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

The trope of "Helix sounds like pedals and Fractal sounds like racks" is tired AF but glaringly true to my ears. Always.

Just roll off a bunch of high end (clarity) on the Fractal.

Boom. Pedals.

 

[Frodebro]

The trope of "Helix sounds like pedals and Fractal sounds like racks" is tired AF but glaringly true to my ears. Always.

That’s how I’ve always felt about it as well, which explains why the signal chains I build in the Helix or Stomp XL are much more “pedalboard like” compared to the Bradshaw-esq insanity of the stuff I do in the Axe FX. I never thought of it as a better/worse thing, just different.

That’s why I’m planning on grabbing a Stadium to use along with the FM9. Link those two together and you can totally get yer freak on.

 

[JiveTurkey]

That’s how I’ve always felt about it as well, which explains why the signal chains I build in the Helix or Stomp XL are much more “pedalboard like” compared to the Bradshaw-esq insanity of the stuff I do in the Axe FX. I never thought of it as a better/worse thing, just different.

That’s why I’m planning on grabbing a Stadium to use along with the FM9. Link those two together and you can totally get yer freak on.

The thing about the Stadium that to me will probably be the most cool (beyond "oooooh touchscreen!") is how it will integrate with amps and aid in switching said amps.

 

[ejecta]

I never thought of it as a better/worse thing, just different.

That’s the way I look at all the top end modelers.

 

[mikah912]

One main reason I'm a Fractal user is that Cliff doesn't do "Legacy" anything.

I wouldn't say that. Plenty of legacy cabs are on my FM9 in the uh,.....Legacy cab bank.

Axe-FX II "relics' like Das Metal and FAS Buttery were dialed in by ear and exempt from the component/circuit/behavior-level upgrades that Cliff has done systemwide throughout the years.

Make no mistake, no one revises his work as often and to a more granular degree than Cliff. But he doesn't always throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[Lysander]

One main reason I'm a Fractal user is that Cliff doesn't do "Legacy" anything.
When the amps are improved, they're all improved. When delays, drives, reverbs etc are improved, they're all improved.

"Legacy" Helix blocks just means they're imported from a completely different, and deprecated, product line FWIW.

 

[Orvillain]

There's a goldilocks zone for reverb that I struggle to land in with both Helix and Fractal.

Helix == pretty low quality sounding to be honest, yes. Even the Dynamic algos. Very metallic and tricky to dial in.
Fractal == super smooth sounding, even when you cruft them up by lowering quality settings. Actually hard to get treble out of them, believe it or not.

I have a specific use case - reverb in front of my high-gain channels, with the mix kept fairly low, but not too low. Tone quite high so that it is treble-biased, and a long decay with some modulation. When I play tremolo stuff, this sounds utterly epic.

A lowly Boss RV-5 sounds amazing for it. So does the Meris MercuryX, and the UA Golden Reverberator. Quite a few other pedals are good for it too - especially older ones, for some reason.

Fractal sounds good, but is tricky to dial in, and there are so many modes and options that it is difficult to know where to start sometimes. And then when you change a model, you lose parameter settings you made, and so doing any effective A/B comparison becomes insanely annoying.

Overall... Helix can't really do it as good as the above options. I did stick with it for a long time, but was never 100% happy. It got me through lots of gigs, and I can't exactly complain. But if we're being tone nerds .... then yeah, Helix doesn't cut it for me. I'm really hoping Stadium improves things eventually.

 

[Dimiguitar]

For me it's a pain to dial in effects with the fractal, but I don't know anywhere near about effects than I do about amps. I remember it being easier with the helix but perhaps not quite as good sounding.

My favourite unit for effects (not counting drives) is the Kemper.

 

[mikah912]

The "Helix reverbs = metallic" thing just makes me scratch my head. Every one they've added since the Glitz/Plateaux/Double Tank set of reverbs has a high cut and/or damping parameter. Works great to remove any unwanted high end artifacts, but you can do it at a reasonable level that still preserves a good amount of treble content.

 

[Orvillain]

The "Helix reverbs = metallic" thing just makes me scratch my head. Every one they've added since the Glitz/Plateaux/Double Tank set of reverbs has a high cut and/or damping parameter. Works great to remove any unwanted high end artifacts, but you can do it at a reasonable level that still preserves a good amount of treble content.

Metallic != high-frequency content.

 

[dk_ace]

This sounds metallic?!

He’s got it set very dark there, darker than I like, but yes.

I don’t see the point of a big, affected reverb that is so dark you can’t hear it in a mix. If I have to make a reverb work that isn’t great though, that’s the best play.

D

 

[dk_ace]

The "Helix reverbs = metallic" thing just makes me scratch my head. Every one they've added since the Glitz/Plateaux/Double Tank set of reverbs has a high cut and/or damping parameter. Works great to remove any unwanted high end artifacts, but you can do it at a reasonable level that still preserves a good amount of treble content.

The best reverbs can be bright and sound great and not sound metallic. Sure, you can neuter it to remove the stuff that sounds bad on lesser reverbs. Dark things disappear in a band mix though. I don’t typically use things unless I want an audience to hear them.

D

 

[mikah912]

Metallic != high-frequency content.

These are all abstract descriptors, so I'll say that leaving it at 10Khz or above can sometimes sound metallic, or I can hear what I perceive as metallic on both the louder-picked notes and the trails/decay. Keeping it at 9Khz or just below makes the reverb sound warm, and - on more ambient decay/mix settings - cloudlike.

And to be clear, "warm" != dark or blurry or smudged.

That's what I wanted from the Helix dynamic reverbs, and that's what I got.

Fractal reverbs are fantastic, and often don't require any tweaking, but then again...there are a kabillion different algorithms. I love that! I just don't feel disadvantaged when using Helix reverbs, is all.

 

[Mikael Dez]

When I think of metallic sounding I either think a shimmer reverb or a thin, tinny sound (metallic) that I would associate with high frequencies. Legit question cuz I’m a noob but if the metallic sound isn’t coming from a frequency that can get tuned out, where would it come from

 

[Mikael Dez]

I have started using the crisscross delay in Helix based on some of y’all’s ravings about it and yes, it is the tits.

 

[Orvillain]

These are all abstract descriptors, so I'll say that leaving it at 10Khz or above can sometimes sound metallic, or I can hear what I perceive as metallic on both the louder-picked notes and the trails/decay. Keeping it at 9Khz or just below makes the reverb sound warm, and - on more ambient decay/mix settings - cloudlike.

And to be clear, "warm" != dark or blurry or smudged.

That's what I wanted from the Helix dynamic reverbs, and that's what I got.

Fractal reverbs are fantastic, and often don't require any tweaking, but then again...there are a kabillion different algorithms. I love that! I just don't feel disadvantaged when using Helix reverbs, is all.

When I say metallic, I mean you can hear the comb filtering going on in the feedback network. I'm not talking about 'tone' as such, I'm talking about the actual algorithmic quality. It is audible if you know what to listen for. You can hear a kind of echoey or delay character to the reverb tails, rather than a smooth wash. Sometimes you want one, sometimes you want the other.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

One of the characteristics of the HX Dynamic verbs I don't like, especially on the Hall, is the motion character that you just can't dial out no matter what you do. At lowest setting it still sounds lumpy and weird.